Henry 1860 for Frontier Cartridge

[Sailor Jim]

Does anyone use a Henry 1860 in the Frontier Cartridge class? Any input on how they handle black powder, and if Henry or Uberti are better for competition would be appreciated.

[Griff]

I use a Uberti "Steel Frame" Henry for Frontiersman.  It's a 45 Colt and I've "clearanced" the carrier so the fouling that sticks to it and the inside of mortise is of little impact.  I've shot it since 2008 when I bought it thru EMF.  It was in their last shipment of guns from Uberti, and was offered to me by US Grant, as I also had one of the 1st five 45 Colt rifles, he imported from Uberti  The Henry and it's "Improved Henry (1866), are a little more difficult to take down than their younger brother, the 1873 due to their "mortised" side plates.  But, all three use the same internals, so the Uberti version can use the same "speed" parts as the 1873.  Their one big advantage is the lack of a "spring cover/ladle/loading gate" with its weak tab in the 1866.  Some find the "Henry Hop" to be off-putting as the follower returns to its resting position as you empty the magazine.  Several folks have fashioned a spacer they load after the 10th round (or last as the case may be) to keep the follower from interfering with their forehand grip.  I've converted mine to us the C45S with a special carrier so my forehand is forward of the follower from the beginning.

 

The Henry Firearms version might be a little nicer in fit & finish, but other'n a cut n' weld you'll not find short stroke parts. If the "made in America" slogan is of importance to you, you don't have any other choice.  Not sure about other tune-up parts, so the Uberti gets the nod from me for that reason.  Not sure of the current pricing, but I believe the Uberti is still the less expensive option, not counting any modifications you either do or have done.  Mine is off at the gunsmith to get 6" taken off the 24-¼" bbl to gain a little more handling speed.  With the C45S carrier, it'll still hold 10+1 rounds.  I've waited for 6 years before doing this as I had an order in for a custom rifle from Uberti, but no other orders to complete the required quantity needed to manufacture this "one-off".    I do know that Taylor's just received some brass framed "Carbines" from Uberti as they called and asked if I wanted one.  I declined as I prefer the CCH steel version over the brass.  They said they didn't know if they'd see future shipments of the steel framed version as Uberti was cutting back on their offerings.

 

I'm sure others will chime in with their preferences and opinions.  Good luck.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

I've shot mostly Uberti 1860 Henry rifles since I started shooting CAS 25+ years ago.

Probably best to say at the outset, that I never have been a speedster -- don't care about stage times and match placement, so if you wanna be a top shooter, Henrys might not be for you.
I love hammer doubles and Henry rifles, and I'm not fast by any measure!

I love them and have spent most of the time shooting Henrys in 44-40 with black powder, and Dick Dastardly's "Big Lube" bullets, and they "handle" black powder very well.

I mostly shot Frontiersman, cuz I love  cap guns, but nowadays with BP cartridges in FCD, cuz ole Arthur Itis is creeping in.

Almost always with Big Lubes in rifles and handguns.
Dick retired his business a few years ago, and while there have been several casters through the years who cast & sold Big Lubes, the most prolific was Springfield Slim, who got out of the business a coupla years ago.
Similar moulds for these large-lube-groove bullets are available from Accurate (https://accuratemolds.com/), or you could use grease cookies like folks did in the days before Big Lubes.  See Charly Gullett's book "Cowboy Action Shooting".

Back to Henry Rifles:

They're rather big and heavy, as the barrel & under-barrel magazine slot are milled in one piece, and the barrel only comes in 24".

That also makes them rather nose-heavy.

And the magazine tab gets in the way.
They are only made in 44-40 and 45 

So, if you want to be a speed demon, Henry Rifles will slow you down.
I mostly chose 44-40, because it shoots black powder very well.

The straight-walled 45 Colt/Schofield/Special fouls the action more, and is less desirable, IMHO.
I don't like to fiddle with my guns much during a match, and 44-40 allows you to do that.

Straight-walled cartridges are much worse with BP fouling.
Griff describes how he has found a way around this that works to his satisfaction with black powder.

Others just shoot subs, like APP, and get around the fouling issues that way.

Over the years, I've owned many Uberti 1860 Henry Rifles, both brass-framed and steel-framed.

I currently own 2, both coffinmaker-converted to Henry Transitionals.
He has shortened the rounded-off end of the barrel, so it's now 19" or so.
This vastly improves the handling, and my 44-40 has been my favorite and goto main match rifle now for 5 years or so.
Coffinmaker also built me one in 45, for the Cowboy 45 Special round.
I shoot APP in that rifle, but black powder is still my preferred powder, so I shoot my 44-40 about 90% of the time.

While I do have '73s and 66s, Henry Rifles are my favorite, and I will own and shoot them as long as I am shooting CAS.
--Dawg

Edited November 22, 2025 by Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Here's a coupla links for a Henry Rifle spacer stick, so you don't hafta do the "Henry Hop"
--Dawg
https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=40551.0

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,15500.0.html 

[Blackwater 53393]

I shoot the “Iron” Henry from Uberti in Frontiersman and the Frontier Cartridge categories. Mine has had all of the “race gun” stuff done to it and I use a spacer in the magazine to avoid the “Henry Hop”.  This gun is .45 Colt and I have used a wide variety of different bullet profiles and lubrication techniques over the years. It has been reliable and gives no trouble when used in two day matches with a minimum of cleaning and maintenance.

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

Are you shooting real black or a substitute?  I shoot APP which is synthetic and it shoots much cleaner than any other black out there. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

My Turn!!  My Turn!!  I've been shooting Uberti Henry rifles since the Early 2000s.  And as mentioned in one of Dawg's references, and mentioned by Driftwood Johnson, I developed the original Spacer for the Henry Magazine.  Very Handy indeed and a very good safety device.  I don't just use the Henry for Frontiersman.  My Henry rifles are my Main Match rifles and contain ALL the bells and whistles. 

 

My rifles are all 45 Colt.  I load exclusively with APP.  Straight walled pistol cases, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44 Special, 44 Russian DO NOT obturate at firing to seal the chamber leading to Blow-By fouling so I Anneal ALL my .45 Cases and they will seal the chamber and run as clean as the "dash" caliber cartridges (44-40, 38-40).

 

As cited by Griff, with a .45 Henry it is a simple matter of either a "Smith Shop" carrier Block or a fitted set screw cartridge stop and you can run Cowboy 45 Special cases with ease.  18 or 19 will fit in the magazine (OEM) or a really long spacing stick.  Henry Rifles Be FUNNER!!

[Griff]

9

52 minutes ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

Are you shooting real black or a substitute?  I shoot APP which is synthetic and it shoots much cleaner than any other black out there. 

in the 45 Colt I shoot real black.  With the carrier clearanced I can generally shoot a 3 day, 12-stage match without cleaning.  With the C45S, I generally use APP as my propellant and I then also shoot a lighter bullet.

[Blackwater 53393]

I used FFFg Black Powder only! I have lots of it and I wasn’t satisfied with the flame and smoke from any of the substitutes. 
 

Just me!! My mom says that I am “PERPENDICULAR” !! 😜

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

BLACKWATER 🙄

 

NAH, IT'S suppose to be "PEECUELEEARE" I think.  Had a thought.  It was certainly some PAINFULL

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

OOPSIES!! 😂

 

I forgot, iffin one plans/wants to shoot Cowboy 45 Special cases, there are a couple of minor alterations needed to the Breach Block (Bolt).  The alterations don't affect form or function, they are to clearance the respective cartridge stops.

Edited November 23, 2025 by Colorado Coffinmaker
I hate OTTO

[Blackwater 53393]

26 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

BLACKWATER 🙄

 

NAH, IT'S suppose to be "PEECUELEEARE" I think.  Had a thought.  It was certainly some PAINFULL

NOPE!!

 

Ma’ said PERPENDICULAR  ‘cause I was always crossways ta’ EVERYONE ‘n’ EVERYTHING!! 🤣

 

Edited November 22, 2025 by Blackwater 53393

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

3 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I used FFFg Black Powder only! I have lots of it and I wasn’t satisfied with the flame and smoke from any of the substitutes. 
 

Just me!! My mom says that I am “PERPENDICULAR” !! 😜

THIS!!! ^^^^

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

My Henry is .44-40 cal, has a Cowboys & Indians 3rd gen short stroke kit and I use Coffinmaker’s stick. 
 

Annealing cases will seal the chamber like .44-40, but I’d rather watch paint dry than spend time on that. To each his own.

 

Having said that, it’s a great solution if your rifles are already .45 and you don’t want to switch to a bottleneck cartridge. 
 

 

Edited November 22, 2025 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I don't shoot Frontier Cartridge, but I do have an Uberti Henry in .44-40.   When I use the rifle, depending on other factors, I use either black, or smokeless, and it works well with both.   A spacer stick as reference above is highly recommended.  When all is said and done, other than the way you load it, a Henry is really no different from a 66 or a 73.  Mine is out of the box stock, and it works quite well, no complaints about how it works from me.  

I have not had occasion to compare it to the HRAC gun, but I have seen them in the stores, and they are pretty to look at.   But considering how much less expensive the Uberti guns are, and given how they work well "as is," I don't see the point to the HRAC gun.  Not that I'd turn my nose up at one, but I personally can't justify the expense.

Edited November 22, 2025 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I own both Uberti and HRA Original both in 44-40.

They both work just fine.

I fell the Uberti is a better built gun.

No MIM parts in the Uberti. 

Rooster 

Edited November 23, 2025 by Rooster Ron Wayne

[Sailor Jim]

On 11/22/2025 at 9:59 AM, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

Are you shooting real black or a substitute?  I shoot APP which is synthetic and it shoots much cleaner than any other black out there. 

I have been shooting the real thing since I switched and still have a few cans on hand, but availability seems to be drying up, and have been thinking about saving it for my Hawkins (and a flintlock if I get one in the future). Lots of Triple 7 available around here, I picked up a container of FFg to experiment with. I've read it works well in a progressive press, I'll have to pull my Dllion out and see if it is true, that could save a bunch of time.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

19 minutes ago, Sailor Jim said:

I have been shooting the real thing since I switched and still have a few cans on hand, but availability seems to be drying up, and have been thinking about saving it for my Hawkins (and a flintlock if I get one in the future). Lots of Triple 7 available around here, I picked up a container of FFg to experiment with. I've read it works well in a progressive press, I'll have to pull my Dllion out and see if it is true, that could save a bunch of time.

When I started with the smokey stuff, I loaded a lot of 777 on a progressive press. A little dusty, but not as much as APP. Meters well. Stay away from 3f for your cartridges. Load to base of bullet with no compression. They say it’s 15% more powerful than BP, but I can’t tell any difference. Clean up is easy with just hot water. LOTS of white smoke - more than BP. 

 

Once I discovered the boom and flame of real BP, I quit using the subs. 

[Sailor Jim]

Thanks for all the responses, it sounds like it is not as crazy as I originally thought.

 

I've been shooting .45 Colt with Goex (because that's what was available over the counter), fun but the blow by is an issue. Guns get crunchy, shots of Ballistol, between stages, and by the end of the day my 92 & Vaqueros look like they've sprung oil leaks. Never considered anodizing the brass - I'll have to look into it.

 

I'll have to see what our distributor has in stock, it sounds like the Uberti steel frame (Uberti mentions a trapper carbine version with an 18.5" barrel) in .45 Colt & anodizing the brass might be the perfect solution. Adding a spacer stick and the `73 mods mentioned will probably happen as well, more for function than speed (speed seems to be a bit less important since my age started with a 6).

 

Thanks for all the responses!

Edited November 23, 2025 by Sailor Jim

[Sailor Jim]

21 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

My Henry is .44-40 cal, has a Cowboys & Indians 3rd gen short stroke kit and I use Coffinmaker’s stick. 
 

Annealing cases will seal the chamber like .44-40, but I’d rather watch paint dry than spend time on that. To each his own.

 

Having said that, it’s a great solution if your rifles are already .45 and you don’t want to switch to a bottleneck cartridge. 
 

 

I'll have to see what's involved in annealing the cases, I have buckets of .45 Colt & Schofield brass, and maybe a dozen .44-40 cases picked up by accident.

[Griff]

8 minutes ago, Sailor Jim said:

 Never considered anodizing the brass - I'll have to look into it.

Annealing... not anodizing.  Two VERY different processes for different metals.

Quote

Brass cannot be anodized because anodizing is a process for aluminum, titanium, and magnesium that works by creating a controlled oxide layer. To achieve an effect similar to anodizing, such as a durable colored finish, you can use chemical patination or powder coating that mimics the appearance of anodized metals.

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

8 minutes ago, Sailor Jim said:

Thanks for all the responses, it sounds like it is not as crazy as I originally thought.

 

I've been shooting .45 Colt with Goex (because that's what was available over the counter), fun but the blow by is an issue. Guns get crunchy, shots of Ballistol, between stages, and by the end of the day my 92 & Vaqueros look like they've sprung oil leaks. Never considered anodizing the brass - I'll have to look into it.

 

I'll have to see what our distributor has in stock, it sounds like the Uberti steel frame in .45 Colt & anodizing the brass might be the perfect solution. Adding a spacer stick and the `73 mods mentioned will probably happen as well, more for function than speed (speed seems to be a bit less important since my age started with a 6).

 

Thanks for all the responses!

Hmmm….crunchy. Are you using BP lubed bullets or smokeless? 
 

I used to shoot BP in a .45 ‘92 with Big Lube bullets, but didn’t have the issues you describe. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

33 minutes ago, Sailor Jim said:

...I'll have to see what our distributor has in stock, it sounds like the Uberti steel frame (Uberti mentions a trapper carbine version with an 18.5" barrel) in .45 Colt & anodizing the brass might be the perfect solution. Adding a spacer stick and the `73 mods mentioned will probably happen as well, more for function than speed (speed seems to be a bit less important since my age started with a 6).

 

Jim, a couple things.  Uberti doesn't make the 18.5" Henry with the steel frame.  Steel frames are all 24".  And unless you are loading Cowboy 45 Specials, the capacity of the 18.5" guns is ten rounds.  That means no room for a spacer stick, so you will have to do the Henry hop.

 

A side note, looking at prices on websites, there is quite a bit of difference.  Taylors is the highest (also has the most variety), Cimarron next, and Dixie the lowest (44-40 steel frame $1695 for example).  Some of this could be tariffs, and some could be prices not updated on websites.

[Sailor Jim]

10 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Hmmm….crunchy. Are you using BP lubed bullets or smokeless? 
 

I used to shoot BP in a .45 ‘92 with Big Lube bullets, but didn’t have the issues you describe. 

Incomplete burn + poor sealing, and maybe old powder. Pistol/rifle issue only, shotgun seals fine. That's why I was looking at the .44-40, but in annealing the cases would work that might be a better solution.

[Griff]

"Crunchy" definitely sounds like a BP incompatible lube issue.  Rugers are famously noted for not being BP friendly without being worked on.  The only sub suitable for with regular lube bullets is APP.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

42 minutes ago, Sailor Jim said:

Incomplete burn + poor sealing, and maybe old powder. Pistol/rifle issue only, shotgun seals fine. That's why I was looking at the .44-40, but in annealing the cases would work that might be a better solution.

I guess it depends on how much you shoot. The more you shoot, the more time you have to spend annealing. Reloading is a bit of a chore for me, so I’m not inclined to add things that require more time. You can buy an annealing device that shortens the amount of time, but I was put off by the price at $300. 
 

Having said that, you’ll have to buy a die set and a buncha cases anyway, so the cost is probably a wash. 
 

I was amazed by the difference between .45 and .44-40. There is no blowback so cleaning the barrel is all I have to do. 
 

For me it’s a matter of time spent or saved. Others enjoy fiddling, so they won’t have the objections I do. 
 

One more thing. .44-40 or annealing won’t make a bit of difference in pistols. They’re messy no matter what you do as the blow by occurs between the cylinder face and barrel. Griff makes a valuable point about Rugers. 
 

Edited November 23, 2025 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

22 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

No MIM parts in the Uberti. 

MIM?

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Sailor Jim,

 

Next solution is 44-40 cases (Pay attention Slim 🤩).  If you carefully run 44-40 cases thru yer 45 Colt dies, load 'em with .45 bullets, then fire form them into 45 colt specs, they will run just as clean as "Cash" (Krapola - "Dash") calibers and save you the Skull Numbing Boredom of Annealing.

Edited November 24, 2025 by Colorado Coffinmaker
I hate OTTO

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Sailor Jim,

 

Next solution is 44-40 cases (Pay attention Slim 🤩).  If you carefully run 44-40 cases thru yer 45 Colt dies, load 'em with .45 bullets, then fire form them into 45 colt specs, they will run just as clean as "Cash" calibers and save you the Skull Numbing Boredom of Annealing.

Not fer me! Got rid of my .45 cal rifle. Still too much work!  😁

 

Edited November 24, 2025 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783

[Sedalia Dave]

19 hours ago, Sailor Jim said:

Thanks for all the responses, it sounds like it is not as crazy as I originally thought.

 

I've been shooting .45 Colt with Goex (because that's what was available over the counter), fun but the blow by is an issue. Guns get crunchy, shots of Ballistol, between stages, and by the end of the day my 92 & Vaqueros look like they've sprung oil leaks. Never considered anodizing the brass - I'll have to look into it.

 

I'll have to see what our distributor has in stock, it sounds like the Uberti steel frame (Uberti mentions a trapper carbine version with an 18.5" barrel) in .45 Colt & anodizing the brass might be the perfect solution. Adding a spacer stick and the `73 mods mentioned will probably happen as well, more for function than speed (speed seems to be a bit less important since my age started with a 6).

 

Thanks for all the responses!

 

As other pointed out it sounds like you are not using a BP compatible lube.  For a grease I use Mobil 1 full synthetic red. A single cartridge will last you years. For oil I use Ballistol.

 

During the match if you have to lube use Moose Milk. It's 10% Ballistol and 90% water.  Works 1000% better than straight Ballistol.

 

I shoot 92s in 44-40 and 38/357 and they'll run 12 stages over 2 days with a light application of Moose Milk at the end of the day.

 

I also have a brass framed 1860 and a brass framed 66 in 44-40. Their frames have a beautiful patina from shooting lots of BP. 

 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Sedalia Dave,

 

Nah.  I much prefer PAM.  And for oil I much prefer Mobil 1 Motor Oil.  Plays super well with BP and Subs.

[Sedalia Dave]

16 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Sedalia Dave,

 

Nah.  I much prefer PAM.  And for oil I much prefer Mobil 1 Motor Oil.  Plays super well with BP and Subs.

 

PAM works too. I just find Moose Milk easier to keep on hand.

[Sailor Jim]

Well, the distributor is sold out of all types of Italian Henrys, and don't expect to get any this year. Guess the whole thing is on hold at the moment, sounds like a workable idea though.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

10 minutes ago, Sailor Jim said:

Well, the distributor is sold out of all types of Italian Henrys, and don't expect to get any this year. Guess the whole thing is on hold at the moment, sounds like a workable idea though.

Check the SASS Wire classifieds from time to time.

 

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/forum/14-sass-wire-classifieds/

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, Sailor Jim said:

Well, the distributor is sold out of all types of Italian Henrys, and don't expect to get any this year. Guess the whole thing is on hold at the moment, sounds like a workable idea though.

I don't know who your distributor is but Dixie has that steel frame 44-40 in stock and any FFL can order it.