45 Cowboy Special Loads

[IndianCent]

Hi All,

I just started loading 45 LC again (my most recent loads are 24+ yrs old). I like the idea of the shortened 45 and ordered a supply from Starline. I plan to load the 160 grain bullet and will use TiteGroup to start with. Can someone recommend a good roll crimp die that will work well with this cartridge?

As far as powder is concerned, I was searching for 45 auto rim load data without success. What powder and charge weight is a good starting point?

BTW: I have half of a pound of Clays left that I can use up for now.

[Yul Lose]

I use 3 grains of Red Dot. If you’re just using the Cowboy .45 Special in your revolvers you don’t really need much of a crimp.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Indian Cent

 

I beg to differ.  Whether Pistol or Rifle, a solid crimp is essential to a good/complete powder burn and to prevent bullet creep from recoil. My personal recommendation for a Crimp Die is the Redding 45 Auto Rim Profile Crimp Die.  Gives a nice solid roll crimp.  I also don't suggest using a 45 ACP resize die (give a slight taper), a 45 Colt resize die works just fine.

 

4.0Gr TightGroup works just fine with 160Gr bullets with very manageable recoil.  I also use that load with 130Gr Barnstormers.  Have FUN!!

[Leroy Luck]

The Redding die (number 86189) he’s referring to works extremely well. 
 

If only using them in pistols it’s hard to beat 3.5grs of Titegroup. With rifle you need just a bit more powder. 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I agree with CC (there goes my credibility....:) .

 

I had extra .45 colt crimp dies.  Therefore, I cut one down to proper length and used it for a good roll crimp on the C45S cartridge.

 

..........Widder

 

[IndianCent]

Thank you, I appreciate the advice. I use TiteGroup in my 32-20 and 38 spl., good powder for light bullets and room in the cartridge. 

Does anyone know what the Clays charge should be? I'd love to use up what I have left. 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Golly Gosh Widder!!

 

Dat were a lot of time widda hacksaw anna file and Sand Paper anna Bevel Tool.  Whew. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Sorry, IndianCent.  No help here.  Never used Clays for anything.  After discovering TightGroup I just skipped everything else.  Until of course, I discovered APP and saw the LIGHT.  Now days the only thing I load is APP.  Shazam!!!  Burma Shave

[IndianCent]

1 hour ago, Leroy Luck said:

The Redding die (number 86189) he’s referring to works extremely well. 
 

If only using them in pistols it’s hard to beat 3.5grs of Titegroup. With rifle you need just a bit more powder. 

Would this be it? Auto Rim ACP?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012355584?pid=124288

Edited September 14 by IndianCent

[Sarge]

I'm also using the Redding Roll crimp die.  Can't help you with the  recipe, as I'm using N320.

[IndianCent]

5 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Sorry, IndianCent.  No help here.  Never used Clays for anything.  After discovering TightGroup I just skipped everything else.  Until of course, I discovered APP and saw the LIGHT.  Now days the only thing I load is APP.  Shazam!!!  Burma Shave

Pardon my ignorance...but what is APP? You made me curious.😁

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

IndianCent 😃

 

Where you been Hiding??  APP is is the Acronym for "American Pioneer Powder."  APP is a citrus based substitute for Black Powder.  It produces lots of smoke, is very easy to load and super easy to clean up after.  Since APP is NOT a federally listed Explosive, it is much easier to legally ship and store.  Unlike Black Powder, which requires special Black Powder compatible Bullet Lube, and is NOT real comparable with petroleum based lubricants, APP requires NO bullet lubricants at all.  I do however, recommend non petroleum based oil and grease.  My personal favorite is Mobile 1 for both.

 

You just gotta get out more compadre 🤠

 

I forgot.  APP also has a very simple recipe.  Powder to the base of the bullet.  Any bullet.  Atz it.  

Edited September 15 by Colorado Coffinmaker
Include a Fact

[Leroy Luck]

18 minutes ago, IndianCent said:

Would this be it? Auto Rim ACP?

Same one I’ve been using. 
 

Also if you get into APP at all… a 1.0cc Lee dipper of it in a C45S is perfect. Roughly 13grains by WEIGHT is what it figures to. 

 

[IndianCent]

10 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

IndianCent 😃

 

Where you been Hiding??  APP is is the Acronym for "American Pioneer Powder."  APP is a citrus based substitute for Black Powder.  It produces lots of smoke, is very easy to load and super easy to clean up after.  Since APP is NOT a federally listed Explosive, it is much easier to legally ship and store.  Unlike Black Powder, which requires special Black Powder compatible Bullet Lube, and is NOT real comparable with petroleum based lubricants, APP requires NO bullet lubricants at all.  I do however, recommend non petroleum based oil and grease.  My personal favorite is Mobile 1 for both.

 

You just gotta get out more compadre 🤠

 

I forgot.  APP also has a very simple recipe.  Powder to the base of the bullet.  Any bullet.  Atz it.  

Thank you for introducing me to APP, I will check it out. I shot cowboy action at the end of the last century, was in Frontier Class using Pyrodex,  The pic shows me in the middle, Boothill Bob, SASS 11596.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Filler up with APP just a hair below the top and a good firm crimp down your bullet. 

Makes good smoke and less recoil too .

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I’ve been using a Hornady .45 Colt die set for the last 15 years. Unlike the other dies, it doesn’t need to be modified to accommodate that short case. Puts a nice roll crimp on it (essential). 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Golly Gosh Widder!!

 

Dat were a lot of time widda hacksaw anna file and Sand Paper anna Bevel Tool.  Whew. 

 

As you are already aware.....I'm a professional 'Tinker'r.

I've been known to tinker with Marlins and Henry .22's.  

 

I've heard you're a pretty good 'Tinker'r'  yeowndangself.

 

Hope you are doing fine and staying well.

 

.........Widder

 

[DukeSoprano]

WHere yall buying this APP Powder? I was hoping to find some of that or the Shooters World Black locally but nooooo

[G W Wade]

15 minutes ago, DukeSoprano said:

WHere yall buying this APP Powder? I was hoping to find some of that or the Shooters World Black locally but nooooo

Short answer     Scarlett

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy IndianCent.

 

Here is my load data for the C45S, using my custom Ruger Vaq with 3.5" barrel.

Chronographed velocity were at approx 8 feet from muzzle.

Velocities are for 5 shot averages.

ALL BULLETS WERE 160 GRAIN.

 

Red Dot.  4.0.    635 fps.   (My side notes state that this was my favorite powder and charge amount).

 

Clays.   4.1.      620 fps.  (my side notes state that Clays gave me similar results as Clean Shot...EXCEPT, Clean Shot

metered better than Clays in my Powder hopper). 

 

Clean Shot.    4.2.    555 fps.

Clean Shot.    4.6.    640 fps.  (my side notes state that this was my favorite 'Clean Shot''

load w/160 grain bullets).

 

..........Widder

 

[IndianCent]

15 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Howdy IndianCent.

 

Here is my load data for the C45S, using my custom Ruger Vaq with 3.5" barrel.

Chronographed velocity were at approx 8 feet from muzzle.

Velocities are for 5 shot averages.

ALL BULLETS WERE 160 GRAIN.

 

Red Dot.  4.0.    635 fps.   (My side notes state that this was my favorite powder and charge amount).

 

Clays.   4.1.      620 fps.  (my side notes state that Clays gave me similar results as Clean Shot...EXCEPT, Clean Shot

metered better than Clays in my Powder hopper). 

 

Clean Shot.    4.2.    555 fps.

Clean Shot.    4.6.    640 fps.  (my side notes state that this was my favorite 'Clean Shot''

load w/160 grain bullets).

 

..........Widder

 

Awesome! Thank you very much, this will get me on the way. I ordered the brass, bullets and the Redding crimp die and got another Redding crimp die for my 32 WCF while I was at it. I am looking forward to all the fun ahead. 

[Slow Poke]

I have been using the 45 cowboy loaded with the 160gn head and I like 3.9 gn of titegroup. Seems very mild in rifle and pistol but still gives a good report on targets. 

I get my lead from busting head lead.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I’ve been using 3.6 gr of Trail Boss under a 160 gr  pill for years. Ordinarily I wouldn’t post that, but it’s becoming available again. It’s a nice mild load. 

[Cemetery]

1 hour ago, DukeSoprano said:

WHere yall buying this APP Powder? I was hoping to find some of that or the Shooters World Black locally but nooooo

 

https://bulletsbyscarlett.com/

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

My current C45S load is 4.2 grains of Bullseye with a 175 grain slug, tight roll crimp.   Have used 4.2 of WST also.  Clays and Clay Dot also can run at about the same charge weight as do BE and WST.  good luck, GJ

[Whitey James]

7 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Indian Cent

 

I beg to differ.  Whether Pistol or Rifle, a solid crimp is essential to a good/complete powder burn and to prevent bullet creep from recoil. My personal recommendation for a Crimp Die is the Redding 45 Auto Rim Profile Crimp Die.  Gives a nice solid roll crimp.  I also don't suggest using a 45 ACP resize die (give a slight taper), a 45 Colt resize die works just fine.

 

4.0Gr TightGroup works just fine with 160Gr bullets with very manageable recoil.  I also use that load with 130Gr Barnstormers.  Have FUN!!

This^^^^

[Griff]

5 hours ago, IndianCent said:

Thank you, I appreciate the advice. I use TiteGroup in my 32-20 and 38 spl., good powder for light bullets and room in the cartridge. 

Does anyone know what the Clays charge should be? I'd love to use up what I have left. 

I use 3.4 grains of Clays in the "Cowboy45Special" with either a 160 or 200 grains RFN.  I have loaded some at 3.2 grains, but... it just don't feel right, sorta like you're skirtin' the edge of a squib.  I seem to recall that 3.4 doesn't make Power Factor with the 200 grain RFN for Wild Bunch, but 3.8 or 4.0 grains will...  but, it's been a while since I run a rifle with the C45S in WB.  I use a 45Auto/45Gap/45 Autorim seater/roll crimp die from RCBS, p/n:  18942.  I also endorse a good roll crimp for complete ignition. when you're only running about ¾s of the pressure of a full load.

[Eyesa Horg]

12 hours ago, IndianCent said:

Thank you, I appreciate the advice. I use TiteGroup in my 32-20 and 38 spl., good powder for light bullets and room in the cartridge. 

Does anyone know what the Clays charge should be? I'd love to use up what I have left. 

 

I used 4 gr when I used Clays in C45S under a 160gr pill.

[Cholla]

When Adirondack Jack was selling the C45S, he recommended the Hornady 45 Auto/AR/Win three-die set (#546554). It was made for the .45 Auto Rim, so no modifications are required. 

https://palmettostatearmory.com/hornady-45-auto-ar-win-mag-451-3-die-set.html

[Frontier Lone Rider]

14 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

IndianCent 😃

 

Where you been Hiding??  APP is is the Acronym for "American Pioneer Powder."  APP is a citrus based substitute for Black Powder.  It produces lots of smoke, is very easy to load and super easy to clean up after.  Since APP is NOT a federally listed Explosive, it is much easier to legally ship and store.  Unlike Black Powder, which requires special Black Powder compatible Bullet Lube, and is NOT real comparable with petroleum based lubricants, APP requires NO bullet lubricants at all.  I do however, recommend non petroleum based oil and grease.  My personal favorite is Mobile 1 for both.

 

You just gotta get out more compadre 🤠

 

I forgot.  APP also has a very simple recipe.  Powder to the base of the bullet.  Any bullet.  Atz it.  

I have never researched APP, but after your explanation I am considering trying the APP after I run out of GOEX.  Of course I have several pounds of GOEX on hand, but sometime in the future...

[Sixgun Seamus]

3 hours ago, Cholla said:

When Adirondack Jack was selling the C45S, he recommended the Hornady 45 Auto/AR/Win three-die set (#546554). It was made for the .45 Auto Rim, so no modifications are required. 

https://palmettostatearmory.com/hornady-45-auto-ar-win-mag-451-3-die-set.html

This is what I use but I size with a regular 45 Colt die. Puts a good crimp with the seating die.

 

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

16 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

IndianCent 😃

 

Where you been Hiding??  APP is is the Acronym for "American Pioneer Powder."  APP is a citrus based substitute for Black Powder.  It produces lots of smoke, is very easy to load and super easy to clean up after.  Since APP is NOT a federally listed Explosive, it is much easier to legally ship and store.  Unlike Black Powder, which requires special Black Powder compatible Bullet Lube, and is NOT real comparable with petroleum based lubricants, APP requires NO bullet lubricants at all.  I do however, recommend non petroleum based oil and grease.  My personal favorite is Mobile 1 for both.

 

You just gotta get out more compadre 🤠

 

I forgot.  APP also has a very simple recipe.  Powder to the base of the bullet.  Any bullet.  Atz it.  

Yep for sure. I loaded 1,000's of rounds of 45CS using APP. Real east too, just fill the case almost to the top and get the compression needed when you seat the bullet.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Actually, with APP, no compression is needed and APP recommends not more than just a smidge.  If the load "JUST" touches the bottom of the bullet ANY bullet, your gold.  More compression than just a smidge will result in pressure/velocity variations.

[IndianCent]

Well, the Starline 45 CS brass, 160 grain bullets and the Redding Crimp die 86189 arrived. Everything seems to work fine, but I have one more question about the crimp die. When the slightly belled shell with the bullet seated (not crimped) enters the crimp die, the taper crimp engages first and then the roll crimp takes over.

The picture shows the loaded cartridge inside the crimp die, but it does not enter the die fully (see picture). There is about a 1/4" inch gap between the top of the shell holder and the very bottom of the crimp die. I can force it, but that does not feel right. Can someone using the Redding crimp die comment? 

It seems that the cartridge is fine without forcing it the last 1/4" into the crimp die. Thanks 

Edited September 20 by IndianCent

[Leroy Luck]

The way a crimp die works in most cases, the shell holder won’t touch the die. 

Edited September 20 by Leroy Luck