is trail Boss safe in black powder cartridge for old guns?

[Alpo]

I have two 32 Smith & Wesson revolvers, from the 1880s. And I have a small amount of trail Boss. And I think I have read that it is safe to load black powder cartridge with trail Boss.

 

Is that correct?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

NO

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

What Lumpy said.   ^^^This

[Rye Miles #13621]

I wouldn’t trust it either..

[Subdeacon Joe]

I wouldn't say,  "No."

 

I'd say,  "NO WAY IN HELL NO!"

 

But that's just my opinion. 

[Alpo]

Okie dokie. I've gone 25 years without loading anything for those guns. I guess I can go longer.

 

Thankee pilgrims.

[Subdeacon Joe]

10 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Okie dokie. I've gone 25 years without loading anything for those guns. I guess I can go longer.

 

Thankee pilgrims.

 

There are probably some Civil War reenactors in your area.  Explain what you what and why.  You might be able to get some from one of them, or pay for and piggyback a pound of FFFg on one of the group orders.  

[Alpo]

How about bullets? According to the box, theirTHEY'RE  factory loaded with an 88 grain round nose lead bullet.

 

I was thinking about my 32 caliber projectiles.

 

I have some 115 grain around those ROUND NOSE flat points. And I have some 100 grain full wadcutters. Also lead.

 

And I have some 32 ACP bullets - 71 grain round nose copper plated berries bullets.

 

I was thinking of them. They wouldn't be legal for SASS, but that's not what I had in mind. I was just thinking of something that would go pow and make a hole in paper.

Edited November 4 by Alpo
i hate otto

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

You should Only use Black Powder !

I personally use Unique powder. 

But hay that's me and my problem if something goes wrong.

But it has not yet in the last 40 + years .

Rooster 

[Kid Rich]

TB develops higher pressure than a lot of other powders that are suitable for low power loads in some of the old pocket pistols.

kR

[Eyesa Horg]

Slippery Bullets makes 78gr bullets. Research I did last year indicated 1.1gr of RedDot would work in an BP Iver Johnson.

I tried 3 different BP loads and the RedDot, RedDot had the lowest velocity and much lower recoil. I only loaded 1gr of RedDot. YMMV. Just be careful. Same as Rooster above. 

[Alpo]

I wonder how pyrodex RS would work? I just found a full pound of that stuff back on the shelf that I didn't know I had.

[Eyesa Horg]

I tried Goex FFF, Old Einsford 3F, BlackMZ and RedDot. All worked well and shot about the same. I might still have the data if you want it. The one grain of RedDot was obviously cleaner and weaker.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Aw Common Alpo,

 

You been around the Wire long enough to know Pyordex is a Rusting Agent that just happens to burn!!  The only real good use for Pyrodex is fertilizer and even that is shaky.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

10 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

You should Only use Black Powder !

I personally use Unique powder. 

But hay that's me and my problem if something goes wrong.

But it has not yet in the last 40 + years .

Rooster 

Unique is what I use for .32 S&W. 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

UNIQUE ,     flaming dirt 

 

  🤣

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

If you can’t get BP see if you can get some APP to try from a fellow shooter.

[J-BAR #18287]

5 hours ago, Alpo said:

I wonder how pyrodex RS would work? I just found a full pound of that stuff back on the shelf that I didn't know I had.

I've used a lot of Pyrodex in cartridges without rust being a problem because I do two things:

 

Prep the gun by covering all surfaces where fouling can occur with Mobile 1 red grease:  cylinder inside and out, inside the frame, etc.

 

 Wipe the gun down after shooting while you are still at the range.  Swab out the barrel or at least spray aerosol Ballistol into the barrel and lock work.  Finish cleaning the gun and wash the brass as soon as you get home.

 

Pyrodex can be a pain but it's manageable if you are diligent and prompt with your cleaning.

 

 

 

Edited November 4 by J-BAR #18287

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

17 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

if you are diligent and prompt with your cleaning

And go back and check it after a few days or so.  Don't just put it in the safe and not check back for months... just in case.  I used to use only Pyrodex in my C&B and front stuffers way back before I discovered the ease of the real black powder.

[Timothy]

Pyrodex has worked great for the last 50 years despite the repeated allegations that it funds hamas and steals children.

[DeaconKC]

I've heard Pyrodex described as a great rusting agent that also works as a propellant! 😁

[Dapper Dave]

Awright, I have done the dirty deed, committed the unspeakable sin...I used smokeless in a BP only revolver.

BUT, only after the gunsmith who rebuilt them told me that he had already fired these guns with these loads. I did do some very reduced Bullseye loads in both this one and the solid frame H&R, and they worked. I don't think I will do it again, as I hate pushing things that have earned a right to NOT be pushed...but it can be done, and the loads were lighter recoil than some of the black powder ones I've done. 

As my buddy said, what do you think got fired in a lot of these guns when smokeless powder came out? That's why a lot of the old pocket pistols are loose, not from plain age, but being battered with smokeless ammo before anyone really cared about, ho, I don't know, not blowing their hands off?

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

That gunsmith is a moron. At a minimum that gun is being damaged further for no discernible reason. At worst, someone might be injured. Why take that chance just for the hell of it?  

[Dapper Dave]

I sincerely doubt he is a moron,  you dont get where he is in life being stupid. The loads were mouse fart light, and he repaired that pictured revolver when it had been welded open for 50 or so years in a bar, rescued it among others. He handbuilt a bunch of interesting guns you've never seen before, and as I said, I used a few to prove the concept with loads lighter than my gallery loads. I also stated that I ain't gonna di it again, regardless of how safe or unsafe they are, as the guns weren't built for it. However,  he is right in that while the United States was transitioning from black powder to smokeless powder, it is darn near 100% chance all of those surviving guns were fired at least once with smokeless loads, and not mousefart ones, either. Since I got the Victory Model, I can experiment with 38SW smokeless loads to my hearts content in a frame built to take it and then some.

[Kid Rich]

In 32's we used to use Bullseye loads .8gs. That is LESS than one grain. Very mouse farty but accurate loads. We also never shot those loads in pistol that were BP only.

kR

[Pat Riot]

In my short stint of shooting blackpowder guns I used Pyrodex. I had a bottle of Windex standing by to hose the guns down good after firing. No rust, ever. 
One thing Pyrodex does very well is the smoke is a very good test for asthma. It’s a bit acrid. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I used pyrodex in my shotgun shells when I was shooting BP. Never any rust, I cleaned the guns right away.

[Stump Water]

On 11/4/2025 at 7:17 AM, Eyesa Horg said:

Slippery Bullets makes 78gr bullets. Research I did last year indicated 1.1gr of RedDot would work

 

I load a 78gr bullet & 1 gr Red Dot in 38 S&W.  Works well in both the Iver Johnson & S&W lemon squeezers.

[Stump Water]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I used pyrodex in my shotgun shells when I was shooting BP. Never any rust, I cleaned the guns right away.

 

That's the key when it comes to Pyrodex.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

For old black powder cartridge guns, going with any kind of smokeless, no matter how mild the recoil seems to be, is a very dangerous thing to do.  It is VERY tempting to use Trail Boss because of the lack of recoil compared to other powders, but it actually can create rather high pressures.   Now, in guns that are safe for use with smokeless, you can use TB for just about any caliber if you have a mind too, and it is pretty much impossible to create an overcharge, but you are talking about specific guns that are already safe for smokeless, and that makes all the difference.

Now, yes, you are gonna hear from people who will tell you they have fired mild smokeless rounds in some old revolvers with no problems.   I will admit that, in my more ignorant days, I did it myself.   But as I have gotten older and wiser, I have come to realize that this was not a smart thing to have done.

Even a very wimpy cartridge such as .32 S&W is a potential bomb in a gun built for black powder.   Now, some gun makers will tell you when their specific guns went from being black powder only to safe for smokeless.   For example, the Colt SAA made the transition in 1900, and there is even a specific serial number that marks the change.   I forget what it is, I'd have to look it up.   But by the same token, the Colt 1877 revolver, aka the Lightning, was made up until 1909, and was NEVER deemed safe for smokeless.  It remained a BP only gun till it's end.   

There are various ways to tell with other gun makes and models as well.   One thing can do, if the company is still around, is ask them, and they will tell you.   I'd take their word for it.   Smith and Wesson told me that my New Model 3 in .38-44 is safe to use .38 S&W smokeless loads in.   Take one look at how THICK the cylinder walls are on that gun, and you can see why.   Now compare how thin those walls are on a pocket pistol in the same caliber.    All of that being said, my .38-44 only gets black or a substitute.  Why risk a problem?  Same can be said for the even smaller .32 S&W.   The cylinder walls on some of those old guns are pretty thin on most of their small guns.   Now, I have read that S&W was using better quality steel much earlier that Colt was and that it's probably okay to use smokeless in some of their old pocket guns.   Notice how much vague detail there is in that statement?   Out side of a DEFINITVE statement, I will not risk it, and just stick to black in those old guns.

Now, it does get more "complicated" when you consider rifles.   There are people here on the Wire whom I respect, who will adamantly tell you to never use smokeless in an antique revolver, who do use it in an antique rifle.  They point out that the amount of metal around the chamber in a rifle is far, far greater than on a revolver.   I tend to agree.   And I'm gonna leave it at that.

For shotguns, assuming a chamber that is not too short...   Well, I stay with black.   There's not as much meat around the chamber as a rifle, and I don't want to risk it.

Take it all with a generous helping of salt.