Brady Bunch in a bunch

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

Brady Goes on Social Media Rant Over Less-Lethal Weapons Bill

[Sedalia Dave]

Me thinks the Brady Bunch has been drinking spiked Koolaid again.

 

Text of the proposed amendment.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/1283/text

[John Kloehr]

This would define some airsoft guns, a bunch of BB guns, and most pellet guns as firearms.

 

Serialization, manufacturer licensing, tracking from manufacture through distribution to purchase, background checks for purchase (4473), and requiring an FFL for retail sale.

 

The "exemption" would be any item with a projectile speed under 500 feet per second unless the projectiles are loaded in a pistol grip; in that case, the "exemption" would not apply..

[John Kloehr]

I'm now confused between the first two posts in this thread. The second post (to bill text) expands the definition of a firearm to include BB guns and says nothing about devices like tasers.

 

The first post (to the article) talks about removing items from the definition of firearms. The article does not contain enough information to figure out what bill is under discussion.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

Yes.

If you go to the comments, others noticed the same and suggested other sources.

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

I'm now confused between the first two posts in this thread. The second post (to bill text) expands the definition of a firearm to include BB guns and says nothing about devices like tasers.

 

The first post (to the article) talks about removing items from the definition of firearms. The article does not contain enough information to figure out what bill is under discussion.

 

Here is how the modifications would look. I only copied the relevant sections of 921.

 

Proposed changes are underlined.

 

<end quote>

§921. Definitions

(a) As used in this chapter-

 

(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm or a less-than-lethal projectile device.

 

 

<end quote>

 

 

Then at the very end of 921 add the following text.

 

<quote>

 

(38) (A) The term ‘less-than-lethal projectile device’ means a device that—

“(i) is not designed or intended to expel, and may not be readily converted to accept and discharge—

“(I) ammunition commonly used in handguns, rifles, or shotguns; or

“(II) any other projectile at a velocity exceeding 500 feet per second;

“(ii) is designed and intended to be used in a manner that is not likely to cause death or serious bodily injury; and

“(iii) does not accept, and is not able to be readily modified to accept, an ammunition feeding device—

“(I) loaded through the inside of a pistol grip; or

“(II) commonly used in semiautomatic firearms.

 

<end quote>

 

Hope this clears it up

Edited December 2 by Sedalia Dave

[Sedalia Dave]

24 minutes ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

Yes.

If you go to the comments, others noticed the same and suggested other sources.

 

Actually if look at 921 in it's current form and then with the proposed changes I posted above it doesn't.

 

Only when the changes are read out of context do you get the wrong interpretation. 

[John Kloehr]

6 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Here is how the modifications would look. I only copied the relevant sections of 921.

...

Hope this clears it up

That is how I read the proposed bill. It expands regulation. It is a gun-grabber bill. Having read it, I can not match it up to these parts of the article:

 

"

 

Congress took up a dangerous bill that sponsors say is to help law enforcement get greater access to ‘less-than-lethal’ weapons,” Brady postedin a typical manner critical of anything seemingly in the pro-self-defense category. “In reality, it deregulates dangerous weapons to help a billion-dollar weapons industry make more money.”

That’s all well and good, but the author seemed not to be able to let the matter go, soon posting more on the topic just a few minutes later.

 

“This bill isn’t from a well-intentioned lawmaker or a group working to prevent deadly police violence,” Brady posted. “It’s backed by the manufacturers of so-called ‘less-than-lethal’ weapons, like tasers, who have started making products that are appropriately classified as guns under the law.”

 

Still apparently not having said enough, the Brady writer entered rant mode with yet a third post a short time later.

 

“In their effort to skirt the regulation of their products, this bill would narrow the definition of firearm and open a new market for untraceable ghost guns, which have already led to thousands of deaths in the last decade,” Brady posted.

 

"

[Blackwater 53393]

I can honestly say that Hagerty has always been extremely pro gun rights and I doubt that he would put forth any legislation that would further infringe on the Second Amendment.

 

I sometimes struggle with the double speak of legalese and find it difficult to follow, (an issue that I’m sure was created by lawyers to try to keep themselves in positions of influence and value) so I would like to see it said in straight forward language.

[John Kloehr]

Oh, wait @Sedalia Dave I did read it wrong. Looking closer and adding my bold:

 

"

 

Such term does not include an antique firearm or a less-than-lethal projectile device.

 

"

 

Yet still do not see why this change is warranted.

Edited December 2 by John Kloehr

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

Oh, wait @Sedalia Dave I did read it wrong. Looking closer and adding my bold:

 

"

 

Such term does not include an antique firearm or a less-than-lethal projectile device.

 

"

 

Yet still do not see why this change is warranted.

 

I suspect because at least one model of TASER is considered a firearm per the GCA of 1968.  https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12841

 

It is likely easier and therefore cheaper to make a TASER that uses a small propellant charge than to make one that uses compressed gas. I also suspect that there are some patents that a company is trying to work their way around. 

 

Digging will probably show that this bill is really the brainchild of a lobbyist with a brother in law in the TASER manufacturing business.

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

The Brady Bunch has their panties in a wad because this would remove one or more devices from being regulated the the GCA of 1968. 

[John Kloehr]

Hmm. Removing the sentence numbering and extraneous text, an airsoft, BB, or pellet gun which exceeds 500 feet per second is not an exempted "less than lethal projectile device." These are also not firearms under other definitions but I still find the definition troubling.

 

The term ‘less-than-lethal projectile device’ means a device that is not designed or intended to expel any other projectile at a velocity exceeding 500 feet per second;

 

Some future definition could include (or some court could conclude) that a device that is designed or to expel any other projectile at a velocity exceeding 500 feet per second is a firearm.

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

Hmm. Removing the sentence numbering and extraneous text, an airsoft, BB, or pellet gun which exceeds 500 feet per second is not an exempted "less than lethal projectile device." These are also not firearms under other definitions but I still find the definition troubling.

 

 

The term ‘less-than-lethal projectile device’ means a device that is not designed or intended to expel any other projectile at a velocity exceeding 500 feet per second;

 

Some future definition could include (or some court could conclude) that a device that is designed or to expel any other projectile at a velocity exceeding 500 feet per second is a firearm.

 

But an airsoft, BB, or pellet gun does not meet the definition of a firearm because it does not use an explosive charge to propel a projectile.

They also do not meet any of the other definitions that would make them a regulated device.

 

(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

(4) The term "destructive device" means-

(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas-

(i) bomb,

(ii) grenade,

(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,

(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,

(v) mine, or

(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;

 

(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and

(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

 

The term "destructive device" shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 7684(2), 7685, or 7686 of title 10; or any other device which the Attorney General finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational or cultural purposes.

(5) The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.