Shooting .431 cast in 44-40 Uberti

[West]

I have Uberti revolver in 44-40 but brass was impossible to find so I ordered 44spl cylinder from Taylors and was shooting my 44 spl reloads with .431 cast Oregon Trail bullets. Now I finally got some 44-40 brass and here's the question should I keep using .431 bullets or order .427?

Edited November 27, 2025 by West

[Savvy Jack]

Best slug that bore...no matter which you use.

[El Sobrante Kid]

I have mentioned this in other threads about 44-40 bullet sizes; you have to worry about chamber size, chamber throat size, and the barrel size. Many modern 44-40's are a mish-mash of sizes and even though your barrel might be big enough to accommodate a .431 cast bullet, your chamber mouths might not. And trying to stuff a .431 bullet into a 44-40 case and have the rounds fit into the chambers might be another challenge. Slug your barrel and measure all of your chamber mouths as a start. Oh... and you are as likely as not to find that the chambers have the shoulder set back too far. GL!

[Griff]

Check the cylinder throats.  You don't them smaller than your groove diameter in the bbl.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yeah, it's not the brass that determines what diameter of bullet will shoot well in a revolver, it's the cylinder and barrel dimensions.  Fit bullet to 0.001" over the tightest diameter of the  groove ID in the barrel.  And hope that the cylinder throats are NOT way smaller diameter - if they are, they can be reamed and honed to be a little closer to the groove diameter from the barrel. 

 

If you have used your 0.431" slugs in .44 spl in this gun and not had lots of leading or oversize cartridge problems chambering, then most likely 0.431" slugs will ALSO be fine for the .44 WCF brass.  good luck, GJ

[Crisco]

I shoot more .44 Special than .44-40 so always have .430/.431 bullets around. They shoot fine in all our .44-40s (Winchester, Colt, ASM, Uberti), but I have to be careful about which .44-40 brass I use them in.  I can load the .430/.431 bullets in Starline or Winchester cases and they chamber fine in everything.  If I load the larger bullets in pretty much anything else (R-P, 3-D, CBC or BHA) they won’t pass the gauge and are tough to chamber.

Just one more consideration…

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I doubt the gun is .427 

Every gun company out there .

Standardized  .430/.431 Years and years ago .

 

[El Sobrante Kid]

4 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I doubt the gun is .427 

Every gun company out there .

Standardized  .430/.431 Years and years ago .

 

 

For the barrel that is probably true for "most" guns. But the chamber dimensions and chamber throat dimensions can still be an issue. AND... if you purchased an older, used, gun, then you can't be sure of what you have until you take all the measurements.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Industry standard BASE barrel groove diameter for almost all "44" pistols now is 0.429".   With a tolerance allowed up to maximum diameter of 0.433"  (wow, pretty sloppy!).  Which makes a 0.430" cast bullet just about ideal most of the time.  But 0.431" slugs can often "squeeze into" that barrel.  In practice, modern guns seem to hit 0.429 more often than the larger allowed diameters.

 

If this seems to be contentious, see the SAAMI specs for .44 Special and .44 Magnum chamber and barrel dimensions, in the latest SAAMI handgun specs:

 

2022-Centerfire-Pistol-Revolver SAAMI specifications

 

Note how they do not even TRY to show specs for .44-40  (aka .44 WCF) cartridges for handguns.   In the rifle document, they show a 0.4285" base groove diameter in .44-40.  Since companies making barrels hate having to make more tooling than necessary, they use 0.429" barrels for all "44" guns, even on .44-40 revolvers and rifles now.  good luck, GJ

Edited November 28, 2025 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Three Foot Johnson]

I've read by 1956, everything had gone from .427" to .429", and some references state the change goes clear back to the 1920's. Then, as mentioned, slug the bore, then load a handful and make sure they chamber before you crank out a few hundred.

[Sedalia Dave]

You are most likely going to have problems with .431" slugs chambering.  I tried some .430" bullets and had issues with some rounds not fully seating in my pistols. Even after reaming the chambers and cylinder throats with a custom reamer. Had similar issues in my rifles but the lever allows me to force the round the last 32nd of an inch.

 

Troubleshooting the problem,  I discovered that bullets that were exactly .430" would work in Starline brass but not RP brass. .4305" bullets had issues even with Starline brass. 

 

Using .429" bullets I have no issues.

[Timothy]

Are we really so scared to load 5 rounds and see how they shoot now days? sigh

[El Sobrante Kid]

2 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Are we really so scared to load 5 rounds and see how they shoot now days? sigh

 

I don't think anyone is particularly scared. The smart people try to find the best components to use... before they start. Keeps us from wasting a lot of time, and leads to a more harmonious outcome.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

FIRST:  PLUS ONE for Savvy Jack.

 

SWCOND:  If you are of the impression that everyone switched to .429 Bore, you're living inna tree.  There are several manufacturers whom believe 44-40/44 WCF should have a .427 Bore.  I personally have TWO Open Top barrels from Uberti, roll marked 44-40, and both are 427 Bore.  Running 44 Colt cases with 430 Cast bullets, with APP gave bulged cases and very very FLAT primers, indicating excess pressure.

 

Sometimes loading Five Rounds of something to "see how they shoot" is a really dumb thing to do.  More than a couple of guns have been blown up doing just that. 

[Three Foot Johnson]

I'm drawing a blank on Uberti .44-40 Open Tops... I guess I didn't know they ever made one.

A few years ago, I had 4 Uberti 1875 .44-40 Remingtons - three of them slugged .429", and one measured a whopping ~.4315". I slugged it another couple times, and it came out the same each time. No apparent tight spots or loose spots. It happens.  

[Sedalia Dave]

I'm with TFJ. I had no idea that anyone made a factory open top chambered in 44-40.

 

I know of two pair and both were custom builds. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Hey three Foot and Sedalia,

 

That be correctamundo!!.  Neither Uberti nor anyone else ever "manufactured" a 44-40 Open Top.  I was some flabbergasted to get TWO barrels for my Open Tops roll marked 44-40.  Figured "oh sure" and cut 'em to fit.  Never entered my feeble mind they would also be .427 butt guess what!!  They are in fact 427.

 

The only other 44-40 Open Top I know of are probably the same two pair Sedalia mentions.  I'll have to look and see if I left enough of the roll mark to get a photo.  My prime shooting partner also received a 44 Barrel that was roll marked 44-40.  Weird.  Truth - Stranger than Fiction.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I run .427" bullets in .44-40.

2 3rd Gen Colts

1 1st Gen Colt  (Antique)

1 Uberti
2 Colt Sheriff's models that are dual cylindered for .44-40/44 Special, 3rd Gen

An after market .44-40 cylinder for use in my .44 Special Colt Buntline.  3rd Gen

1 S&W New Model 3  (Antique)

1 Merwin & Hulbert  (Antique)

1 Uberti 73 rifle
1 AWA Lightning.

1 Colt Lighting  (Antique)
1 Uberti Henry

1 Uberti 66
1 Marlin 1889  (Antique)
 

I had to have the chambers reamed on all the 3rd Gen Colts cuz they were too tight, and on the AWA Lighting.  Everything else, the rounds chambered with no problems.

.44-40 is a strange beast.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

I have a couple, but they started life as 44 Specials.  .429 bullets worked fine, as long as I used Winchester or Starline brass.

[Lead Monger]

This fellow has .427 to .428 throats. 
 

[El Sobrante Kid]

10 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:

This fellow has .427 to .428 throats. 
 

 

Beautiful MH! How does it shoot? I have been shopping for one for years but never found the right (for me) combination of condition and price.

[Lead Monger]

8 hours ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

 

Beautiful MH! How does it shoot? I have been shopping for one for years but never found the right (for me) combination of condition and price.

It’s not as tight as I would like and the half cock notch is damaged. I will shoot it a few times when I receive the 427 lube/sizer die I ordered. BP hand loads of corse. I have a little 32 that’s almost a twin. It’s a hoot in a side match.

[Savvy Jack]

Quote

It’s not as tight as I would like and the half cock notch is damaged. I will shoot it a few times when I receive the 427 lube/sizer die I ordered. BP hand loads of corse. I have a little 32 that’s almost a twin. It’s a hoot in a side match.

 

 

32gr kik black powder loads create only 6,000 psi

39/40gr Goex FFFg creates between 8 and 10k psi pending bullet used

6.4gr trail boss creates only 8,500 psi

factory Super-X JSP creates only 8k psi

 

Meanwhile, 40gr  Swiss FFg in original pre-1884 balloon pocket cases created 14,285 psi (16,885 cup)

 

44-40 max smokeless PSI is 11,000psi or 13,000 CUP

 

https://www.44-40.org/ballistics/copy-of-ballistics

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2025 by Savvy Jack

[Lead Monger]

8 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

 

 

32gr kik black powder loads create only 6,000 psi

39/40gr Goex FFFg creates between 8 and 10k psi pending bullet used

6.4gr trail boss creates only 8,500 psi

factory Super-X JSP creates only 8k psi

 

Meanwhile, 40gr  Swiss FFg in original pre-1884 balloon pocket cases created 14,285 psi (16,885 cup)

 

44-40 max smokeless PSI is 11,000psi or 13,000 CUP

 

https://www.44-40.org/ballistics/copy-of-ballistics

 

 

 

Thank you for the info. I was thinking about 30 to 35 grains of GOEX 3F and a 200g big lube would be fun.