Iowa battleships

[Chantry]

17 hours ago, Nickle said:

Well none of this war is up to me. I'm just watching it.

Russia had so many lines in the sand that I can't even remember all of them anymore. 

If ukes expand the war and attack Russian soil they will nuke

If Ukes get certain help from Nato they will nuke 

It's been how many years now of this now. Russians can't even pull off simply things. Corruption, drunkenness, social poison and culture that’s just destroying Russians from within.  

I believe Russian nukes are more dangerous to the Russians than they are to Ukes. Nukes are not like bullets that you can just put in storage.  Even if they paid to maintain them they are so corrupt and crooked that they most likely were not maintained like they were supposed to be.

 

 

Per Wikipedia Russian has approximately 4300 nuclear weapons, of which about 1700 are strategic weapons.  That's one of the problems with nuclear weapons, even if only 1% hit the United States, that's still 170 nukes.

 

Wikipedia isn't the most trustworthy of sources, but close enough

Can land and ship based assets stop an ICBM.  Probably, but how many?  Russia has enough to swamp them.

 

It's like playing Russian roulette with old ammo of questionable quality.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2025 by Chantry
I'm bad at math

[Nickle]

China and India cutting trade ties with Russia. 
Moscow selling off its gold reserves 

Ukes hitting Russian economy or energy production wherever and whenever it wants   
Ukes are getting stronger and more self sufficient while Russia depletes cash and military reserves and more importantly has no capacity to replenish 

Russian using its own people that they moved into Crimea.  Basically like Hamas using them as human shields to occupy Crimea. Why do u think the Ukes leave that bridge up. It’s so the Russian settlers can go back home and not be a UN humanitarian crisis 

At some Point Russians will take out Putin

 

China is next big player over there.  They will fill the vacuum like Iran did when Iraq was taken out

[Cypress Sun]

If anyone thinks that Russia has been sitting on their thumbs for the last 45 years....they're wrong.

[Chantry]

56 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

If anyone thinks that Russia has been sitting on their thumbs for the last 45 years....they're wrong.

I doubt that they have been sitting on their thumbs.

 

I'm not following the ground war in the Ukraine closely, but I am not impressed by the performance of the Russian Army.

 

I am also not impressed by the Russian Navy.  Russian doesn't seem to be able to built new surface warships any bigger than a frigate or corvette.  Aside from their nuclear submarines, they are becoming a coastal navy.

[Texas Jack Black]

 Obsolete as are carriers. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

12 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

We are still overlooking the intimidation factor.  Battleships are scary, not to the military as much as the civilian population.  Those ships just ooze danger, strength, and awe to people who may never see one.  

 

They just cry out "WE WILL KILL YOU AND DESTOY EVERYTHING YOU HAVE!"

 

It's a public image matter because very few nations will ignore their population.  Too many countries do, however, and we can still intimidate them in many other ways, but a humongous steel fortress bristling with weaponry and leading all the many other ships just outside you major cities can raise the pucker factor and force those countries to divert funds to  places they wouldn't consider spending them otherwise. 

 

Wouldn't need the heavy armor any more, nor huge guns, but something massive with modern weaponry and tech advantages, all visible and intimidating, can work as well....just so it's an apparent visible threat.

Imagine if you will a fleet of a battleship all modernized up, a couple of carriers with their planes flying around, again outside the territorial waters, and a herd of smaller craft showing up, all just outside the territorial waters  of a nation, visible from the land, but just sitting there.  Throw in a few submarines for garland.

 

Might be a good idea to mess with their communication systems such a TV, radio, and almost any other electronic communications, military, civilian and any others. 

 

Imagine the clogged highways and byways, crowds trying to get out of the line of fire, runs on products from food to toilet paper, etc. pure unadulterated panic.  People fighting in the streets to get away, looters taking advantage of the situation 

 

Your military would be hindered by these panicked people and it would reduce the military's ability to respond.

.

.

.

.

.

Now imagine this armanda off shore by Los Angeles, New York, Miami, Seattle, Oahu,  or any of OUR population centers.

 

Now, just before it all goes south, recall all of our equipment except for some to watch and report, staying as invisible as as possible.

 

Don't mention it to any other country, especially the UN, and do our best to keep it from our own media..  Just sit quietly and smile.

[Nickle]

1 minute ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Imagine if you will a fleet of a battleship all modernized up, a couple of carriers with their planes flying around, again outside the territorial waters, and a herd of smaller craft showing up, all just outside the territorial waters  of a nation, visible from the land, but just sitting there.  Throw in a few submarines for garland.

 

Might be a good idea to mess with their communication systems such a TV, radio, and almost any other electronic communications, military, civilian and any others. 

 

Imagine the clogged highways and byways, crowds trying to get out of the line of fire, runs on products from food to toilet paper, etc. pure unadulterated panic.  People fighting in the streets to get away, looters taking advantage of the situation 

 

Your military would be hindered by these panicked people and it would reduce the military's ability to respond.

.

.

.

.

.

Now imagine this armanda off shore by Los Angeles, New York, Miami, Seattle, Oahu,  or any of OUR population centers.

 

Now, just before it all goes south, recall all of our equipment except for some to watch and report, staying as invisible as as possible.

 

Don't mention it to any other country, especially the UN, and do our best to keep it from our own media..  Just sit quietly and smile.

Imagine thousands of drones. Some below water,some above. 

These thousands of drones are controlled by artificial intelligence and can't be jammed.  Can skim the water and not detected because to small and low . Can  be high elevation and look on radar like flocks of sea birds .

If carrier group out of drone range then I'm guessing unmanned larger drone artificial intelligence technology could be used with larger aircraft and larger torpedo submarine types of weapons.  High numbers coming at once would be hard to stop.

I'm not a military guy. So take everything I say with grain of salt.  But it seems like if a target of any type can be seen.  It can be destroyed.  Bigger and more expensive just makes a bigger target or that's how it seems in Ukraine. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

1 hour ago, Nickle said:

Imagine thousands of drones. Some below water,some above. 

These thousands of drones are controlled by artificial intelligence and can't be jammed.  Can skim the water and not detected because to small and low . Can  be high elevation and look on radar like flocks of sea birds .

If carrier group out of drone range then I'm guessing unmanned larger drone artificial intelligence technology could be used with larger aircraft and larger torpedo submarine types of weapons.  High numbers coming at once would be hard to stop.

I'm not a military guy. So take everything I say with grain of salt.  But it seems like if a target of any type can be seen.  It can be destroyed.  Bigger and more expensive just makes a bigger target or that's how it seems in Ukraine. 

And it takes a few days to get them into action and the fleet will likely be gone by then, having stirred the pot already.

 

I'm not suggesting an attack, just a showing to get someone's attention long enough to put other steps into action....like throwing the UN off our shores with a 60 day time limit to get out.  Consider cutting off support of any kind to anyone who can be shown to be an enemy of the USA.  Modifying the rules of diplomatic immunity which allow everyone coming into the country the "right" to spy, break our laws and spit in our faces when they choose.

 

In other words, we need to stop being everyone's nice uncle.

[Chantry]

12 hours ago, Nickle said:

These thousands of drones are controlled by artificial intelligence and can't be jammed. 

The sensors that the drone uses to acquire/track a target can be jammed

Can skim the water and not detected because to small and low .

Most current anti ship missiles come in just above the water and can be tracked and kill.  If it is too small to be seen on radar, it's too small to cause significant damage.

Can  be high elevation and look on radar like flocks of sea birds.

Which makes them too slow and too small to cause significant damage. 

High numbers coming at once would be hard to stop.

That is what the Aegis missile system is designed to counter

 

Manned, unmanned or AI, the first step is finding the carrier group.  Satellite paths are known and within one hour of a carrier group being detected by satellite, it can be 30+ miles away in any direction.

 

The carrier group is unlikely to be using it's radar, there will be an E-2C AWACS stationed away from the carrier group along the most likely axis of attack and there will be armed F-18's either on patrol or on the deck of the carrier ready for immediate takeoff .

 

Once the attackers are located, F-18's will be sent to destroy them and I am very certain that the E-2C AND F-35 can identify targets for the missile ships in the carrier group to launch without the using the Aegis radar.  Also the US NAVY is already close to using lasers to intercept, planes, missiles and drones.

 

The US Military is already dealing with drones and generally successfully in the Middle East against the Houthi's who are (or were) being supplied by the Iranians.

 

 

[Nickle]

1 hour ago, Chantry said:

 

There are guys on utube that travel to places that normal people won’t go to. 
In Ukraine cities they give impression and you can hear the drone battle going on.  Seems like the sirens warning people to go to bomb shelters are very regular.  Locals so used to the sirens that they just ignore it. You can hear what sounds like light and heavy machine guns shooting at the drones 

Buildings are very marked up from drone explosions 

The drones don’t seem to be able to carry big payloads.  Not yet anyways. 
But they can put the hurt on Russian Kirov missile cruisers.  
Thats the thing about Iowas.  They are currently only big thing that can take a hit. 
There is a history of us always going into the next war prepared to fight the last one but technology and tactics change on us.  
Those super carriers you guys have.  Well I hope not obsolete 

[Cypress Sun]

45 minutes ago, Nickle said:

There are guys on utube that travel to places that normal people won’t go to. 
In Ukraine cities they give impression and you can hear the drone battle going on.  Seems like the sirens warning people to go to bomb shelters are very regular.  Locals so used to the sirens that they just ignore it. You can hear what sounds like light and heavy machine guns shooting at the drones 

Buildings are very marked up from drone explosions 

The drones don’t seem to be able to carry big payloads.  Not yet anyways. 
But they can put the hurt on Russian Kirov missile cruisers.  
Thats the thing about Iowas.  They are currently only big thing that can take a hit. 
There is a history of us always going into the next war prepared to fight the last one but technology and tactics change on us.  
Those super carriers you guys have.  Well I hope not obsolete 

 

"You guys"?

 

Hmm.

[Nickle]

21 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

"You guys"?

 

Hmm.

I’m your neighbor in Alberta 

[El Chapo]

On 12/4/2025 at 12:22 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

Halsey was advocating for more aircraft carriers in lieu of building more battleships. He knew that Aircraft carriers allow for the projection of airpower anywhere in the world and that while Airpower alone doesn't win the war, without it, you are unlikely to win.

 

If you look at the kill record of battleships on all sides during WWI, it was pretty poor. Especially when compared to the damage inflicted by aircraft, submarines and small torpedo boats. 

 

About the only place battleships excelled was shore bombardment and without air superiority they wouldn't have been able to get close enough to shore to be of any use. 

 

Shooting at other ships with guns is obsolete.

 

Shooting at ground targets to protect ground troops is not.

 

By your logic, there is only one kind of warship that really matters, which is submarines.  If the only goal of a navy is to sink ships, nothing beats a submarine and it isn't even close.

[Nickle]

 

video about New Jersey in Vietnam. 
interesting part about the anolog massive computer to aim the 16” 50cal guns.  
You know if you had a 68 Chevy truck that was still in good condition. You could still use that truck as a truck and it could still pull its weight around your farm. 
Those old Iowas are not neglected or thrown away.  They were put away in such a way that they could be brought back to life.  Haha just saying ( grin)

[Cypress Sun]

You do realize that the NJ's use in Vietnam was 61 years ago right... and that the New Jersey has not seen any hostile military action (if you considered Syrian Army a military threat to the NJ) in over 43 years.

[Nickle]

3 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

You do realize that the NJ's use in Vietnam was 61 years ago right... and that the New Jersey has not seen any hostile military action (if you considered Syrian Army a military threat to the NJ) in over 43 years.

Haha  you realize you are talking to someone who still daily drives trucks  from Vietnam era and who thinks of a 300 win magnum and 4x scope as a high tech modern gun .

I'm not talking about Iowas for ship to ship warfare. 

Fun fact 

The only US Navy ship still in active service that has sunk an enemy ship in combat is the USS Constitution, a historic wooden frigate famous for sinking the British HMS Guerriere in the War of 1812; while modern ships like the USS Simpson sank an Iranian vessel in 1988, the Constitution is now the sole remaining vessel on the active roster with such a combat victory. 

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 12/4/2025 at 2:42 PM, Texas Jack Black said:

 Obsolete as are carriers. 

So what do you recommend, kayaks?

[Cypress Sun]

8 minutes ago, Nickle said:

Haha  you realize you are talking to someone who still daily drives trucks  from Vietnam era and who thinks of a 300 win magnum and 4x scope as a high tech modern gun .

I'm not talking about Iowas for ship to ship warfare. 

Fun fact 

The only US Navy ship still in active service that has sunk an enemy ship in combat is the USS Constitution, a historic wooden frigate famous for sinking the British HMS Guerriere in the War of 1812; while modern ships like the USS Simpson sank an Iranian vessel in 1988, the Constitution is now the sole remaining vessel on the active roster with such a combat victory. 

 

 

You may drive 60 year old trucks however, I don't think that your daily driver has been residing in salt water for the past 80+ years.

 

No so fun fact

The USS Constitution has been completely rebuilt at least once back in the late 1920's with multiple expansive refits over the centuries, not that that wouldn't be expected for a wooden sailing ship. The USS Constitution is without a doubt a great piece of American history and still commissioned...but I seriously question her present combat

readiness.

[Nickle]

15 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

You may drive 60 year old trucks however, I don't think that your daily driver has been residing in salt water for the past 80+ years.

 

No so fun fact

The USS Constitution has been completely rebuilt at least once back in the late 1920's with multiple expansive refits over the centuries, not that that wouldn't be expected for a wooden sailing ship. The USS Constitution is without a doubt a great piece of American history and still commissioned...but I seriously question her present combat

readiness.

New Jersey just came out of dry dock and had major work done. 

I don't know about the other Iowas  but New Jersey has been in a state of restoration/preservation every since was a museum ship.

If I wasn't tied down with cows I would love to go visit that ship.

 

Just because old it doesn't mean no good. I think your navy still uses m14s? Can't launch lines with a AR.  You still use M2 may duece? I've seen Ukrainians on utube still using them.  Haha Russians never mind I won't use Russians for an example.  But don't American special forces still use 1911s?  1911s still have a great single action trigger on every shot including the first shot and very reliable 

[Texas Jack Black]

10 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

So what do you recommend, kayaks?

 If we minded our own business, we would not need them. 😉

[Nickle]

I'm not sure about current cost but back in the 80s when Reagan brought the Iowas back. 

The argument was that for the price of a new Friget you could have  a modernized Iowa.

In 80S they were turning the Iowas into something to compete with  Kirof missile cruisers. 

I think today it's strength would be more of artillery support for Marines .

Technology is old but during Vietnam those big guns could hit a house 20 miles away. 

There is no shooting down or stopping a round from one of those big guns and in a long drawn out war like everything seems to be now a days.  Artillery from a Iowa is much cheaper and easier to keep running than missiles.  

[Nickle]

And that museum guy that does the utube about the New Jersey.  I believe he just doesn't want  to give up his ship and his job.

[Cypress Sun]

29 minutes ago, Nickle said:

I'm not sure about current cost but back in the 80s when Reagan brought the Iowas back. 

The argument was that for the price of a new Friget you could have  a modernized Iowa.

In 80S they were turning the Iowas into something to compete with  Kirof missile cruisers. 

I think today it's strength would be more of artillery support for Marines .

Technology is old but during Vietnam those big guns could hit a house 20 miles away. 

There is no shooting down or stopping a round from one of those big guns and in a long drawn out war like everything seems to be now a days.  Artillery from a Iowa is much cheaper and easier to keep running than missiles.  

 

Maybe accurate while launching those big ass, thoroughly scary shells into Vietnam, not so much into Lebanon. Missed as much as two miles at times due to powder problems. That's a LONG way to miss. WWII parameters for "on target" and today's parameters for missing are not even in the same ballpark.

 

Reagan loved scaring the Russians into bankruptcy by various means, battleships and imaginary "Star Wars" space weapons are among the scare tactics that worked....for a while. Not so much these days

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

6 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 If we minded our own business, we would not need them. 😉

And when it became our business on our shores or in our yards we wouldn't have anything to fight with.  

 

Good call!

[Nickle]

1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Maybe accurate while launching those big ass, thoroughly scary shells into Vietnam, not so much into Lebanon. Missed as much as two miles at times due to powder problems. That's a LONG way to miss. WWII parameters for "on target" and today's parameters for missing are not even in the same ballpark.

 

Reagan loved scaring the Russians into bankruptcy by various means, battleships and imaginary "Star Wars" space weapons are among the scare tactics that worked....for a while. Not so much these days

Crew was pushed into service without complete training.   This wasn't anybody fault but just didn't have time and ship was needed.  

Those main guns if anything  should  be able  to shoot even more accurately today and they were very good in Vietnam. 

The physical size of the Iowas allows for them to pack alot of whatever is needed and they can travel fast and far enough to keep up with a carrier fleet. 

A battleship beside a carrier could also offer a carrier aerial defense as well as take out shore targets with her guns instead of risking aircraft to do the mission. 

Plus look at  how many aircraft it would take to do any amount of delivering tonnage to the enemy. 

[Texas Jack Black]

1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

And when it became our business on our shores or in our yards we wouldn't have anything to fight with.  

 

Good call!

 Really ? Modern warfare has left the dinosaurs far behind. You and I are .

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

19 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 Really ? Modern warfare has left the dinosaurs far behind. You and I are .

It took the dinosaurs a few million years to become extinct.  I ain't even close to that event yet, so I'lll keep on fighting with spears, rocks, guns and other things that still work as well as ever and that will for generations.

 

I still do, and always will, believe in the intimidation factor.  Scare the bejeezus out of any opponents, military and civilian both, and you will have an advantage every time.

 

All this science fiction crap might work, much of it already has been proven, but a lot is still being worked on.

[Texas Jack Black]

16 minutes ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

It took the dinosaurs a few million years to become extinct.  I ain't even close to that event yet, so I'lll keep on fighting with spears, rocks, guns and other things that still work as well as ever and that will for generations.

 

I still do, and always will, believe in the intimidation factor.  Scare the bejeezus out of any opponents, military and civilian both, and you will have an advantage every time.

 

All this science fiction crap might work, much of it already has been proven, but a lot is still being worked on.

 Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

[Nickle]

2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

It took the dinosaurs a few million years to become extinct.  I ain't even close to that event yet, so I'lll keep on fighting with spears, rocks, guns and other things that still work as well as ever and that will for generations.

 

I still do, and always will, believe in the intimidation factor.  Scare the bejeezus out of any opponents, military and civilian both, and you will have an advantage every time.

 

All this science fiction crap might work, much of it already has been proven, but a lot is still being worked on.

I was watching a show awhile ago about different people arguing for and against bringing back the Iowas  in the 60s. Anyway this one guy was an American jet fighter pilot from Korean War and he said look. Every mission I flew I had everyone from the guy on the ground with a rifle ,artillery, missiles to other jets doing a good job of almost shooting me down. 

You anchor a battleship offshore.  Everyone sees it, but they don't dare shoot at it! 

Haha now this was like what others have pointed out. 60 years ago.  But battleship provided alot of artillery in Vietnam that would have meant alot more aircraft missions to try to do the same thing. 

 

Edited December 11, 2025 by Nickle

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 12/10/2025 at 1:54 PM, Nickle said:

 

video about New Jersey in Vietnam. 
interesting part about the anolog massive computer to aim the 16” 50cal guns.  
You know if you had a 68 Chevy truck that was still in good condition. You could still use that truck as a truck and it could still pull its weight around your farm. 
Those old Iowas are not neglected or thrown away.  They were put away in such a way that they could be brought back to life.  Haha just saying ( grin)

I believe that makes my point.  Thank you.

 

All the garbage and technology in the world (except a nuclear attack) can't match the psychological impact of huge, evil-looking, death dealing weapons such as a battle ship.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

6 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

Thanks.  Same to you and yours.

[Texas Jack Black]

 Looks like more propaganda from the defense dept. I saw many of these BULL Sxxt videos.

 A few hypersonic missiles or modern aircraft and bye bye,  carrier or Battleship.

  Best Wishes

  PS . I was there

Edited December 12, 2025 by Texas Jack Black

[Nickle]

On 12/12/2025 at 6:15 AM, Texas Jack Black said:

 Looks like more propaganda from the defense dept. I saw many of these BULL Sxxt videos.

 A few hypersonic missiles or modern aircraft and bye bye,  carrier or Battleship.

  Best Wishes

  PS . I was there

Ukrainians just  blew up a Russian submarine.  The sub was docked which isn't same as shooting it at sea submerged.  But Ukrainians used a submarine drone which is interesting and they sure blew the heck out of that submarine.  It wasn't a mouse fart drone attack. 

Honestly it seems like anything big that can be seen or detected can be destroyed. 

 

 

Another thing about the Iowas 

Apparently a few years ago the navy put out a contract to get its inventory of 16 inch shells destroyed.  

[El Chapo]

24 minutes ago, Nickle said:

Another thing about the Iowas 

Apparently a few years ago the navy put out a contract to get its inventory of 16 inch shells destroyed.  

 

Yep, there is no doubt at this point that the projectiles and powder are history and the infrastructure to make them is gone.

[Nickle]

13 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

Yep, there is no doubt at this point that the projectiles and powder are history and the infrastructure to make them is gone.

Seems like such a waste.  It wasn't the powder. It was the actual shells or projectiles that they scrapped. 

Even if they just took explosives out of them.  They could have sold them. Make  great rural driveway markers or decorations.  I could have used a few haha.

But paying someone to destroy these shells seems like such a waste.  Haha  I wouldn't decommissioned the Iowas until I shot off all their ammo first