Remington 1863. Anybody shoot one?

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Pietta makes a replica of the Remington 1863 cap and ball revolver.   It looks like this...

 

It's a 5 shot.

Taylors makes a conversion cylinder for it in .32 S&W.  Five shot with a safety notch so you can load all five chambers.

Anybody ever shoot one of these things?  Either with or without the conversion?  I think they are kinda nifty looking.  

 

[Sarge]

Yes, I have one.  I installed the conversion cylinder.  I like it a lot for SA side matches.  The mainspring needs to be lightened, but otherwise pretty nice to shoot.  

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

I have the shiny nickel plated version.  Lots of fun to shoot.  Was on the waiting list at Taylors for a steel frame and conversion cylinder for about 3 years, one of my covid year guns..  By the time they finally came in, I had spent that pile of disposable income on something else.  When I was ready to buy, they were out of stock again.

 

I still plan on getting one with the conversion, I already have all the makings for ammo I bought when I put in my first order.  For now I am enjoying the one I have.

 

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

Besides, you cant have a proper Pale Rider rig without your '63. 😀

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

IMHO Probably the best Cap Gun Conversion gun for the game 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

I would like one , BUT , lack of coin prevent it 

 

   CB   

 

   

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

Here is my Nickle plated beauty.  Bought this at a vendor tent at EOT a long time ago (when it was still held in So Cal). 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

 

Well, I picked one up today, along with the .32 S&W conversion cylinder from Taylors.



I find it it be a rather neat little pistol.   First, the tigger is actually pretty decent.  There is a lot of creep, but it's not heavy at all, as is often the case with a spur trigger.   On the other hand, the hammer spring is very heavy.   It is nicely smooth on the cocking, but you really gotta pull hard on it.  I will probably have that adjusted some.

And, I need to have some work done to the cartridge cylinder.  The hole for the cylinder pin apparently narrows from front to back; the pin only goes about three quarters of the way down the channel before it will go no further.  Also, just to confirm this, I tried putting it in "backwards," the pin will not ever the hole from the rear.   It does fit through the hole in the cap just fine.  In any event, I am looking forward to to shooting the gun, and seeing how it performs.

All in all, I am glad I got it.  Total cost is, in reality, not that much, so I am happy with it.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

4 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Well, I picked one up today, along with the .32 S&W conversion cylinder from Taylors.



I find it it be a rather neat little pistol.   First, the tigger is actually pretty decent.  There is a lot of creep, but it's not heavy at all, as is often the case with a spur trigger.   On the other hand, the hammer spring is very heavy.   It is nicely smooth on the cocking, but you really gotta pull hard on it.  I will probably have that adjusted some.

And, I need to have some work done to the cartridge cylinder.  The hole for the cylinder pin apparently narrows from front to back; the pin only goes about three quarters of the way down the channel before it will go no further.  Also, just to confirm this, I tried putting it in "backwards," the pin will not ever the hole from the rear.   It does fit through the hole in the cap just fine.  In any event, I am looking forward to to shooting the gun, and seeing how it performs.

All in all, I am glad I got it.  Total cost is, in reality, not that much, so I am happy with it.

Im glad you pulled the trigger on that pocket gun.

You chose wisely. 

Rooster 

[watab kid]

always wondered about that exposed trigger in a holster ........any issues ?

[Griff]

As far as I know, it ain't a legal main match revolver, bein' that it's a .31 caliber.  Conversion cylinder or no... Still a .31 caliber.  Pocket pistol side match... fine... 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

6 hours ago, Griff said:

As far as I know, it ain't a legal main match revolver, bein' that it's a .31 caliber.  Conversion cylinder or no... Still a .31 caliber.  Pocket pistol side match... fine... 

 

Well, that is something that I have wondered about, but not too much.   As I read the rules, I think it would be main match legal, with the conversion cylinder in place.

Let's look at the handbook...

A pocket pistol is a small frame, fixed sight, pre-1900 design revolver having a barrel length of four inches or less. Pocket pistols must be .31 caliber or larger. Model “P” Colts and clones and revolvers with swing out cylinders are specifically not allowed regardless of caliber, frame size, or barrel length. Colt Model 1877 DA revolvers are LEGAL for use as pocket pistols. Pocket pistols may not be used as or converted to main match revolvers. 

Okay, as a cap an ball revolver, this gun clearly meets the definition of a pocket pistol.   It it also meets the definition of a pocket pistol as a cartridge gun.

Let's look at the handbook again...

Revolver Requirements Original single action revolvers manufactured prior to 1899, their approved replicas, and the SASS approved single action adjustable sight revolvers are the only revolvers approved for use in SASS main match competition. The rules relative to SASS approved revolvers depend upon the competition category in which one participates. Sights are a major factor for determining in which category a revolver may be used. Certain shooting categories require a specific type of revolver and ammunition be used. Please see the shooting categories for further information. No more than two main match revolvers may be carried to the firing line. Revolver Calibers - Must be centerfire cartridges of at least .32 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber or percussion calibers of at least .36 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber. - Must be in a cartridge commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40, and .45 Colt. (Includes some semi-auto pistol cartridges, e.g. 9mm, 10mm, and .45 ACP)

 

Notice the following, .32 caliber is legal.  With the conversion cylinder in place, this is a .32 S&W, a .32 caliber cartridge.   Remember, what we "call" .32's, .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 Short and Long Colt, .32 Magnum and .32-20 ALL used a .312" bullet.   That's closer to .31 than .32, and two of those rounds are specifically stated to be legal.  So I don't think the 63 Remington is a problem from a caliber direction.   Also, no minimum barrel length is listed for main match revolvers.   I have a couple of Iver Johnson top breaks.  One has a 3.5" barrel.   One has a 6" barrel.   They are otherise identical.   One is pocket legal, the other is not, based on barrel length.   The reverse is not true for main match revolvers.   I have Colt SAA's from 3 to 12 in barrels, and all are legal.  Nor is a minimum frame size stated.   Now, if the 63 Remington were to be used by someone as a pocket pistol in a side match, or in a rare main match stage where one is called for, then no, it could not be used as a main match revolver for the rest of the match.   But if it is not used as a pocket gun, there is nothing in the rules as written, that would forbid it.   It's not DA, for example, and again, no minimum size is required.   Now, what about the fact that it is "called" a pocket pistol in its name?   So are several Colt cap and ball revolvers that are perfectly legal for main match use that, while admittedly larger than the Remington and would mostly not qualify due to their barrels being too long, they are still CALLED pocket guns.   So the name of the pistol is not a factor in determining its suitability for main match use.

I would submit that based on all of the above, including a LITERAL reading of the rules, (what other way is there to read them?) that the 63 Remington when cartridge converted to .32 S&W is a main match legal firearm, as long as it has not been used as a pocket pistol in some fashion.  

This feels oddly similar to the old arguments about if a short barreled Colt 1877 was legally a pocket pistol or not, just in reverse.

But let that go.   

I have no desire to make this a regular main match gun.  I just thought it would be cool to have.   Yes I would like to at least once TRY is as a main match gun, and if I like it, I might use it once in a blue moon, but I would not likely be making a regular thing of it.