Only The Law Abiding

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

DOJ Second Amendment Section Extends Protections to Only ‘Law-Abiding American Citizens’ | The Reload

[Blackwater 53393]

On the surface, this sounds pretty good! A more specific definition of what is considered a law abiding citizen should be required.

 

Much of what Dhillon outlined is very positive!

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

Personally I don’t want CRIMINALS to have ANY “rights”, much less the right to a gun!!

[Still hand Bill]

27 minutes ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Personally I don’t want CRIMINALS to have ANY “rights”, much less the right to a gun!!

Honestly, that is a very slippery slope.  Most people break multiple laws every day.   Roll a stop sign, You are a criminal, speed, you are a criminal, doing something someone things is illegal should not remove any of your rights.  Imho You should only lose rights when you show you can not respect others rights.   

 

[Rip Snorter]

There was a guy named Beria - "Show me the man, I'll show you the crime."  Coming to a Blue state near you.

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

8 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

There was a guy named Beria - "Show me the man, I'll show you the crime."  Coming to a Blue state near you.

Sure. Stalin!!

What do you mean COMING?? It’s here!!

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

18 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Honestly, that is a very slippery slope.  Most people break multiple laws every day.   Roll a stop sign, You are a criminal, speed, you are a criminal, doing something someone things is illegal should not remove any of your rights.  Imho You should only lose rights when you show you can not respect others rights.   

 

COVICTED criminals!!

[Blackwater 53393]

People here illegally should NOT have all the same rights as those here legally! Humanitarian protections should be in place, but the right to bear arms, free education, government subsidies and government funded healthcare, (not including emergency medical care) should be reserved for legal occupants of the nation. Those not here legally should be properly sheltered and promptly transported to the border or, at their option, sent back to where they came from!

 

Too many immigrants have gone through the process of meeting the requirements for naturalization and sworn their allegiance to their new country to be disrespected by allowing illegal immigrants to bypass the system with real or imagined impunity!!

 

[El Chapo]

3 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Personally I don’t want CRIMINALS to have ANY “rights”, much less the right to a gun!!

 

Most people who lack lawful immigration status are not criminals in any sense of the word.  If they were, they would have been deported a long time ago.

 

Rights are not about having a certain status, they are about denying the government the ability to take them away.  Once you create categories of people with no "rights," you can bet that you are next.

 

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Too many immigrants have gone through the process of meeting the requirements for naturalization and sworn their allegiance to their new country to be disrespected by allowing illegal immigrants to bypass the system with real or imagined impunity!!

 

Citizenship is an entirely different category from immigration.  If it were up to me, we would abolish naturalization completely.  It's a farce to me, a person who comes from another country is never going to be loyal to ours, yet we create this fiction in our heads as if that's a reality.

 

Many, perhaps even most, of the undocumented, do not care at all about citizenship.  They come here to work and support their families, not to participate in civic life.  They are not jumping any line toward naturalization, because they don't care about citizenship at all.

Edited December 13, 2025 by El Chapo

[Eyesa Horg]

11 hours ago, Still hand Bill said:

Honestly, that is a very slippery slope.  Most people break multiple laws every day.   Roll a stop sign, You are a criminal, speed, you are a criminal, doing something someone things is illegal should not remove any of your rights.  Imho You should only lose rights when you show you can not respect others rights.   

 

I wouldn't consider someone rolling thru a stop sign a criminal per se. Maybe didn't follow the rules of a privilege, but not a criminal.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

I see I need to post some links to some natural herbs that reduce blood pressure.

Just joking. Kind of. 

I enjoy a passionate discussion of issues as long as it remains courteous. And this one has.

@El Chapo I must respectfully disagree regarding the loyalty of immigrants to America compared to their country of origin. I only have firsthand knowledge of one individual. My paternal grandfather who came here from Italy in the early 1900's. He embraced the concepts of freedom and citizenship and had his certificate of naturalization framed (I still have it). Every federal holiday the flag was proudly displayed on his front porch and local Fourth of July celebrations made him misty eyed. Actually, most of the European immigrants during that time were eager to be called "Americans." I have anecdotal evidence from other family members, but I saw grandpa's patriotism first-hand.

Immigrants today? Well, that's a crap shoot. It's hard to say the way the media throws constant reality curve balls to the public. So, I get where you're coming from. But beware of using the broad brush. Paint gets everywhere.

[Texas Joker]

13 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Personally I don’t want CRIMINALS to have ANY “rights”, much less the right to a gun!!

Should we remove their rights to free speech, exercise of religion or self incrimination?

 

They are either rehabilitated and thus should be afforded all civil rights or not rehabilitated and should still be incarcerated.

 

There is no historical precedent for removal of rights after the punishment term is served. That was cooked up in the early 20th century.

[Blackwater 53393]

El Chapo! I will respectfully disagree. Immigration should be orderly and legal! If one has entered this country illegally, then they HAVE INDEED committed a crime!! In nearly EVERY country in the world, we have consulates where one can get to seek asylum or initiate legal proceedings for immigration!!  My dad’s parents did it. Literally MILLIONS of others did it too!!

 

The illegals we are encountering today have chosen to circumvent the immigration process and violate our laws from the beginning! They don’t care to do what’s required to be here legally. They only wish to come here and reap the benefits they don’t have wherever they come from without doing anything to qualify for those benefits. Many of them skirt the legal system entirely, dodging responsibility for their actions and committing criminal acts in conjunction with foreign cartels and criminal organizations! Then they simply relocate to another part of the country to avoid prosecution and penalties and do the same thing again!!

 

There are legal immigrants who have gone through the process in most of my family branches and they are hard working, law abiding, productive CITIZENS!  I have nieces and nephews who were born in Mexico and they are more loyal and patriotic to our nation than nearly any of our “natural born” relatives! 
 

I’M VERY PROUD OF THEM AND THEIR MOTHER!!

 

I watched them go through the process. It wasn’t easy, but neither was it all that difficult and in the end, they aren’t criminals and they ARE citizens of this nation!!

 

If they can do it, everyone who comes here should do it as well!!

 

Edited December 13, 2025 by Blackwater 53393

[Eyesa Horg]

^^↑↑ +1

My ancestors did it as well. My German neighbor just got her citizenship as well! Although she said it cost her a lot of money! But bottom line she did all legal and now has earned her PHD too. He got his citizenship and PHD several years ago. They are now both productive American citizens. What sucks is she, being if Indian decent with both German and American citizenship is/has been  a target of ICE in Chicago.

Being brown with black hair has not been in her favor. Apparently having a passport and citizenship papers don't matter.  I really feel for her as they are both wonderful folks and great neighbors when they are here.

But don't jump the fence and expect to get all the rights that we have worked and fought for.

[Blackwater 53393]

I would add that my father, my grandfathers, and many of my uncles and aunts fought for, or worked, to defend this country and our freedoms for the future of their children and families!

 

It’s a gift for those of us who were fortunate enough to be born here, paid for in blood and sweat.

 

To just give those rights and freedoms to people who VIOLATE our borders and thus our laws throws dirt and spits on these sacrifices!!

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

20 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Personally I don’t want CRIMINALS to have ANY “rights”, much less the right to a gun!!

 

Thank you, Lavrenti Pavlovich. 

[Blackwater 53393]

Restoration of rights is an entirely separate issue!  It is not productive to argue, debate, or discuss it in this thread.

[Still hand Bill]

On 12/12/2025 at 11:00 PM, El Chapo said:

 

 

Citizenship is an entirely different category from immigration.  If it were up to me, we would abolish naturalization completely.  It's a farce to me, a person who comes from another country is never going to be loyal to ours, yet we create this fiction in our heads as if that's a reality.

 

Many, perhaps even most, of the undocumented, do not care at all about citizenship.  They come here to work and support their families, not to participate in civic life.  They are not jumping any line toward naturalization, because they don't care about citizenship at all.

I know several naturalized citizens. They are all very grateful and proud to now be called a us citizen.  They left their home countries due to being persecuted for being Christians.  One of them had to leave everything behind and completely start over.  They are also very much against illegals.  
 

Other countries are quite strict about immigration and visa’s.  Unfortunately the USA doesn’t have desire to follow suite.  having been in China a lot, they don’t mess around with foreigners.  If you get close to overstaying your visa they will politely ask you to leave.  I also had a friend who wanted to move to Australia (married to an Australian), but couldn’t as he didn’t have a college degree.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

Harmeet Dhillon is a bright spot in our government. I follow her on Facebook and X, she's a no nonsense lawyer and she's pro gun!