Frontiersman/classic cowboy/Gunfighter question

[Mezcal Charlie]

I’m ready to come back with everything but my Frontiersman pistols. I was thinking 1851 like my man Wild Bill but do I need 44 cal in frontiersman to be legit for classic cowboy? Or does it matter? 
Im currently set up with:

Uberti 1860 in 44-40 for BP

Ruger OMVs in 45 cal I can shoot BP

American sidelock Hammer SXS in 12 ga from 1910. 
So: 

a) Do I need muzzle loaded pistols?

b) can I shoot 36 cal or need the 44 cal?

and

c) any special dress requirements beyond classic cowboy?

Thanks in advance. 
 

PS: I could read the rule book but fear reading instructions will cost me my “man card”.😉

[Leroy Luck]

Classic cowboy has to be a rimmed cartridge of .40 cal or bigger, so no percussion revolvers allowed. 
 

Frontiersman has no caliber requirement, so 36 or 44 will work. 
 

Classic just requires the 5 pieces of costuming, frontiersman is just gun/powder specific. 
 

 

[Jackalope]

I'm not worried about my masculinity, so...from the shooter's handbook.

 

Classic Cowboy

Firearm Rules:

- Revolver and Rifle Calibers: .40 caliber or larger, rimmed cartridges. Examples include, but are not limited to, .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt, or .36 caliber or larger cap and ball.

4 minutes ago, Leroy Luck said:

no percussion revolvers allowed

 

Wrong...read the rules.

Edited November 1 by Jackalope

[Leroy Luck]

2 minutes ago, Jackalope said:

Wrong...read the rules

I stand corrected… I didn’t read far enough in the book…

[Mezcal Charlie]

46 minutes ago, Jackalope said:

I'm not worried about my masculinity, so...from the shooter's handbook.

 

Classic Cowboy

Firearm Rules:

- Revolver and Rifle Calibers: .40 caliber or larger, rimmed cartridges. Examples include, but are not limited to, .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt, or .36 caliber or larger cap and ball.

 

Wrong...read the rules.

Okay now I’m confused. I can shoot 36 cal percussion in classic cowboy?

[John Kloehr]

55 minutes ago, Jackalope said:

... 40 caliber or larger, rimmed cartridges. Examples include ... .38-40

 

8 minutes ago, Mezcal Charlie said:

Okay now I’m confused. I can shoot 36 cal percussion in classic cowboy?

 

Looks that way. I had to take a couple minutes googling to figure out that particular .38 is 40 cal. Several here learning something new today.

[Jackalope]

21 minutes ago, Mezcal Charlie said:

Okay now I’m confused. I can shoot 36 cal percussion in classic cowboy?

 

This would not be confusing if you read the rules.  CAS 2025 SHB Vers 27.9, May 2025, page 8.

 

Revolver and Rifle Calibers: .40 caliber or larger, rimmed cartridges. Examples include, but are not limited to, .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt, or .36 caliber or larger cap and ball.

 

Edited November 1 by Jackalope

[Blackwater 53393]

Just for clarification, the 38-40 or 38WCF cartridge contains a .401 cal. projectile.  So it IS  a .40cal cartridge.

 

Frontiersman is a gun/powder category that requires all ammunition to use Black Powder or substitute propellant and cap and ball revolvers for the handgun portion of the category.

 

I’m not certain if lever action shotgun is allowed but I know that pump shotguns are not.

Basic dress is all that’s required.

 

Classic Cowboy is a dress and gun specific category. No Marlin rifles or Winchester ‘92s, no pump shotguns, the previosly described ammunition requirements, and specific clothing and gun leather requirements.

 

At this time, the Gunfighter style of shooting is not allowed in Classic Cowboy or Frontiersman categories.

 

 

Edited November 1 by Blackwater 53393

[Griff]

MC,  all ya gots ta remember is that .36 cal. C&B revolvers are LEGAL in every category.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

47 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I’m not certain if lever action shotgun is allowed but I know that pump shotguns are not.

Lever action is legal. 

[Mezcal Charlie]

13 minutes ago, Griff said:

MC,  all ya gots ta remember is that .36 cal. C&B revolvers are LEGAL in every category.

That’s an answer I can understand fully! Thank you. I like black and white clarity! Thanks!

[Blackwater 53393]

A lot of us here use all caps and bold  for emphasis! Knowing Jackalope like I do, he only meant to poke a little fun and be sure to make his response clear.

[Mezcal Charlie]

On 11/1/2025 at 3:33 PM, Blackwater 53393 said:

A lot of us here use all caps and bold  for emphasis! Knowing Jackalope like I do, he only meant to poke a little fun and be sure to make his response clear.

Thank you, maybe I read it wrong. Not for me but for Leroy Luck who was only trying to answer as he knew. If I offended Jackalope it was done in defense of another pard. 

[Lead Monger]

If you do decide to run 36 Cal. cap guns have a look at 1861 style Colt Navy’s. A little more “sleek” than the 1851 and feel great in hand. I have also found that using conical bullets makes a bigger splash on steel targets and the spotters are more likely to see the hits.

[McCandless]

9 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:

If you do decide to run 36 Cal. cap guns have a look at 1861 style Colt Navy’s. A little more “sleek” than the 1851 and feel great in hand. I have also found that using conical bullets makes a bigger splash on steel targets and the spotters are more likely to see the hits.

 

Amen to that... using those little 80gr soft lead balls, spotters have trouble hearing the hit, and you get those "miss" calls that you know hit the target.  I went to 135gr .36 conicals and the "can't hear-'m" misses went away.

[McCandless]

On 11/1/2025 at 12:34 PM, John Kloehr said:

Looks that way. I had to take a couple minutes googling to figure out that particular .38 is 40 cal. Several here learning something new today.

 

I guess it was a marketing decision??   40 WCF might have been confused with their 44 WCF?  (40-40 vs 44-40?  Have no idea, really.)

[mean gun mark]

Actually The lever action shotgun is the only one that is legal in every category. 

[John Kloehr]

2 hours ago, McCandless said:

 

I guess it was a marketing decision??   40 WCF might have been confused with their 44 WCF?  (40-40 vs 44-40?  Have no idea, really.)

From Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38-40_Winchester

 

"

The .38-40 Winchester(10.17x33mmR) is actually a .40 caliber (10 mm) intermediate cartridge shooting .401 in (10.2 mm) caliber bullets. The cartridge was introduced by Winchester in 1874 and is derived from their .44-40 Winchester.

 

"

A little deeper read from other sources suggest the "38" designation was due to the purpose (small game) and other sources suggest it was a powder charge for a 38 cartridge. I read yet a completely different origin story elsewhere. Key point for why I looked in the first place was to find out why a .38 meets the 40 cal requirement in this sport. This is simply because it does.

Edited November 2 by John Kloehr
Otto

[Rip Snorter]

6 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

From Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38-40_Winchester

 

"

The .38-40 Winchester(10.17x33mmR) is actually a .40 caliber (10 mm) intermediate cartridge shooting .401 in (10.2 mm) caliber bullets. The cartridge was introduced by Winchester in 1874 and is derived from their .44-40 Winchester.

 

"

A little deeper read from other sources suggest the "38" designation was due to the purpose (small game) and other sources suggest it was a powder charge for a 38 cartridge. I read yet a completely different origin story elsewhere. Key point for why I looked in the first place was to find out why a .38 meets the 40 cal requirement in this sport. This is simply because it does.

Woki is not something I would choose as a reliable source.

[John Kloehr]

18 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Woki is not something I would choose as a reliable source.

Depends on what I am looking up. The grokipedia version, at least at first glance, looks identical. This is of course an AI fact check which can be troublesome for other reasons. The content for this article does not have the same "woke" problems found in other content on the older wiki. You are also welcome to post what you consider a credible origin. Again, my original reason for looking was simply to see why a 38 met this sport's minimum of .40 cal for the particular category. On this, I could have maybe cracked one of my loading manuals or dug into SAAMI specs, I just went for a quicker solution. Let me know if you go look at SAAMI and find different information. Here is the Grok page for what that is worth.

 

https://grokipedia.com/page/.38-40_Winchester

 

[Rip Snorter]

1 minute ago, John Kloehr said:

Depends on what I am looking up. The grokipedia version, at least at first glance, looks identical. This is of course an AI fact check which can be troublesome for other reasons. The content for this article does not have the same "woke" problems found in other content on the older wiki. You are also welcome to post what you consider a credible origin. Again, my original reason for looking was simply to see why a 38 met this sport's minimum of .40 cal for the particular category. On this, I could have maybe cracked one of my loading manuals or dug into SAAMI specs, I just went for a quicker solution. Let me know if you go look at SAAMI and find different information. Here is the Grok page for what that is worth.

 

https://grokipedia.com/page/.38-40_Winchester

 

Simple, primary sources of which there are myriad.

[Jackalope]

4 hours ago, Mezcal Charlie said:

Thank you, maybe I read it wrong. Not for me but for Leroy Luck who was only trying to answer as he knew. If I offended Jackalope it was done in defense of another pard. 

 

I'm not gonna name names, but there is a certain rules authority who occasionally posts on this forum and often uses large, bold BLUE font when he reminds folks to Read The Book.  Sometimes he uses an extra letter in his suggestion to emphasize his point.  I 'm pretty certain he doesn't intend to offend anyone, but wants to be crystal clear.

 

P.S.  Leroy Luck added a "Thanks" to the post you refer to.  

 

[Flying W Ramrod]

Just remember, if you choose to shoot BP in a non-bp category i.e. Classic Cowboy, you must meet power factor not smoke factor

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

8 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

Just remember, if you choose to shoot BP in a non-bp category i.e. Classic Cowboy, you must meet power factor not smoke factor

True, if you are shooting cartridge revolvers and for your rifle.

 

However, if you shoot cap and ball in a non-BP category, you are not required to meet power factor nor smoke factor.

[Flying W Ramrod]

1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

True, if you are shooting cartridge revolvers and for your rifle.

 

However, if you shoot cap and ball in a non-BP category, you are not required to meet power factor nor smoke factor.

Not so, obiwan.

Pale Wolf will respond but, if you shoot bp in a non bp category, you must meet power factor

[Sedalia Dave]

7 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

True, if you are shooting cartridge revolvers and for your rifle.

 

However, if you shoot cap and ball in a non-BP category, you are not required to meet power factor nor smoke factor.

 

Can you cite the Power Factor statement for C&B revolvers in the current SHB?  I cannot find it. 

 

From the current SHB pg 26

Quote

 

Pocket pistols, derringers, and long-range rifles are exempt from the power factor and velocity requirements.

 

 

 

 

I can find no other exemptions to power factor.

 

Edited November 3 by Sedalia Dave

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

3 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

Not so, obiwan.

Pale Wolf will respond but, if you shoot bp in a non bp category, you must meet power factor

@PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

[El Chapo]

This is a fascinating thread.  I've never seen a cap and ball shooter in Classic.  It's a fun idea.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Power Factors

The minimum standard for center-fire ammunition used in all smokeless categories in all SASS matches, including State, Regional, National, International, and World Championship competitions is not less than a minimum power factor of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps.

SHB p.26 (emphasis added)

This does NOT apply to BP percussion revolvers.

 

Power Factor / Blackpowder Smoke – Testing

...

Failure of the shooter’s rounds to produce the same level of smoke as the standard rounds will result in a penalty for not adhering to the category requirements.

SHB p.26

There is no "smoke factor" requirement for BP revolvers used in a non-BP category.

[Flying W Ramrod]

4 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Power Factors

The minimum standard for center-fire ammunition used in all smokeless categories in all SASS matches, including State, Regional, National, International, and World Championship competitions is not less than a minimum power factor of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps.

SHB p.26 (emphasis added)

This does NOT apply to BP percussion revolvers.

 

Thanks PWB, I was half right and all wrong.

BP Center-fire rounds must meet PF, if not in BP category.

Percussion is a zebra of a different stripe

 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

17 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

BP Center-fire rounds must meet PF, if not in BP category.

Percussion is a zebra of a different stripe

Isn't that what I said??? 🤔 

[T-Square]

On 11/3/2025 at 12:54 PM, El Chapo said:

This is a fascinating thread.  I've never seen a cap and ball shooter in Classic.  It's a fun idea.

This is going to me "ME" in July - when I get my new T-star chaps !!  Ruger Old Armys are going to rule the CC catagory.

 

Oh, and if you fill your cases with BP instead of creme-of-wheat, you should not have a problem with smoke or power factor, just saying.

Edited November 5 by T-Square

[Flying W Ramrod]

6 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Isn't that what I said??? 🤔 

Yes, yes it is. However, I read BP and didn't remember the percussion exemption.