Not The Big Iron, The Small Iron!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Okay, I am sure many of you recognize this...

 

...my infamous "Big Iron" pistol based on the Wikipedia description of the pistol that inspired the Marty Robbins song, "Big Iron."  This one is made of an Armi San Marco frame, Pietta 1860 grips, a cut down Rossi 92 octagon Barrel, and is a .45 colt.

Now, for various reasons, I have suddenly been contemplating what would the opposite of this be?  What would be a "Small Iron?"    I am thinking something similarly customized.  But how?   What caliber should it be?  What kind of grips?  How long or short should the barrel be?  

Random ideas in my head are suggesting the following....

Still on an SAA type frame, I am thinking birds head grips, a 3" barrel, but still with an ejector, so not a Sheriff's model, and a customized caliber of .25-20,  The barrel would be perhaps fashioned from a round rifle barrel, cut down to length so that it has the right bore size.   (I have seen some pretty worn finish looking barrels on e-bay for cheap but that still have decent rifling/bores)    Maybe.

This is all a random thought at the moment, and I have no idea if I will actually do it.   But in the next few days, I'll reveal what gave me the idea.   Until then, thoughts on the matter?  I know it's a rather silly idea, and for the record, the donor pistol will be something that has seen better days to begin with.   No way I'd do this to a pristine Colt, for example.

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

kind of a play on Pale Rider.  He carried one gun (a 58 remington with conversion cylinders) and he had his small gun (a 63 with conversion cylinder, and a custom trigger guard).  Nice!

 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said:

kind of a play on Pale Rider.  He carried one gun (a 58 remington with conversion cylinders) and he had his small gun (a 63 with conversion cylinder, and a custom trigger guard).  Nice!

 

 

I was thinking the "The Big and the Small" but I suppose anything is possible. 

It occurs to me that something like the Cimmaron Model P Jr. that comes with both .32-20 and .32 H&R Magnum cylinders could just be used with the H&R cylinder shoot .32 S&W's but that doesn't really fit the "custom modification" idea.  

Man...  Now I have to start thinking up parody lyrics for the song.   

Everyone asked about his business
Everyone gave him lots of lip.
The Stranger there among them had a small iron on his hip.
Small iron on his hip....

 

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

Maybe a 32 S&W short.  Hex barrel as sort as possible and still have enough ejector to work.  Since it isnt my money, what about starting with a regular SAA sized frame, but cutting the cylinder short to fit the 32 S&W short ammo, then shortening the frame for the smaller cylinder.  All this with a bird heads smallish grip as well.  Would definitely fit the description of "small iron"

 

 

[Trailrider #896]

I would say a "Small Iron" would be a M1877 Colt's Lightning in .38 Colt's. Possibly one in .32. "I'm yore huckleberry!"

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

something like this:  may not be pretty but it is different

 

 

[Rip Snorter]

The Lipsey exclusive Ruger Bearcat might be an interesting base gun.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

It's a .45 but it's small(ish).  Built by Hogleg Smith:

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said:

something like this:  may not be pretty but it is different

 

 

Well, that's interesting, but, I don't wanna go THAT crazy.

For what it's worth, I do own a Sheriff's model 1877 in .38 Colt, but that's not the direction I want to go.

I want it to still be practical, and probably SASS Legal.   Yeah, .25-20 is not an approved caliber, but .32 S&W is.  So that might be the cartridge to go with.  But just as the Big Iron is a customized SAA, so should the Small Iron be.    The birds head grips, to me at least, actually create an illusion of smaller.  I know cuz I have Uberti that came with them, and I replaced them with regular ones cuz I didn't like the look.   But for this project, they might be the way to go.

Now, part of my problem, of course, is that I live in Massachusetts, so my options are very limited.   I have to find something already in the state that I can make the modifications to.   I could use a 1st or 2nd Gen Colt that is in terrible shape and take it from there.   Or perhaps one of the clones in my collection, but I purchased them to get them in the configuration they are currently in, so I'm not sure I wanna go that way either.   I suppose I could keep the .45 caliber and just shorten the barrel and put on the grips, that would be a way to keep the costs down.   On the other hand, I was thinking that, if I do this, it would cost more than a few dollars.  Now, if I had a old beat up .32-20, I could perhaps have the cylinder sleeved to .32 S&W or .32 Colt, and just shorten the barrel.   That would be another "easy" way to do it.   Many options exist.   But I really do think that the donor gun can't be a real Colt.  I just can't bring myself to do that.  

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Another idea that just occurred to me...

If I could find a clone in .22 RF, maybe I could have the cylinder chambers and the barrel bored out to .25 and the hammer changed to a centerfire one.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

A hand full of .32's

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Sometimes it's too easy to overthink something.   It occurs to me that I have a much simpler solution to all of this.   Which I will share tomorrow.

[watab kid]

had never given this much thought - it was fun seeing what yall have in this vain 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Okay, here's some more information about how this crazy idea of a "Small Iron" came to be.   I recently acquired a First Generation SAA made around 1910, that someone converted to .22 Hornet.  Well, this got me thinking about an SAA in .25-20, and the way overly complicated thinking about creating such a pistol as described above.

But, I came to realize that what I had described above is just to complicated and expensive.   

I also realized that this .22 Hornet revolver kinda fits the bill already.   But, I was not sure I wanted to modify it any further, as it's a really nifty looking pistol as is, and it IS a Colt, albeit a modified one.

Then I realized that it's not the original barrel.   I could just have it shortened.  Yeah, that'll work.   I could maybe even put on the birds head grips.   

I patted myself on the back for realizing that I'd come up with a far more practical solution.

Now, for what it's worth, I will post a pic of .22 Hornet revolver after I get home from work.   One look at it, and you made see why I was hesitant to do any further modifications.  I know the pistol has little to no collector value left, but, well, you'll see.

But then, today, I visited a local gun shop that I have frequented over the years, that the owner has sold so he can retire.  On the shelf, he had a funny looking revolver.   It looked like a Colt, but the trigger was kinda "forward" like on a Ruger.   Turns out it's a Pietta Traditions in .357 Magnum, with a transfer bar.  I immediately realized this would be the perfect "donor gun" to create the Small Iron.  (I will be purchasing it tomorrow.)   I've spoken to my gunsmith, and he has said that he can line the barrel to .25 caliber and sleeve the cylinder chambers to .25-20.   That'll give me what I wanted, and I am using a gun that has no real collector value, and that never will, so it's completely painless to do the changes.   And yes, I'll probably go from the exisiting 5.5" to a 3" or 3.5" barrel.  I'm not personally interested in having a .357 magnum single action, so this is the perfect gun to use.   As soon as I go through the process of getting this gun home, I'll post a pic of it in it's present configuration, and then again after the modifications are all done.

Then all i need to do is find someone who can make me a custom presentation/carry case that I can put both it and the Big Iron in.   Maybe even label the lid "The Big and the Small" or some such nonsense.

As I get older, and realize "what am I waiting for?" projects like this suddenly seem more feasable.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

And here is the gun that inspired all of this insanity...

 

A First Generation SAA, chambered for .22 Hornet!   Not the original barrel, it's a .22 barrel with no markings.   No idea what it was made for.  And that silver colored trigger guard is not original either, but I like the look of it.   I think maybe you can see why I didn't want to make any further changes to the gun; it just looks kinda nifty as is.   Anyway, if you take the cylinder out, you can see how the chambers were sleeved to the smaller round.

I look forward to firing this asap.   Yeah, not SASS Main Match legal, but I'll at least be allowed to put a few rounds in the dirt after the match is over.

 

 

[Mossy Horn Gent]

Any problems with bottle necked fired cartridge cases set back in the chamber locking up the cylinder? That was a common problem with the S&W Model 53 in 22 Jet.

[Double Barrel, SASS 34765]

Yul Lose can build you a fine custom box. 
And by the way, 25-20 is a SASS approved caliber. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

14 minutes ago, Double Barrel, SASS 34765 said:

Yul Lose can build you a fine custom box. 
And by the way, 25-20 is a SASS approved caliber. 

 

I shall contact Yul and discuss what I want with him.

.25-20 is legal for rifles, but not pistol.  I assume because while .25-20 things like the Winchester 92 were made, Colt, nor anyone else, ever chambered a revolver in the caliber.   If they had, I guess they'd probably be legal.

Am I asking that .25-20 be made legal in pistols for folks who may have one custom made?  No.  I don't even have a rifle in the caliber.   I am doing this simply because I find it to be interesting.     
 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Well, I have found what I think is the perfect "donor gun" for this Small Iron project.   I found a Traditions Pietta with a transfer bar; something I'll have no qualms about modifying.  It's a .357 Magnum at the moment.  I have a set of birds head grips, I'll see if they fit.   If they don't, it's no loss.   I will have the barrel shortened to 3" and then, I need to decide on what caliber I want it to be.  Either way, the barrel will get lined lined and the cylinder sleeved to the new smaller caliber.   My choices; .25-20, 32 S&W Long, or .32 Long Colt.  

The idea of a .25-20 revolver is "cool" but serves no practical purpose.  On the other hand, I could actually USE the gun in SASS in either .32 caliber, pairing it with the Big Iron for contrast.  I actually have a rifle in .32 Long Colt, and old Marlin.   But I also have an 1860 Colt that someone converted to .32 S&W.   So, I have decisions to make.   Unrelated to this, I have a 3rd Gen SAA in .32-20 that a local gunsmith says he has a couple of cylinder that he THINKS will fit it that he would be able to sleeve if they do.   Choices...  Choices...

[Rye Miles #13621]

Ruger Bearcat .22 lr 

[Hoss]

Ruger Bearcat to 327 Mag

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

8 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Ruger Bearcat to 327 Mag

 

Ooh...   That's interesting.   A factory small iron.  Do they still make it?

[Hoss]

6 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Ooh...   That's interesting.   A factory small iron.  Do they still make it?

https://www.gunblast.com/Harton-327Bearcat.htm

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

https://www.gunblast.com/Harton-327Bearcat.htm

Ah, so it's a custom gun.   I like it.  

[Hoss]

I kinda thought about one for pocket pistol side matches. Might be some question if it was PP legal. Either way, woukd be a neat little iron!