Does cowboy shooting affect target shooting?

[Rye Miles #13621]

I’ve been doing some target shooting and a couple different modern shooting venues. I use a 9mm with a red dot, one without and a .22 semi auto. I’m used to pointing and shooting like we do in cowboy shooting. I have a hard time slowing down and concentrating on accuracy. I know the guns are totally different, triggers etc. but does cowboy shooting affect your ability to slow down and aim? Just wondering "………….🤔 

[Michigan Slim]

It certainly did with a handgun. Faster and quicker to the next target. Not with a rifle. I'm usually sighting in for hunting so slow is the name of the game. Hard to rush a two or three hundred yard shot.

[Rip Snorter]

IMHO, both SASS and CFD can be negative s in respect to Bullseye.  Speed is great but it is essential to hit the target every time.  You can't miss fast enough to win (or save your life in a real situation.)

[Chantry]

No, but aiming at SASS targets is a good reason why I'll never be a really fast shooter.  My dislike of practice is another reason

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Why I won't shoot Wild Bunch. 

Starting with an empty 1911 chamber is ridiculous! 

Plus, it goes against all of my training and muscle memory. 

[Doc Shapiro]

You're thinking about it wrong.  It's not about "slowing down and aiming".  It's about seeing what you need to make each shot.  Exactly the  same as Cowboy Action.  With Cowboy Action, you don't need to see much to get a hit.  With bullseye type shooting you need to see a much clearer sight picture.

 

The only difference is what you need to see to make each shot.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Doc Shapiro said:

You're thinking about it wrong.  It's not about "slowing down and aiming".  It's about seeing what you need to make each shot.  Exactly the  same as Cowboy Action.  With Cowboy Action, you don't need to see much to get a hit.  With bullseye type shooting you need to see a much clearer sight picture.

 

The only difference is what you need to see to make each shot.

I disagree I think it takes a little longer to get a good sight picture and time to concentrate on your trigger. At least for me it does. Cowboy shooting is point and shoot IMHO.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for Lumpy Gritz - Absolutely

 

PLUS ONE for Rye - It does take more time for the sight picture and trigger control.

[Doc Shapiro]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I disagree I think it takes a little longer to get a good sight picture and time to concentrate on your trigger. At least for me it does. Cowboy shooting is point and shoot IMHO.

 

It does take more time, but not much more.  But it's all in how you think about it.  The thought "slow down" causes you do to everything slow, but still not see what you need.  The thought "see what is needed" will put your head in the right frame to actually focus to see what you need to make the shot.

[Pat Riot]

It screwed me up for target shooting, big time. 
 

4 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Why I won't shoot Wild Bunch. 

Starting with an empty 1911 chamber is ridiculous! 

Plus, it goes against all of my training and muscle memory. 

I won’t bother with it for several reasons and that is one on the list. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

It does take more time, but not much more.  But it's all in how you think about it.  The thought "slow down" causes you do to everything slow, but still not see what you need.  The thought "see what is needed" will put your head in the right frame to actually focus to see what you need to make the shot.

It takes more time and that’s exactly my point! I’m so used to trying to shoot fast that I have a hard time slowing down to acquire a good aim for target shooting. That’s all I meant!

[Doc Shapiro]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

It takes more time and that’s exactly my point! I’m so used to trying to shoot fast that I have a hard time slowing down to acquire a good aim for target shooting. That’s all I meant!

 

You have missed one of the fundamentals required for competitive shooting.  See what you need to see to make each shot.  In many shots (the vast majority of CAS), that's very little.  For then 10in target at 18 yards for a bonus, that's a lot more.  This is a very useful thing to learn.

 

Put it on a clock.  The difference is very small.

[Rye Miles #13621]

4 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

You have missed one of the fundamentals required for competitive shooting.  See what you need to see to make each shot.  In many shots (the vast majority of CAS), that's very little.  For then 10in target at 18 yards for a bonus, that's a lot more.  This is a very useful thing to learn.

 

Put it on a clock.  The difference is very small.

I disagree! The difference is huge! You are missing my point all together. I don’t know how else to explain it to you! 🙄

[Stump Water]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I’m so used to trying to shoot fast that I have a hard time slowing down to acquire a good aim for target shooting. That’s all I meant!

 

I'll wager that when that 6" knockdown plate shows up in a CAS match you do slow down and use the sights*.

 

* Versus "front sight, front sight front sight" when the targets are "normal" CAS sized.

[Rye Miles #13621]

4 minutes ago, Stump Water said:

 

I'll wager that when that 6" knockdown plate shows up in a CAS match you do slow down and use the sights*.

 

* Versus "front sight, front sight front sight" when the targets are "normal" CAS sized.

Yep definitely but those don’t show up very often.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

If I understand DOC S. correctly, I agree with him.

 

I been 'actively' shooting since 1973.   Since the beginning, I've focused my attention on the front sight.   Better put, I've focused

on the front sight in relation to my rear sight, regardless of using an expensive front/rear sight combo or just the front/rear groove of

a Vaq single action.  

 

Now, I do shoot a little quicker with my Cowboy guns (.32 Rugers, .357's and .45's) but that's because my 'other' handguns are big

magnums......  .44's, hot .45 Colt loads,  .460 and 500 S&W mags.  

 

Even in my 'plinking' sessions, I use the same principle in front/rear sight allightment, which includes two real nice Volquarsen Scorpions

and a great S&W model 41 in .22 LR.

 

Milage varies.

 

..........Widder

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

9 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

If I understand DOC S. correctly, I agree with him.

 

I been 'actively' shooting since 1973.   Since the beginning, I've focused my attention on the front sight.   Better put, I've focused

on the front sight in relation to my rear sight, regardless of using an expensive front/rear sight combo or just the front/rear groove of

a Vaq single action.  

 

Now, I do shoot a little quicker with my Cowboy guns (.32 Rugers, .357's and .45's) but that's because my 'other' handguns are big

magnums......  .44's, hot .45 Colt loads,  .460 and 500 S&W mags.  

 

Even in my 'plinking' sessions, I use the same principle in front/rear sight allightment, which includes two real nice Volquarsen Scorpions

and a great S&W model 41 in .22 LR.

 

Milage varies.

 

..........Widder

 

All I’m saying is I have to slow down to do target shooting with modern guns. I’m so used to trying to shoot fast with my cowboy guns that it’s a little difficult to slow down to acquire a good sight picture to get in that bullseye! 🎯 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

@Doc Shapiro. I get exactly what you’re saying! The two books that helped me be as lucky as I was in cowboy and Wild Bunch. The reason I have a couple copies of both and loan them out. 
And to throw gasoline onto a few fires… The “front sight! front sight!” Thing people often say getting ready to shoot? Hog wash! You should be saying “ Trigger Trigger Trigger”! You can spend all day lining up the sights on target, which your brain already knows what that should look like, and then jerk the trigger, you’re likely gonna miss.

Learn to properly manipulate the trigger when your brain tells your finger to pull said trigger. Whether it’s a controlled slap of the trigger, as Rob Leatham talks about or a gentle press on the bullseye range.

[Doc Shapiro]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I disagree! The difference is huge! You are missing my point all together. I don’t know how else to explain it to you! 🙄

 

No, I get what you're saying.  You seem to be completely missing my point, and I don't know how else to explain it to you either.  But I'll leave it at that.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

10 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

No, I get what you're saying.  You seem to be completely missing my point, and I don't know how else to explain it to you either.  But I'll leave it at that.  

Sounds good, have a good night!

[Rye Miles #13621]

27 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

@Doc Shapiro. I get exactly what you’re saying! The two books that helped me be as lucky as I was in cowboy and Wild Bunch. The reason I have a couple copies of both and loan them out. 
And to throw gasoline onto a few fires… The “front sight! front sight!” Thing people often say getting ready to shoot? Hog wash! You should be saying “ Trigger Trigger Trigger”! You can spend all day lining up the sights on target, which your brain already knows what that should look like, and then jerk the trigger, you’re likely gonna miss.

Learn to properly manipulate the trigger when your brain tells your finger to pull said trigger. Whether it’s a controlled slap of the trigger, as Rob Leatham talks about or a gentle press on the bullseye range.

 

I agree and there’s a big difference in triggers. As you know our SAA’s have a completely different trigger than for example a Canik, CZ or Glock. It’s an adjustment.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

1 minute ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I agree and there’s a big difference in triggers. Our SAA’s have a different trigger than for example a Canik, CZ or Glock. 

And Rob shoots a 1911…. But if you can shoot, you can shoot.

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

And Rob shoots a 1911…. But if you can shoot, you can shoot.

 

Yea and the 1911 has a very similar trigger to the SAA’s. I shoot both just fine but my original point was it takes a little bit more time to shoot bullseye than it does to just hit a steel target anywhere. 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

9 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Yea and the 1911 has a very similar trigger to the SAA’s. I shoot both just fine but my original point was it takes a little bit more time to shoot bullseye than it does to just hit a steel target anywhere. 

But as I said, your brain sees a sight a picture and tells your finger to manipulate the trigger. Doesn’t matter what kind.
If you can shoot, you can shoot.

If you can’t, you claim muscle memory, rules, targets too small, targets too far, have to start hammer down on an empty chamber, etc. etc. etc.

Hell, just blame the internet. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

But as I said, your brain sees a sight a picture and tells your finger to manipulate the trigger. Doesn’t matter what kind.
If you can shoot, you can shoot.

If you can’t, you claim muscle memory, rules, targets too small, targets too far, have to start hammer down on an empty chamber, etc. etc. etc.

Hell, just blame the internet. 

I’m not blaming anything I’m just saying that it takes a little more time to aim for bullseye shooting than it does for cowboy ! I don’t know why that’s so hard to understand! Believe me I can shoot just fine. I’m not certainly not the best but I can hold my own. 

[Rip Snorter]

Rapid fire, Bullseye, 5 rounds in 7 seconds.

[Rye Miles #13621]

4 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Rapid fire, Bullseye, 5 rounds in 7 seconds.

Never tried a timed bullseye, sounds like a challenge!

[Rip Snorter]

2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Never tried a timed bullseye, sounds like a challenge!

Lots of info online, rules & regs.  If you have a club or range with Bullseye near, they usually welcome tryers - one gun even, in the old days.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

Just now, Rip Snorter said:

Lots of info online, rules & regs.  If you have that I know  Bullseye a club or range with Bullseye near, they usually welcome tryers - one gun even, in the old days.  

We do the Rimfire challenge, pistol and rifles) we also do Man on Man knockdown targets., a 3 gun event, cowboy and Wild Bunch. No clubs with Bullseye that I know of. I got to 4 different clubs that shoot cowboy. The indoor range nearby has a target shoot but it’s not timed. 50 feet any handgun you want to use. 9 targets 5 shots on each target. 🎯 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I recall a meeting with Tex, SASS #4. As editor of The Chronicle he said "Cowboy Shooting is Illeqal even in Texas".

 

 

 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

28 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

I recall a meeting with Tex, SASS #8 I think. As editor of The Chronicle he said "Cowboy Shooting is Illeqal even in Texas".

Tex is #4.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

30 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Tex is #4.

thanks, I'm going to correct it.

[buffalo chip jed]

I shoot trap with shotguns and I have noticed I have to really tell myself to slow down and concentrate when I shoot compared to SASS. but I have found I can shoot both decently well and I have a good time with both which is all that matters to me. 😁

 

Buffalo chip Jed 

[Stump Water]

16 hours ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

You should be saying “ Trigger Trigger Trigger”!

 

You reminded me of a humorous anecdote.  IIRC this is how the story goes...

 

At the Fla. state match Red River Ray jacked a round out of his rifle.  Santa Fe River Stan* advised him, "It's lever, trigger, lever, trigger.  Not lever, lever, lever... dumbass."

 

* Might have been Dangit Dan

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Stump Water said:

 

You reminded me of a humorous anecdote.  IIRC this is how the story goes...

 

At the Fla. state match Red River Ray jacked a round out of his rifle.  Santa Fe River Stan* advised him, "It's lever, trigger, lever, trigger.  Not lever, lever, lever... dumbass."

 

* Might have been Dangit Dan

 

Sixgun Seamus says that all the time! He must’ve heard it from Dang It Dan😂