Ashley D Austin Posted October 3 Posted October 3 (edited) I have had foot surgery and the bone in my foot is now permanently higher than it was before and it is very painful to wear any type of closed leather shoe or boot. Soft hiking boots and sneakers are much more comfortable. This spring, I attended a state match and was told I had to wear "cowboy boots". I looked around and saw men wearing leather and soft lace-up shooting boots (which are not cowboy boots), lace-up soft hiking boots, sneakers (tennis shoes), and one that was wearing black socks and black sandals. I am not complaining about being singled out, but I would like a definitive answer from SASS about what the official determination is on footwear for age-based categories? Edited October 3 by Ashley D Austin 2 Quote
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted October 3 Posted October 3 Sounds like you were visited by a dreaded, self-appointed member of the costume police. Wear lace-up boots and enjoy your matches. Wait for PWB’s definitive response. 7 Quote
Texas Maverick Posted October 3 Posted October 3 These were approved by SASS a couple of years ago. I have a problem getting my feet into boots as well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DQY4CE?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1&psc=1 TM 3 1 Quote
Frontier Lone Rider Posted October 3 Posted October 3 I also have a medical issue with both of my legs that causes my legs and ankles to swell and have not been able to wear cowboy boots for over four years. I tried buying larger boots until I just couldn't get any on. Then I gave the smaller boots away. I contact the folks at the Annual or State Match to let them know that I will be wearing a slip-on shoe with black socks. Everyone so far has said come on and shoot with us. I had corrective surgery on my right leg last month and the left leg is scheduled for the end of this month. Evan after the surgeries there is no guarantee that my legs will go back to normal plus I will have to wear compression socks for the rest of my life. There is a couple that comes to the West Virginia State Match that shoot barefoot. I do not remember reading that there is a requirement to wear any particular footwear in the aged-based categories. Frontier Lone Rider 4 Quote
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted October 3 Posted October 3 There are only two categories which call out specific footwear, Classic Cowboy, and B Western. All the rest anything but athletic shoes, and footwear with lug soles are good to go. It has also been my experience that most Match Directors will work with you on footwear to accommodate your medical needs. If someone badgers you about your footwear, ask them to show you in the Shooter's Handbook the specific ruke they claim you are violating. 4 Quote
Griff Posted October 3 Posted October 3 Quote OUTLAWED ITEMS SASS wants our participants to be safe, have fun, develop their competitive shooting skills, and enjoy the rich traditions of the Old West. We ask you join us in the friendly spirit of competition and preservation of our heritage. The use or presence of any of the listed outlawed items, equipment, or the use of a non-SASS legal firearm will result in a Stage Disqualification penalty for each stage the illegal item(s) is used. Penalties are not awarded in arrears but should be corrected before the competitor shoots the next stage. Any violations noticed after the shooter has cleared all firearms may not be penalized. - Modern shooting gloves - Short sleeve shirts (male competitors only) - Short sleeve tee shirts, long sleeve tee shirts, and tank tops for all competitors. (Long sleeve Henley type shirts with buttons are acceptable.) - Modern feathered cowboy hats (Shady Bradys) Straw hats of traditional design are acceptable (e.g., Stetson, Baily, Sombreros, etc.) - Designer jeans are not allowed. Designer jeans include modern jeans that have slogans or logos embroidered, silk screened, and such, saying things like “PINK” or “BABY.” Jeans with fancy or flashy adornments are acceptable. - Ball caps. - All types of athletic shoes or combat boots, no matter the material from which they are constructed. - Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accoutrements. - The displaying of any manufacturer’s, sponsor’s, or team logos on apparel. (Manufacturer’s labels on such apparel or equipment are acceptable) As long as your shoes don't fit that description, you're good. 3 Quote
Rattlesnake Slim Posted October 3 Posted October 3 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 said: If someone badgers you about your footwear, ask them to show you in the Shooter's Handbook the specific ruke they claim you are violating. I’m not disagreeing with this, but my suggestion would be to ask them to take it up with the Match Director and have him or her contact you if there is a possible violation of the rules. Edited October 3 by Rattlesnake Slim Fat fingers 7 1 Quote
Dantankerous Posted October 3 Posted October 3 2 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said: Sounds like you were visited by a dreaded, self-appointed member of the costume police... Plenty of Karens in the world already, we don't need them in our game. 5 Quote
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted October 3 Posted October 3 25 minutes ago, Rattlesnake Slim said: I’m not disagreeing with this, but my suggestion would be to ask them to take it up with the Match Director and have him or her contact you if there is a possible violation of the rules. I my experience it has been faster to have them show me the rule! Most have never even seen a Shooter's Handbook, and would not know what it contains, they usually resort to, "so n so" told me. I have used this line many times, even as the Match Director. It never fails to expose the ignorant, and those in need of an RO course. Most of the self appointed "rules cops" melt away under direct questioning. Your milage may vary, and I respect that. I was just giving advise based upon my experience. Also the Match Director will appreciate this approach being as 99% of the time it means they don't have to handle another problem on shoot day. 3 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted October 3 Posted October 3 I’ll have to double check when I get home to be sure. However, IIRC lug soles are only prohibited in the costume categories. (Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl and B-Western) 1 Quote
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted October 3 Posted October 3 3 hours ago, Texas Maverick said: These were approved by SASS a couple of years ago. I have a problem getting my feet into boots as well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DQY4CE?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1&psc=1 Mav, my size was on sale so I just ordered, thanks! I can still wear my boots but it ain't getting any easier. 2 Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 3 Posted October 3 Shouldn't have been an issue because of the surgery. 2 Quote
oak creek martin Posted October 3 Posted October 3 This question has come up recently here in Colorado at local clubs. We all know that consideration can and should be made for shooters with physical limitations or injury- illness. I spent two hours researching the SASS rules to no anvil. I Contacted Sass main office and I’m still waiting for an answer. That’s been three months ago. I don’t understand why something is not in the rulebook that explains it in better detail so that we don’t have to have the (shoe police) ruining peoples experience of cowboy action fun! 3 1 Quote
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted October 3 Posted October 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, Dantankerous said: Plenty of Karens in the world already, we don't need them in our game. Too Late ! Enough said before I go to jail again 🤫 Edited October 3 by Rooster Ron Wayne 1 Quote
Ashley D Austin Posted October 3 Author Posted October 3 4 hours ago, Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 said: I my experience it has been faster to have them show me the rule! Most have never even seen a Shooter's Handbook, and would not know what it contains, they usually resort to, "so n so" told me. I have used this line many times, even as the Match Director. It never fails to expose the ignorant, and those in need of an RO course. Most of the self appointed "rules cops" melt away under direct questioning. Your milage may vary, and I respect that. I was just giving advise based upon my experience. Also the Match Director will appreciate this approach being as 99% of the time it means they don't have to handle another problem on shoot day. It was a match official that confronted me. I explained about my foot and that SASS did not have a written footwear policy for age categories, so he went and got the Match Chair who said I had to wear "cowboy boots". When I explained again about SASS not having a written policy about footwear for age categories, he said he had not heard that. Then the match official chirped in that it was a range policy. I checked there was no range policy about shooters being required to wear "cowboy boots". The only thing I found was that SASS Rules applied. I even offered to show them my foot, but they declined. 2 9 Quote
Eyesa Horg Posted October 3 Posted October 3 When PWB replies, print it and carry it with you. That's just an ridiculous policy. Not a good way to keep shooters attending your clubs matches. 5 Quote
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted October 3 Posted October 3 While true that there are no specific footwear requirements for age-based categories, the general rules apply to all (except BW and Classic as mentioned). Around here there are some shooters who seem otherwise healthy that get away with athletic shoes. I don't know if they have medical reasons and I didn't ask. Quote
John Kloehr Posted October 3 Posted October 3 8 hours ago, Ashley D Austin said: I have had foot surgery and the bone in my foot is now permanently higher than it was before and it is very painful to wear any type of closed leather shoe or boot. Soft hiking boots and sneakers are much more comfortable. This spring, I attended a state match and was told I had to wear "cowboy boots". I looked around and saw men wearing leather and soft lace-up shooting boots (which are not cowboy boots), lace-up soft hiking boots, sneakers (tennis shoes), and one that was wearing black socks and black sandals. I am not complaining about being singled out, but I would like a definitive answer from SASS about what the official determination is on footwear for age-based categories? Considering lace-up boots and moccasins are prohibited in a costume category, they must be legal in the non-costume categories. The post a few after your's shows a shoe made of synthetic leather, and the laces are clearly not leather. The laces look like what my Merrills have. And it has a clear heel as compared to my everyday Merrill shoes. The example also has less grip enhancement than my everyday shoes. I also have a pair of Merrill "tactical" boots, and other than having more ankle support and a side zipper in addition to laces (and being black), they have identical construction to my daily shoes. And they do not have the little bit of fringe like the one pictured above. The line is not exactly clear to me, but I will take the one above as good subject to @PWB blessing it. I put it in my Amazon cart for later. As to the mention someone made above as to shooting barefoot, most ranges prohibit open-toed shoes. Not wearing any at all would go against the obvious purpose of that rule, and some things do not need to be in the SASS handbook. Quote
Eyesa Horg Posted October 3 Posted October 3 7 hours ago, Texas Maverick said: These were approved by SASS a couple of years ago. I have a problem getting my feet into boots as well. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DQY4CE?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1&psc=1 TM Just ordered a pair! On sale for $119 from $132+. I wear a 9.5 and that size has a coupon for a total cost of under $59!! Even if turns out I can't wear em for CAS, they'll be good for every day! 2 Quote
Griff Posted October 3 Posted October 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ashley D Austin said: It was a match official that confronted me. I explained about my foot and that SASS did not have a written footwear policy for age categories, so he went and got the Match Chair who said I had to wear "cowboy boots". When I explained again about SASS not having a written policy about footwear for age categories, he said he had not heard that. Then the match official chirped in that it was a range policy. I checked there was no range policy about shooters being required to wear "cowboy boots". The only thing I found was that SASS Rules applied. I even offered to show them my foot, but they declined. Some folks should get a life! THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR COWBOY BOOTS EXCEPT IN CLASSIC COWBOY and B-WESTERN. Regular shoes, logger boots, lace-ups all good in age based categories. If their range requires cowboy boots... I'd lay dollars to donuts that they accept a boot with a walking heel... NOT VERY (insert favored Naval expletive here) cowboy in my estimation! I'd have a few more choice words for them. And demand a refund of my entry fee. Never to darken their door again. Edited October 3 by Griff 7 1 Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 3 Posted October 3 1 hour ago, Ashley D Austin said: It was a match official that confronted me. I explained about my foot and that SASS did not have a written footwear policy for age categories, so he went and got the Match Chair who said I had to wear "cowboy boots". When I explained again about SASS not having a written policy about footwear for age categories, he said he had not heard that. Then the match official chirped in that it was a range policy. I checked there was no range policy about shooters being required to wear "cowboy boots". The only thing I found was that SASS Rules applied. I even offered to show them my foot, but they declined. Did they produce the handbook to support their claim? What shoot was this? 1 Quote
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted October 3 Posted October 3 11 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: What shoot was this? One that I certainly wouldn't be going back to! 3 4 Quote
Kirk James Posted October 3 Posted October 3 I have severe problems with my feet. I had my foot doctor write a note stating that my condition only allows me to wear a tennis or athletic-type shoe. I gave a copy to SASS, and keep one in my cart. However, I did find a pair of boots at boot barn that look better than a tennis shoe, but have a very soft material built into the toe area. I also present it to the posse marshal at the beginning of the match. Hope this helps. 3 2 Quote
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted October 3 Posted October 3 @John Kloehr Half-A-Hand Henri has been as well known for shooting barefoot as for being a good shooter for a number of years. I can't say whether she has had an issue with that at any specific ranges. 1 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted October 3 Posted October 3 9 hours ago, Ashley D Austin said: I have had foot surgery and the bone in my foot is now permanently higher than it was before and it is very painful to wear any type of closed leather shoe or boot. Soft hiking boots and sneakers are much more comfortable. This spring, I attended a state match and was told I had to wear "cowboy boots". I looked around and saw men wearing leather and soft lace-up shooting boots (which are not cowboy boots), lace-up soft hiking boots, sneakers (tennis shoes), and one that was wearing black socks and black sandals. I am not complaining about being singled out, but I would like a definitive answer from SASS about what the official determination is on footwear for age-based categories? What kind of footwear were you wearing when the official confronted you? Did he know you were shooting an age based category? Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted October 3 Posted October 3 4 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: @John Kloehr Half-A-Hand Henri has been as well known for shooting barefoot as for being a good shooter for a number of years. I can't say whether she has had an issue with that at any specific ranges. The only time she has not shot barefoot is when shooting Classic Cowgirl or B-Western Cowgirl 4 Quote
Renegade Roper Posted October 3 Posted October 3 I wear Ariats similar to those pictured above and was questioned about a medical need for them at a major shoot a few years back. After 3 major back surgeries that have resulted in nerve damage in both legs (and in particular loss of feeling down the side of my left leg all the way to my 3rd toe), I can only wear certain footwear. Like Kirk I carry a note from my doctor. Roper 4 Quote
Stump Water Posted October 3 Posted October 3 8 hours ago, Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 said: If someone badgers you about your footwear, ask them to show you in the Shooter's Handbook the specific ruke they claim you are violating. 9 hours ago, Ashley D Austin said: I looked around and saw men wearing sneakers (tennis shoes), and one that was wearing black socks and black sandals. I don't think we need a rule for "black socks and sandals". @Ashley D Austin Can we see what were you wearing? 1 Quote
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted October 4 Posted October 4 35 minutes ago, Renegade Roper said: I wear Ariats similar to those pictured above and was questioned about a medical need for them at a major shoot a few years back. After 3 major back surgeries that have resulted in nerve damage in both legs (and in particular loss of feeling down the side of my left leg all the way to my 3rd toe), I can only wear certain footwear. Like Kirk I carry a note from my doctor. Roper If not shooting B-Western there should have been no issue. Doctors note should not be required for those. 2 Quote
Dutch Coroner Posted October 4 Posted October 4 (edited) The rule for Classics: “Boots are required and must be of traditional design with non-grip enhancing (I.e., NO “Lug” soles. Moccasins are not allowed. I’ve worn lace ups and the boots shown above and have been checked at every state and above match and never been questioned. I did see someone (Classic) get questioned at EOT in New Mexico once during the official check, he had a medical condition, he was pulling a tank of some sort and was wearing special footwear because of his condition, the soles were not smooth but IMO they weren’t “Lug” soles. Myself and a Classic Cowgirl that were there said leave him alone. I should add that I wore “mule-ear” boots for a long time but my back and feet got to the point where they just couldn’t take it anymore. Edited October 4 by Dutch Coroner 2 Quote
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted October 4 Posted October 4 16 hours ago, Ashley D Austin said: It was a match official that confronted me. I explained about my foot and that SASS did not have a written footwear policy for age categories, so he went and got the Match Chair who said I had to wear "cowboy boots". When I explained again about SASS not having a written policy about footwear for age categories, he said he had not heard that. Then the match official chirped in that it was a range policy. I checked there was no range policy about shooters being required to wear "cowboy boots". The only thing I found was that SASS Rules applied. I even offered to show them my foot, but they declined. We just held our annual match a few weeks ago. We had many out-of-state shooters returning from last year’s state match. They liked that match, the food and camping. The match was profitable. Matches that mistreat their shooters as you were lose attendees and die as they become unprofitable. Ask local shooters who travel about their match experiences. They will identify matches to avoid. There are not many. 1 Quote
Diamond Jake Posted October 4 Posted October 4 My only question about the rule as written is what exactly are "Lug" soles? We used to call them Waffle Stompers, but many shoes today have very aggressive tread patterns but not exactly the traditional Lug design. Some of the cowboy boots at places like Boot Barn have some pretty luggish soles as well. Quote
Griff Posted October 4 Posted October 4 18 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said: My only question about the rule as written is what exactly are "Lug" soles? I simply use the logic that if you feel you have to ask, they're "lug" soles. 4 1 Quote
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