APP loads for .38 Sp ?

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

I am currently shooting 45 lc. I cast my own lead 250 grn bullets. I use APP FFF with Approximately 15 grn of APP and 12 grn of filler. This load works great for me in both pistol and rifle. I am now getting geared up to cast .38 sp 125 grn bullets. Is there anyone out there shooting .38sp using APP and a filler in their loads? Just curious to what your APP starting load is. I know I will need to fine tune it as I did with the .45lc but I can't seem to find any real data on the internet for this type of load.  The APP website lists .357 but with a much heavier bullet, but nothing for .38 sp

[Three Foot Johnson]

Fill case to where the base of the bullet will be. Dump it in a pan, weigh it, DONE. 

Loading data for APP used to state not to use a filler or bullet lube, but I see it says a filler OK on the Web site, so...

Edited November 11, 2025 by Three Foot Johnson

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Okey Dokey!!  Here ya go.  Standard instructions for APP is fill the case to the base of the bullet.  Pretty simple.  However, my "PET" load for the 38 Special is 11Gr, by WEIGHT 3F app.  It doesn't leave much if any air gap and shoots a treat.  Same same load for 105Gr bullets.  For 38s I load with Truncated Cone bullets for excellent feeding in rifles.  They run just fine in pistols too.

 

I don't load full size 45 Colt cases anymore.  For my 45s, I load 14-15Gr 3F APP in C45S cases (pistol) with 130Gr Barnstormer bullets.  For the rifles I just fill to the base of the bullets.  Not enough recoil to spit at as I load my 45 Rifles with Schofield cases w/180-185Gr RNFP.  Same same for 44 Special cases with 165Gr RNFP (Badman Bullets).

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

Just to clarify a little more........  I use the filler to lighten up the loads. I will continue to use .45 lc for all my shooting but the .38 will be for both my girls 10 and 12. I am using the stallion for the pistols and the are a bit smaller than the regular 1873. I'm looking to achieve a lighter load for them.  They both currently shot wrangler .22 and a henry .22 lever.  But by the beginning of the year I want to get them into shooting .38.

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

Using filler in 38spl loads is a pain in the butt. For those Stallions try using 38 long cases without filler and a 96 gr bullet. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Scarlett Darlin are you out there?.....

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/profile/87017-bullets-by-scarlett/

Edited November 11, 2025 by The Original Lumpy Gritz

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

14 minutes ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

Just to clarify a little more........  I use the filler to lighten up the loads. I will continue to use .45 lc for all my shooting but the .38 will be for both my girls 10 and 12. I am using the stallion for the pistols and the are a bit smaller than the regular 1873. I'm looking to achieve a lighter load for them.  They both currently shot wrangler .22 and a henry .22 lever.  But by the beginning of the year I want to get them into shooting .38.

 

1 minute ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

Using filler in 38spl loads is a pain in the butt. For those Stallions try using 38 long cases without filler and a 96 gr bullet. 

How do the girls feel about shooting 38s loaded with APP?

Beartrap has a good suggestion of using a shorter 38 case.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

9 to 10 grains of APP with a 125gr slug in 38 works just fine.

Should get you 700 to 740 fps and handle any knockdowns.

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

@I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321  They already shoot APP in my 12g shotgun loads and they love it. It is actually lighter than the lightest factory 12g loads you can buy.

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

Especially with APP the bullet weight has a bigger effect on recoil than a couple grains of powder. Those little 95/96 grain pills will really reduce the recoil over 125 gr bullets and in a revolver overall cartridge length doesn't matter. There's no crimp grove, so you can seat them deep to reduce the amount of APP used. They're made by Bear Creek Bullets and I use them for the kids in my NS classes.

[Snakebite Dust SASS 75484]

I shoot 38 special 125 grain bullet with 3F APP and load about 10.5 grains of powder which is about 2/3 full brass case

 

From what I have been told you do not need to compress APP and its worked fine for me.

 

One thing I will say and will probably get grief for it.

 

APP is the easiest powder to clean guns out of any powder that I have ever used. 

[KatfishKid]

10 minutes ago, Snakebite Dust SASS 75484 said:

I shoot 38 special 125 grain bullet with 3F APP and load about 10.5 grains of powder which is about 2/3 full brass case

 

From what I have been told you do not need to compress APP and its worked fine for me.

 

One thing I will say and will probably get grief for it.

 

APP is the easiest powder to clean guns out of any powder that I have ever used. 

Can you send me a link to the bullets you use and if you know that discount code. 

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

10 minutes ago, Snakebite Dust SASS 75484 said:

APP is the easiest powder to clean guns out of any powder that I have ever used. 

Truth!

[Done Gone, SASS #49052]

3 different APP loads I’ve used. 1cc of powder with an 1/8” card wad from circle fly wads. Any 125gr bullet works fine. You can use 1.3cc with the 125gr bullet, with no wad or filler. Either of these loads work fine in rifle and pistol. 
 

I’ve also used the 1cc load with a 140gr dewc right down on the powder. The dewc is nice for hewvy knockdowns, but it won’t work in the rifle. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

IMO anyone who uses filler in a .38 is a wimp.  But for preteens, no problemo. 

[Snakebite Dust SASS 75484]

1 hour ago, KatfishKid said:

Can you send me a link to the bullets you use and if you know that discount code. 

sent via pm

[Texas Maverick]

3 hours ago, Ike the butcher Tuckerson said:

I am currently shooting 45 lc. I cast my own lead 250 grn bullets. I use APP FFF with Approximately 15 grn of APP and 12 grn of filler. This load works great for me in both pistol and rifle. I am now getting geared up to cast .38 sp 125 grn bullets. Is there anyone out there shooting .38sp using APP and a filler in their loads? Just curious to what your APP starting load is. I know I will need to fine tune it as I did with the .45lc but I can't seem to find any real data on the internet for this type of load.  The APP website lists .357 but with a much heavier bullet, but nothing for .38 sp

For APP loads 1 cc dipper is plenty for the 125 grn bullet. This is what I shoot now. I was doing 1.3 cc dipper loads but the 1 cc does just as good with plenty of smoke. No filler needed with APP.

 

TM

Edited November 11, 2025 by Texas Maverick

[Sedalia Dave]

Do not use filler with APP in 38s. Load till it almost touches the base of the bullet. (About 1cc)

Recoil is very manageable. 

Using filler in 38s will cause more problems than it’s worth. 
 There’ll be so much blow in the rifle that it will not run for more than 3 stages without cleaning. 
 

 The pistols will not be much better. 
 

12 ga Load

33 to 35 grains by weight of 3F APP. 

Claybuster CB0178-12 wad 

3/4 ounce of shot. 
 

 Generates just enough pressure to keep the blow by from gumming up the chambers and minimal recoil. 

Edited November 11, 2025 by Sedalia Dave

[Boggus Deal #64218]

12 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Do not use filler with APP in 38s. Load till it almost touches the base of the bullet. (About 1cc)

Recoil is very manageable. 

Using filler in 38s will cause more problems than it’s worth. 
 There’ll be so much blow in the rifle that it will not run for more than 3 stages without cleaning. 
 

 The pistols will not be much better. 
 

12 ga Load

33 to 35 grains by weight of 3F APP. 

Claybuster CB0178-12 wad 

3/4 ounce of shot. 
 

 Generates just enough pressure to keep the blow by from gumming up the chambers and minimal recoil. 

Ummm. Not true. Lady Jane runs a filler in her .38s and doesn’t have to clean her guns during a whole match. A little Balistol spray from time to time. She’s won her share of titles with that load. 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

17 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

IMO anyone who uses filler in a .38 is a wimp.  But for preteens, no problemo. 

Not a wimp but it does allow more shooting because it saves powder. 

[Sedalia Dave]

5 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Ummm. Not true. Lady Jane runs a filler in her .38s and doesn’t have to clean her guns during a whole match. A little Balistol spray from time to time. She’s won her share of titles with that load. 

 

Used to shoot with a guy that used filler in 38s and he was constantly spraying down his 73 and running a brush through the chamber all during the match. His revolvers were dirtier than my 1860 cap guns.

 

I don't use filler and can shoot 18 stages over 3 days with nothing more than a wipedown at the end of the day. No disassembly or flushing out the action required at any time. 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

16 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Used to shoot with a guy that used filler in 38s and he was constantly spraying down his 73 and running a brush through the chamber all during the match. His revolvers were dirtier than my 1860 cap guns.

 

I don't use filler and can shoot 18 stages over 3 days with nothing more than a wipedown at the end of the day. No disassembly or flushing out the action required at any time. 

He’s doing something else wrong. 

[Sedalia Dave]

Just now, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

He’s doing something else wrong. 

 

Maybe. Just know what I observed on several occasions.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Not a wimp but it does allow more shooting because it saves powder. 

True.

Loaded to the base of the bullet takes 14.5 to 15 grains (weight) of APP.

9 to 10 grains gets to the target just fine with plenty of smoke.

[Scarlett]

21 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Scarlett Darlin are you out there?.....

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/profile/87017-bullets-by-scarlett/

Here I am! 🥰

I shoot FCGF all the time. I use (and sell - full disclosure) APP 3 F in everything. My 38 special loads are 10.5-11 gr BY WEIGHT of APP. I don’t use a filler because I don’t have the time.  Captain Baylor and several

others use a 3/8 caulk backer rod. Some use a fiber wad. Some use cream of wheat. It may save powder but the amount of shooting I do my time is more valuable. 
 

You can get enough smoke with 8.5 gr BY WEIGHT and that leaves room for filler of choice. APP doesn’t require compression and some air space is ok. 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

[Scarlett]

Feel free to call text or email me

For more information. I’m glad to

help however I can!  My cell is (843) 833-0770. And my email is bulletsbyscarlett@gmail.com 

 

Hugs!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

OK Ike, Here Ya Go,

 

Don't know if you already knew this, but recoil is a product of simple physics.  The "load" only plays a small part.  The BIG player is the Pay Load.  Equal and Opposite reaction type stuff.  Bigger-Heavier bullet, more recoil.  The true effective method to reduce recoil is to reduce the Pay Load.  Take a peek at my above pet 45 loadings.  For your 38s, take a gander at ProCast 97Gr RNHB bullets.  With the same suggested load from Scarlett, recoil will drop.  Try it.  Yule like it 🤠

[Missouri Marshal SASS #50682]

On 11/11/2025 at 11:37 AM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Okey Dokey!!  Here ya go.  Standard instructions for APP is fill the case to the base of the bullet.  Pretty simple.  However, my "PET" load for the 38 Special is 11Gr, by WEIGHT 3F app.  It doesn't leave much if any air gap and shoots a treat.  Same same load for 105Gr bullets.  For 38s I load with Truncated Cone bullets for excellent feeding in rifles.  They run just fine in pistols too.

 

I don't load full size 45 Colt cases anymore.  For my 45s, I load 14-15Gr 3F APP in C45S cases (pistol) with 130Gr Barnstormer bullets.  For the rifles I just fill to the base of the bullets.  Not enough recoil to spit at as I load my 45 Rifles with Schofield cases w/180-185Gr RNFP.  Same same for 44 Special cases with 165Gr RNFP (Badman Bullets).

I've been loading my .38s with 11gr ( by weight) APP 3F for years without any filler with no problems.  I use the same load for both 105gr (pistols) and 158gr (rifle).  Works great for me, I don't have to adjust the powder charge when switching between loading rifle and pistol.

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

Thank you everyone for your input and advise. It is truly appreciated.  This is one of the things I love about this sport. Everyone is always so helpful and kind. You all are amazing.  I think I have what I need now to start testing and find the load that will work best for me. 

 

Thank you.

 

Ike

[Diamond Jake]

Be careful not to lighten the load so much that it goes below the minimum smoke factor.

 

Last year I did a test.  I loaded a few 38s with 125 gr TC powder coated bullet and .7cc of APP 3F and .3 cc of grits.  Then a bunch with same bullet, but 1 CC of GOEX real BP.  To be legal, the APP had to produce the same amount of smoke as the 1cc of Goex.  In the middle of a monthly match I shot one revolver with the light APP and one with the Goex.  I didn't tell them which was which.  All the spotters and the TO agreed that the Goex was noticeably more smoke.

 

So even though APP produces more smoke than the same amount of Goex, the minimum legal load of APP is somewhere between .7CC and 1 CC.

 

So I keep shooting 1cc of APP and no filler in my revolvers.  In my rifle I shoot 45 Colt with 1.3cc APP and 1cc of grits.  I usually can get through five stages with no cleaning, unless it's a particularly hot day.

Edited November 13, 2025 by Diamond Jake

[El Chapo]

I load 16-17 grains by weight in my 38 cases.  For real black I use 1.3cc or more.  I don't hold back black powder, that's part of the fun.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

The equivalent of 1cc of BP for APP FFF is 11.8 grains. That’s if you want to meet the smoke requirement for SASS sanctioned matches. 

 

Edited November 13, 2025 by John Barleycorn, SASS #76982

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

[El Chapo]

20 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

The equivalent of 1cc of BP for APP FFF is 11.8 grains. That’s if you want to meet the smoke requirement for SASS sanctioned matches. 

 

 

APP probably smokes more than real black, so if you really wanted to push it, you probably could, but where's the fun in that?

[Ike the butcher Tuckerson]

@El Chapo For me I don't mind pushing it. But this is for my two girls ages 10 & 12. They shoot only .22 right now so I want to ease them into the .38 before I put too much umph into it.