Newer SASS Shooter - Need Reloading Help for 125gr TCFP

[Tombstone Tom McKey]

Hi all, first post here. I'm sure it's been asked before and I apologize if it's repetitive but I couldn't find my answer in searching. I'm switching from 158 gr RNFP reloads in .38 to 125gr TCFPs and I'm having trouble finding load data for Bullseye powder. Didn't want to break any rules here regarding sharing load data so I'm just asking if you can point me to a reliable site I'm otherwise missing.

 

Thanks!

 

Tombstone Tom McKey

#114470

Sand Creek Raiders, CO

[Jackalope]

Three grains of Bullseye and a 125 grain Lee TCFP bullet in a .38 Special case registers 711 fps from a 4 5/8 inch Ruger Vaquero and 895 fps from a 20 inch 1873.

 

Just for grins, that same load registers 546 fps from an American Derringer Model 1 and 554 fps from a S&W 637.

 

Very mild load, found in an old Lyman cast bullet handbook, your mileage may vary.

 

Jackalope

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Yep, 3 grains in a 38 Special is what I load for my wife.
Nice, accurate, mild load.

--Dawg

[Tombstone Tom McKey]

Thank you kindly! That’s the ballpark I was hoping for. My Lyman 49th only has data for jacketed HPs. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

3gn and a firm roll-crimp. 

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

https://hodgdonreloading.com/

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Alliant lists 4.8 grains of Bullseye as a max load for 125 grain cast bullet.  This is your never exceed load.  My experience with Bullseye is that it is stable burning in reduced charges but can become very sooty.

 

Load data may be shared on this Wire.  However, you should verify loads offered against published data to ensure they are safe and reliable.

Edited September 21 by Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971

[Todd Hayseed]

6 hours ago, Jackalope said:

Three grains of Bullseye and a 125 grain Lee TCFP bullet in a .38 Special case registers 711 fps from a 4 5/8 inch Ruger Vaquero and 895 fps from a 20 inch 1873.

Regardless of powder - I can't get a 125 TCFP bullet to work in a .38 special case.  Fine in a revolver, but my rifle double feeds those, they are too short.  They work for you?

[Tye Riverman, SASS #41433]

 

 

8 minutes ago, Todd Hayseed said:

Regardless of powder - I can't get a 125 TCFP bullet to work in a .38 special case.  Fine in a revolver, but my rifle double feeds those, they are too short.  They work for you?

I load them long, 1.48 or so.  Just crimp in the driving band.

 

YMMV

Tye

[Boggus Deal #64218]

15 minutes ago, Todd Hayseed said:

Regardless of powder - I can't get a 125 TCFP bullet to work in a .38 special case.  Fine in a revolver, but my rifle double feeds those, they are too short.  They work for you?

A lot of folks load 105 gr bullets and use them in rifles. As mentioned, load them long. 

[Jackalope]

2 hours ago, Todd Hayseed said:

they are too short.  They work for you?

 

My bride has not mentioned otherwise, but I do intend to load that bullet/powder combination in .357 Magnum cases to see if there's a noticeable difference.  It seems that a longer overall length would be beneficial...

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

My family has three rifles that feed smoother with .357 mag cases.  Give them a try.  

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

3 hours ago, Todd Hayseed said:

Regardless of powder - I can't get a 125 TCFP bullet to work in a .38 special case.  Fine in a revolver, but my rifle double feeds those, they are too short.  They work for you?

 

Out of three rifles, we have one that has a bit of a hiccup. We load them to 1.465 in. That seems to work well for us 

 

 

[Sheriff Dill]

I load 125 gr .38’s at 1.45 for both pistols and rifles. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

You need a Lyman Cast Bullet handbook - latest is 4th edition!   Neither the Lyman (general) handbooks (49, 50, 51 editions) nor the Hodgdon on-line data have the lower level loads that show you how to get the light gallery loads we shoot for Cowboy Action.  The CBH has many more cast bullet loads, more powders, more cast bullet coverage, than the standard handbooks or the on-line loading data sets.

 

Quote

I can't get a 125 TCFP bullet to work in a .38 special case.  Fine in a revolver, but my rifle double feeds those, they are too short. 

 

Toggle link rifles do that - there is a "too short" two-rounds-on-the-carrier problem that we all recognize can happen, especially if you have a factory shape carrier.  

 

The problem - as cartridge length gets shorter,  the second round coming out of the magazine hangs up because the carrier's cartridge return ramp can't catch the rim on the ramp and push the second round back into the magazine.   How short is too short?   You can measure that yourself if you know to look at the geometry of the cartridge return ramp cut into the carrier (lifter block), but generally for Uberti made guns, a COAL of about 1.450" is getting real close to making two rounds on the carrier cause a jam as you try to lever the gun.

 

Several ways to make a light (short) bullet feed in a .38 special case.   One is to crimp the bullet down lower than whatever crimp groove you may be tempted to use.  I have often crimped into a lube groove one down from the crimp groove - works just as well, and it lets you have a longer cartridge overall length (COAL).   Or, if you have soft bullet, roll the crimp into any place on the bullet where you can get the case to cut into the lead of the bullet - as long as you make the COAL long enough to feed.

 

The way many speedy shooters will solve this, though, is to recut the slope of the carrier's cartridge return ramp.  Bringing the beginning of the ramp back toward the rear of the carrier.  This gives you "more room" to catch the rim of the second round on the slope.  As the carrier rises, the second round gets pushed back (returned) to the magazine.

 

Going to use of .357 brass is often expensive as police ranges no longer shoot and discard tons of .357 cases each year.  So cowboy shooters are faced with buying new magnum brass instead of being able to find much cheaper used .38 special brass.  There really is no reason to use .357 cases if you can use your head and understand how to modify a carrier or load rounds for some extra length.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited September 20 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

If you load outside the crimp groove on a bullet (or if it doesn't have one) the Lee Factory Crimp die does a wonderfull job

Just make sure you get the .38 ROLL crimp die (they also make a .38 taper crimp die).

[wyliefoxEsquire]

For rifle we use 125 Bear Creek, no crimp groove, so crimp that works for you.

2.5 grains Clays or Clay Dot.

1.500 COL prevents this 

45 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

The problem - as cartridge length gets shorter,  the second round coming out of the magazine hangs up because the carrier's cartridge return ramp can't catch the rim on the ramp and push the second round back into the magazine.

...also make sure your primers at "seated"

[Sam Sackett]

I run 38 special and 357 mag casings to the same loaded cartridge length. 1.535”.  My 1892 likes this length, so I stick to it, using 3.0 of Bullseye for 125 or 158 grain bullets. As mentioned, it leaves a soot film on 5he casing, but it cleans right up. No problems….

 

Sam Sackett 

[Hoss]

I’ve loaded 10s of thousands of 38 sp 125s for rifle. 105s for pistol. Both with 3.0 Bullseye. In my opinion best powder for CAS 38 special. Relatively cheap. Not cold or position sensitive. Meters well. Clean burning. Use regular or magnum primers. Was first powder I used, saw no reason to change! 

[Tombstone Tom McKey]

3 hours ago, Hoss said:

I’ve loaded 10s of thousands of 38 sp 125s for rifle. 105s for pistol. Both with 3.0 Bullseye. In my opinion best powder for CAS 38 special. Relatively cheap. Not cold or position sensitive. Meters well. Clean burning. Use regular or magnum primers. Was first powder I used, saw no reason to change! 

Thanks very much. I recently switched from a '92 to a '73 and have been loading my 158 gr RNFPs long so they feed well but was convinced to swap over to the TCFP 125s. And I've got a fair amount of Bullseye so I'm glad to hear so many folks have had good results. Much appreciated!