45 Cowboy Special in rifle

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

45 Cowboy Special brass & 130 gr "barnstormer" bullets.

Anyone run them in a '73? If so, who did the lifter and how well do they work?

Edited December 12, 2025 by Beartrap SASS#57175

[Griff]

13 minutes ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

45 Cowboy Special brass & 130 gr "barmstormer" brass.

Anyone run them in a '73? If so, who did the lifter and how well do they work?

I don't... I do run a Cowboy 45 Special and 160 grain bullets in my 1860 Henry.   The 130s are too short to work with the ramp on the front of my carrier in THAT rifle.  My early production (1986), '73 has a longer ramp, and they'll work in it.  My newer (2014) production '73 has the shorter ramp, so no joy there.

 

Yes, I get rather pedantic over using the proper nomenclature for cartridges.  Mostly out of respect for the cartridge's creator... even if he wasn't the 1st to so modify the 45 Colt case.  (arguable)...   But, he named it... and ordered the 1st batch of brass with that headstamp from Starline.  A quite sizeable investment.  

Edited December 12, 2025 by Griff

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

I don't... I do run a Cowboy 45 Special and 160 grain bullets in my 1860 Henry.   The 130s are too short to work with the ramp on the front of my carrier in THAT rifle.  My early production (1986), '73 has a longer ramp, and they'll work in it.  My newer (2014) production '73 has the shorter ramp, so no joy there.

 

Yes, I get rather pedantic over using the proper nomenclature for cartridges.  Mostly out of respect for the cartridge's creator... even if he wasn't the 1st to so modify the 45 Colt case.  (arguable)...   But, he named it... and ordered the 1st batch of brass with that headstamp from Starline.  A quite sizeable investment.  

My apologies for such an egregious action. I'll try not to do it again mommy.

I didn't ask about Henry's or 160 gr bullets, but thanks anyway for that irrelevant information.

[Griff]

18 minutes ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

I didn't ask about Henry's or 160 gr bullets, but thanks anyway for that irrelevant information.

Not irrelevant info, since the internals of the Uberti Henry, '66 & '73 are identical...  (i.e., the same "go fast" parts all work in any 'o 'em), their operating characteristics are virtually the same.  But, individual examples of 'em all will vary, thus require individual tuning..  As said above, my 1986 production Uberti 1873 will feed a 130 barnstormer in a C45S case with the "cowboy" carrier in place.  But, neither my 2008 production Uberti 1860 or 2014 Uberti 1873 will, due to the steeper ramp angle.  .  the carrier to run this cartridge is available from Longhunter Supply.  Or direct from:  Bill English aka Happy Trails SASS#4461 to purchase this fine carrier.  Bill English - billenglish@cox.net or 401-864-2348.  is your friend.  

[Choctaw Jack]

+1 to the carrier from The Smith Shop.

I have 2 of them , and they work perfectly. I use a 160 grain RNFP exclusively, but I'm sure the Barnstormer will work fine.

Choctaw

[Tall John]

So, if one switches to this carrier then am I correct that 45 Colt ammo can no longer be used?

[Lucky R. K.]

8 minutes ago, Tall John said:

So, if one switches to this carrier then am I correct that 45 Colt ammo can no longer be used?

That is correct. In order to shoot 45 Colt, you would have to install the original carrier.

Lucky 😁

[Sarge]

I use the Smith Shop carriers in two rifles.  I run the 160 gr RNFP from Scarlet in my rifles and pistols.  Don't care for the Barnstormer. It did not feed well in my rifles and doesn't run well in my Dillon 550.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

 

 

The Smith Shop is closed but Longhunter still has these on his website.

 

https://www.longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=456

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

You know, if you wanna use a shorter cartridge in your .45 Colt rifles, and don't want to modify the gun, try .45 Schofield.   I shot a clean match running it though my AWA Lightning.  I've tested it in my Armi San Marco 92, and it works there too.  It also works in my Uberti 66, so it'll probably work in a 73 or a Henry.   It won't work in the Uberti Burgess though.   

Nothing against the C45S, it's a great round for use in pistols.   But is it really worth the effort of modifying your rifle to get it to work, especially when you have to unmodify it use the original cartridge?

And this comes from the guy who "invented" a new cartridge by trimming .45-70 back to .45 Colt length and calling it the .45-45.   I created it for use as low power plinking round in single shot rifles.   I was oddly surprised to find that it works in my Winchester 86, as long as you don't try to run it too fast.   Won't run in a Colt Lighting or an Uberti 76, but that's not why I made it up.  But I can't shake the desire to somehow have a custom revolver made for the cartridge...  

[Leroy Luck]

8 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

But I can't shake the desire to somehow have a custom revolver made for the cartridge...  

 

Magnum Research makes the BFR chambered in 45-70. Although it is a 5 shot cylinder. I’ve got one myself and it’s pretty fun to shoot. 

[Choctaw Jack]

H.K. ,

In answer to your question, is it worth modifying your rifle to shoot a shorter cartridge, IMHO, yes.

All of the advantages of using the shorter cartridge in revolvers carry over to the rifle. The big plus ,of course, is that if you are using it in your pistols it's much more convenient to have the same cartridge in your rifle.

Choctaw

[Lead Monger]

I run the modified carrier in a Uberti 66 chambered in 44 special. Allows me to use 44 S&W Russian cartridges in the rifle. Use the same cartridge in my open tops and it’s very convenient.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I use on of Bill's Carrie's in my 66 44 special. 

Now I can run 44 Russian .

I load and shoot the same load as the original flat rimfire 44 cartridge. 

[Tall John]

My only issue with modifying my rifle is that it’s a Jim Bowie SASSmodified. ‘73.  Not sure I want to disrupt his magic.  Recoil in the rifle is not an issue for me and my rifles will always be faster than me anyway!

[Leroy Luck]

2 minutes ago, Tall John said:

My only issue with modifying my rifle is that it’s a Jim Bowie SASSmodified. ‘73.  Not sure I want to disrupt his magic.  Recoil in the rifle is not an issue for me and my rifles will always be faster than me anyway!

The carrier is a drop in replacement, with only minor modifications made to the side of the bolt to help clear the flipper on the carrier. 
 

I haven’t noticed any difference in the operation of the three rifles I’ve “converted”. I sometimes switch the carrier out to shoot 45 Colt, but rarely do. 

[Choctaw Jack]

27 minutes ago, Leroy Luck said:

The carrier is a drop in replacement, with only minor modifications made to the side of the bolt to help clear the flipper on the carrier. 
 

I haven’t noticed any difference in the operation of the three rifles I’ve “converted”. I sometimes switch the carrier out to shoot 45 Colt, but rarely do. 

When I received my first Smith Shop carrier, the instructions said to take a few thousand off of the bolt.

When I got the second one, there wasn't any instructions to do so, and it runs fine as is.

Choctaw

 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

5 hours ago, Choctaw Jack said:

H.K. ,

In answer to your question, is it worth modifying your rifle to shoot a shorter cartridge, IMHO, yes.

All of the advantages of using the shorter cartridge in revolvers carry over to the rifle. The big plus ,of course, is that if you are using it in your pistols it's much more convenient to have the same cartridge in your rifle.

Choctaw

 

But, that's my point.  You don't have to modify your rifle to use a shorter cartridge.   The .45 Schofield will work with no modifications, and has the benefits of being shorter.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

6 hours ago, Leroy Luck said:

 

Magnum Research makes the BFR chambered in 45-70. Although it is a 5 shot cylinder. I’ve got one myself and it’s pretty fun to shoot. 

Yeah, I've seen that.   To me, that extra long cylinder just looks wrong.   My "theory" is to use a Freedom Arms revolver, the one with he more or less traditional fixed sights, bore out the cylinder, install a properly bored barrel or bore out and line the existing one to .458".  (A 10" barrel is preferred.  Not sure if I want octagon or round.)  As far as finish is concerned, if I modify an already existing gun, it doesn't matter.  If they'll do it for me at the factory, I'll tell them to leave it in the white cuz it'll be going to Turnbull for a traditional finish.   Maybe even engraving.  Hey, if I am gonna do this, I may as well go all the way!

[Choctaw Jack]

2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

But, that's my point.  You don't have to modify your rifle to use a shorter cartridge.   The .45 Schofield will work with no modifications, and has the benefits of being shorter.

I shot .45 Colt for many years, so I have a pretty good supply of Colt brass that I cut down to C45S. The "tooling" I needed to cut down the brass was minimal( a$20 ,2 inch chopsaw from HF and a jig i made myself), along with powder, primers, and dies I already owned made gearing up to load for the shorter round pretty affordable.

If you dont already shoot Schofield in your pistols,you would have to buy brass anyway, so it just depends on your situation as to whether or not it would be worth buying the carrier ( and it was considerably cheaper to have my carrier converted), or to set up to load for another cartridge.

Lots of things to consider.

Choctaw

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

To return to the OPs original question:

 

Less than harmonious.  I'm kinda the Poster Kid for both, the Cowboy 45 Special and the .45 Barnstormer.  I worked closely with Adirondack Jack as he and I were developing short cartridges in parallel.  We also talked at great length during his development of the Barnstormer.  The Barnstormer was developed as a PISTOL bullet, in the same weight range as the more common .38s, and his goal was to give .45 shooters similar recoil and to compete with the 125Gr 38 crowd.  He succeeded.

 

We were, at the time, unable to get the Barnstormer to run reliably in Toggle Link rifles.  The bullet is literally a Wadcutter with a great hollow base.  In a Toggle Link Rifle, it runs smack into the breach end of the chamber and stops dead.  toggle Link rifles require a nice rounded ogive or truncated cone shape to feed.  That was my exact experience with ALL my toggle Link rifles.  The Uberti Replica rifles are identical in the lock works.  The 1873, the 1866 and the Henry are identical internally and in functional operation.  If someone has a toggle link rifle that will reliably digest barnstormers when RUNNING FAST, it is a very unique rifle indeed.  To function properly, the Toggle Link rifle requires a RNFP or Truncated Cone bullet to run into the chamber breach.  Semi-Wadcutters and Barnstormers DO NOT play well in toggle link rifles.  AJ did extensive modifications on Marlins to get them to run C45S cartridges (with RNFP) but I do not remember if he ever got the Marlin to run with Barnstormers.  I believe his modifications gave rise to the now famous or infamous Widdermajic.  Your Mileage May Vary.

 

ADDN'L:  The 45 Schofield, while shorter than 45 Colt, DOES NOT offer the same level of internal volume for running reduced powder charges with optimal combustion.  The 45 Schofield works, it just doesn't not work as well as C45S for light loads and light bullets.

Edited December 13, 2025 by Colorado Coffinmaker
fix'd it - twice

[Sarge]

10 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 

 

The Smith Shop is closed but Longhunter still has these on his website.

 

https://www.longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=456

Last I heard, Bill had retained the sale of the carriers.  This was about a year ago.  Do you know if that status has changed?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

No.  I saw Bill English's phone number on a couple of sites.

 

https://the-online-outpost-licensing-corporation.myshopify.com/pages/cowboy-45-special-carrier?srsltid=AfmBOoq2gOgqoo0ZGX27XFQgEOn0Br7ipqC_zN7OQrIMDqwTbC1gLq6k

Edited December 13, 2025 by Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933

[Widder, SASS #59054]

3 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

To function properly, the Toggle Link rifle requires a RNFP or Truncated Cone bullet to run into the chamber breach.  Semi-Wadcutters and Barnstormers DO NOT play well in toggle link rifles.  AJ did extensive modifications on Marlins to get them to run C45S cartridges (with RNFP) but I do not remember if he ever got the Marlin to run with Barnstormers.  I believe his modifications gave rise to the now famous or infamous Widdermajic.  Your Mileage May Vary.

 

ADDN'L:  The 45 Schofield, while shorter than 45 Colt, DOES NOT offer the same level of internal volume for running reduced powder charges with optimal combustion.  The 45 Schofield works, it just doesn't not work as well as C45S for light loads and light bullets.

 

Howdy CC.

Here's the story as it pertains to the Widdermajik and Adirondack Jack's C45S cartridge, including the Barnstormer bullets.

 

When I modified the Marlin 1894 to run the C45S cartridge WITHOUT it being a short stroked system,  I called AJ on the phone

and informed him of my mod..... A non-short stroke Marlin running the C45S with perfect success.

 

I then told him that I could switch carriers and run .45 Colt as desired.  AJ said basically..."boy, it would be nice if you could flip

a switch somehow and make it run both the Colt and C45S without changing carriers.

I said......"give me a couple days and I'll call you back.   I think I can do it".

 

About 2 days later, I called AJ back and said the NEW mod will be called the Widdermajik, and I would spell 'WiddermAJik' using his

initials in the name.  I told him how to set it up and he proceeded to build his own WiddermAJik and make a video of such.

 

The success was made by building a 'timing curve' (or dwell) in the timing ramp on the carrier.  And the rest is history.

The Widdermajik will run everything from an empty C45S piece of brass all the up to a 300 grain 45 Colt round

interchangeably.  Just shove whatever ammo ya want in the loading gate for 10 various rounds and fire away.

 

Thanks CC for bringing it up.   In reality, I've probably only set up about 6-8 of these rifles and I've helped SLATER (Slaters In-House-Guns)

set one up this past summer.

 

EDIT: the standard calibers like .32, .38. 44 and 45, are called 'Widdermatic'.   The Duel cartridge of C45S and .45 Colt

are called 'Widdermajik'.

 

..........Widder

 

Edited December 13, 2025 by Widder, SASS #59054

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Thanks Widder.  I knew I was inna ball park somewhere with the WiddermAJic.  Been a while and I have the memory of a Gnat.  I remember (Vaguely) all the stuff you and AJ were doing with the Marlin but the Toggle rifles were/are much more finicky even though they are a captive feeding system.

 

Way Back inna Wabac (thank you Sherman and the Perfesser) I seem to remember seeing video of (I believe) both You and AJ running The Fish with C45S and 45 Colt cartridges all mix'd inna magazine and wishing I could do dat wid my '66s and Henrys.

 

My current Main Match  handguns are all .45s and I run C45S cases and Barnstormers exclusively with APP.  Capitol FUN you betcha.

[Don Jorge]

How well do the modified carriers, as shown above, function in a 1873 (made for a 45 Colt, of course)?  

Would using the c45s have less blowback than using a 45 Colt?

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Don Jorge

 

the modified carriers run quite well.  I can run C45S through my Toggle Link rifles every bit as fast as a 38/357 with the right projectiles.  The Blow-Back is relative to your propellant and your powder charge.  Generally speaking, the Blow-By is going to be less, however it's still going to be there.  Blow-By is less of a problem with smokeless than Black Powder or APP.  Chamber dimensions and the failure of straight wall pistol cases to expand result in Blow-By.

 

Just to address Blow-By, there are only two methods to fix Blow-By.  First for 45 Colt is to anneal 45 Colt cases so they expand and seal the chamber.  I also anneal C45S cases I run in my toggle Link rifles.  Second, carefully run 44-40 cases thru your 45 Colt dies, load .45 projectiles (they will look wonky until fire-formed then substitute your fire formed cases.  44-40 fire-form'd to 45 colt will run as clean as OEM 44-40 does.

[Don Jorge]

C C,

Thanks for the info.  Now, I have choices!  

For the c45s, can one use a 200 grain bullet?  Using the modified carrier is tempting.

For using the .44-40, do you just load them as though they were a .45 Colt, they keep the brass for the rifle?

I should say that I am interested in using it for Wild Bunch, so a 150 power factor might help regardless of which of the two I use.

In the past, with a 160 PF, there was still noticeable blow by using .45 Colt and 200 gr bullets

[Griff]

I run a Marlin 1894 for WB using C45S and a 200 grain bullet.  They run great... I can't run 160s, because of the shorter OAL.  In the toggle link, I can run either because the ramp on the carrier pushes the partially exposed round back in the magazine as the carrier rises.

Edited December 14, 2025 by Griff

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

BEARTRAP!!  

 

See My added post "Part Deux"

 

Oh, there is only one "Modified Carrier" and it's the Smith Shop Carrier.

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

Interesting thread. I run Cowboy 45 Specials with 170 grain bullets in my pistols (my arthritis loves them) but I personally don't see a point in running the Cowboy 45 Specials through my .45 Colt 73. But I'm not the OP, and if he wants to run those darling little suckers in his rifle, more power to him. I'm just too lazy to do that much work on my rifle...

[Tall John]

On 12/12/2025 at 6:43 PM, Choctaw Jack said:

I shot .45 Colt for many years, so I have a pretty good supply of Colt brass that I cut down to C45S. The "tooling" I needed to cut down the brass was minimal( a$20 ,2 inch chopsaw from HF and a jig i made myself), along with powder, primers, and dies I already owned made gearing up to load for the shorter round pretty affordable.

If you dont already shoot Schofield in your pistols,you would have to buy brass anyway, so it just depends on your situation as to whether or not it would be worth buying the carrier ( and it was considerably cheaper to have my carrier converted), or to set up to load for another cartridge.

Lots of things to consider.

Choctaw

Please post a picture of your chop saw/jig set up.

[Lucky R. K.]

On 12/13/2025 at 5:50 PM, Don Jorge said:

For using the .44-40, do you just load them as though they were a .45 Colt, they keep the brass for the rifle?

 

Bill's carrier works just fine in my 1860 44-40 Uberti Henry. The carrier doesn't care whether it is handling .44 or .45 caliber brass You can take .44 Magnum brass, trim to .45 ACP length and load with your favorite powder and a 200 grain Mav Dutchman bullet. As The Maker of Coffins would say, "It works a Treat".

Lucky 😁

[Tall John]

So all it seems that AJ and many who followed recommend the 

 

Hornady Custom Grade .45 ACP/AR/WIN Titanium Nitride 3-Die Set #546554.

 

is there any reason why a set of Lee Carbide dies for the same calibers wouldn’t work equally as well?

 

used Hornady set is about $50 vs $30 for a set of Lee Dies

[Eyesa Horg]

20 minutes ago, Tall John said:

So all it seems that AJ and many who followed recommend the 

 

Hornady Custom Grade .45 ACP/AR/WIN Titanium Nitride 3-Die Set #546554.

 

is there any reason why a set of Lee Carbide dies for the same calibers wouldn’t work equally as well?

 

used Hornady set is about $50 vs $30 for a set of Lee Dies

Tall John, my concern with an ACP die is that ACPs are tapered and use a tapered crimp. Not sure, but I think you would need to shorten a colt die to crimp the short brass. I've heard that an Redding 45 Autorim crimp die is the answer. I use an Dillon SDB loader so I made a crimp die from a colt due by shortening it. I use my ACP seating die and everything else colt.

I've also seen a Lee set that said it was for ACP and Autorim. But, don't know if it has a different piece depending on which case.