Pepper spray question

[Alpo]

This was in a book. This was fiction.

 

A can of pepper spray that a girl might carry in her purse. I read that and I'm visualizing something about the size of a roll of quarters. That sound about right?

 

How many sprays can you get out of that?

 

In the book they are at a frat party and this guy tried to roofie her. But she and her girlfriends were trading drinks and she gave her drink to her friend. And her friend passed out. So she looks around and she sees him up there at the top of the stairs, and he's smirking because his folks are rich so he can get away with anything.

 

So she grabbed her purse and pulled out her can of pepper spray and ran up the stairs and sprayed him in the face. He fell to the ground screaming and she started kicking him in the nuts and spraying him more. Two of his friends tried to stop her and she turned around and sprayed both of them, then turn back to the guy on the ground and kicked him in the nuts some more and sprayed him some more.

 

Telling her boyfriend about this later she said they could not get her off of him until her can ran empty.

 

Now a girl with pointy toed high heel shoes could do some serious damage kicking you in the nuts. But how much damage could she do with a can of spray small enough to carry in her purse?

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

21 minutes ago, Alpo said:

This was in a book. This was fiction.

 

A can of pepper spray that a girl might carry in her purse. I read that and I'm visualizing something about the size of a roll of quarters. That sound about right?

 

How many sprays can you get out of that?

 

In the book they are at a frat party and this guy tried to roofie her. But she and her girlfriends were trading drinks and she gave her drink to her friend. And her friend passed out. So she looks around and she sees him up there at the top of the stairs, and he's smirking because his folks are rich so he can get away with anything.

 

So she grabbed her purse and pulled out her can of pepper spray and ran up the stairs and sprayed him in the face. He fell to the ground screaming and she started kicking him in the nuts and spraying him more. Two of his friends tried to stop her and she turned around and sprayed both of them, then turn back to the guy on the ground and kicked him in the nuts some more and sprayed him some more.

 

Telling her boyfriend about this later she said they could not get her off of him until her can ran empty.

 

Now a girl with pointy toed high heel shoes could do some serious damage kicking you in the nuts. But how much damage could she do with a can of spray small enough to carry in her purse?

 

1- Size:  This varies a LOT, but the smaller, key chain style canisters are about the size of a roll of quarters.

 

2- How many sprays: It depends on the size of canister. For the one in question, I would guess about 10 bursts of one second each, which is what the official training tells you to do. As far a the spray goes, the story is believable. As to a little sorority girl beating the tar out of three guys, draw your own conclusions. Pepper spray does NOT disable a person. It merely causes a significant amount of discomfort. And believe me, it's SIGNIFICANT. The lighter your eyes, the more it affects you. My eyes are such light blue that some people describe them as gray. So take a guess how much I hate the stuff -- it's literally a six-day adventure for me. Three days of complete pain followed by three more of irritation and itching. I was a big fan of the Taser for that reason.

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

If you look ‘em up on Amazon, you see that most are .5 fl oz.  But the “police and military grade” sprays go up to 1.5 fl oz and say things like 35 sprays and 18 ft.

 

of course YMMV.

[Dapper Dave]

Small units will run out quick - our handheld ones are 3.9 ounces, and it's amazing how fast they run dry in an emergency. The joke has always been that it's supposed to be a 1-2 SECOND burst, not a 1 to 2 CAN burst. If I really have to lay down the hurting with gas, I'll use an Israeli fogger or an MK9 fogger. 
Also it depends on the OC being used. I started with LE Bodyguard 10, until an inmate got soaked with a petroleum propellant OC in Florida, then  hit with Taser and somehow ignited. That was what they told us when they switched us to water based propellent Sabre Red. We called that stuff, "seasoning in a can", or "Canine Barbecue sauce" I even saw a guy gas his soda to give it more zip. It was NOT as effective, so we went to Phantom. THAT stuff is like the Devil's own farts, vicious stuff that works VERY well.

But with a teeny hand held unit, I'm surprised if you get more than ten 1-2 second bursts before it runs dry. If that.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Something a little different in non lethal choices, not cheap but I would think much better than just a little canister of pepper spray. 
 

https://selfdefensemall.com/byrna-gun-guide-non-lethal-self-defense/

[John Kloehr]

I always assumed use in a confined space (like the story snippet) would also expose me to the same irritant.

[Texas Joker]

4 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Something a little different in non lethal choices, not cheap but I would think much better than just a little canister of pepper spray. 
 

https://selfdefensemall.com/byrna-gun-guide-non-lethal-self-defense/

IMO it's a bad idea to bring a gun shaped thing to a confrontation. YOU know it's less lethal but any bystander does not and it looks like a gun. 

 

Legal requirement is that you belive in the moment that your life is in danger they have access and ability to cause you deadly harm. Pulling a thing that looks like a pistol in the split second somebody has to make a decision just seems like asking for trouble.

[Rye Miles #13621]

40 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

IMO it's a bad idea to bring a gun shaped thing to a confrontation. YOU know it's less lethal but any bystander does not and it looks like a gun. 

 

Legal requirement is that you belive in the moment that your life is in danger they have access and ability to cause you deadly harm. Pulling a thing that looks like a pistol in the split second somebody has to make a decision just seems like asking for trouble.

I agree, I didn’t say I wanted one but it is better than a little canister of pepper spray. It’s way more powerful!

Edited September 13, 2025 by Rye Miles #13621

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

10 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Also it depends on the OC being used. I started with LE Bodyguard 10, until an inmate got soaked with a petroleum propellant OC in Florida, then  hit with Taser and somehow ignited. That was what they told us when they switched us to water based propellent Sabre Red.

Unless you witnessed that personally, I'd about bet that they did that after seeing it on "CSI". Mythbusters tested it and found that it doesn't work that way.

[Tall Tale Todd]

Having been both OC sprayed and hit with a taser (for training purposes), I can honestly say that while I’m more afraid of the taser, OC spray is worse.

[Black Angus McPherson]

9 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

I always assumed use in a confined space (like the story snippet) would also expose me to the same irritant.

 

That's something that people don't seem to think about.  It's closer to an area of effect weapon than a precise single assailant weapon.  You spray one guy and the guy next to him gets effected, the guy behind him gets effected, if it splashes back then you get effected and anyone that touches those hit with it get effected.  I've seen an entire room cleared out (out of control frat party) after a single person was targeted.

 

Also, different people are more or less sensitive than others.  I've worked with guys that could use it as a breath freshener with no effect and others that couldn't walk into a room after someone got sprayed.  

 

It can be a gift that keeps giving. 

 

Angus

 

[Matthew Duncan]

23 hours ago, Alpo said:

…A can of pepper spray that a girl might carry in her purse. I read that and I'm visualizing something about the size of a roll of quarters. That sound about right?

 

How many sprays can you get out of that?…

I reckon it would be like a single shot rifle or a small fire extinguisher.  One squeeze and a blink and you’re empty.

[Dapper Dave]

11 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Unless you witnessed that personally, I'd about bet that they did that after seeing it on "CSI". Mythbusters tested it and found that it doesn't work that way.

Personally, I think they told us this to justify why the new contractor got a fat kickback from having to purchase enough OC for a 10,000 man Dept. We didn't need it, the old stuff worked just fine.

OTOH, you DO need to work an Israeli fogger JUST since the handle goes from the MIDDLE position to full on in either direction. I had a new staff get rattled, couldn't figure out how to shut the thing off and dumped the entire fogger into a suicide watch cell. THAT guy never threatened suicide ever again...oops. 
I rarely if ever watched Mythbusters, sorry, didn't know that was an episode. 

[Dapper Dave]

7 hours ago, Tall Tale Todd said:

Having been both OC sprayed and hit with a taser (for training purposes), I can honestly say that while I’m more afraid of the taser, OC spray is worse.

OC last longer, UNLESS you catch a prong in, shall we say, a "sensitive area". I saw a guy get tased on a watch while butt nekkid...and all I will say is one went high, one went low...Now you wanna know the wild thing? Same guy from the above story, no joke. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

35 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

Personally, I think they told us this to justify why the new contractor got a fat kickback from having to purchase enough OC for a 10,000 man Dept.

That's what I figured. Mythbusters were able to get a flame, but nothing like the TV episode.

 

[Pat Riot]

After I would use a canister of pepper spray once I would replace it. 

[Ozark Huckleberry]

Something I find interesting is that people will put $100s into ammunition, and hours on the range, to be comfortable with how well their gun performs if they ever use it for self-defense. And rightfully so.

 

But when it comes to a $15-$20 can of pepper spray, for most it's buy one, read the directions, maybe flip the toggle a few times to get the feel of it, and that's about the extent of it.

 

If you carry any kind of chemical defense mechanism, it really isn't a bad idea to buy an extra one, and actually spray it and drain it to get some idea of the practical reality of using it.

[Texas Joker]

2 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

Something I find interesting is that people will put $100s into ammunition, and hours on the range, to be comfortable with how well their gun performs if they ever use it for self-defense. And rightfully so.

 

But when it comes to a $15-$20 can of pepper spray, for most it's buy one, read the directions, maybe flip the toggle a few times to get the feel of it, and that's about the extent of it.

 

If you carry any kind of chemical defense mechanism, it really isn't a bad idea to buy an extra one, and actually spray it and drain it to get some idea of the practical reality of using it.

Fire extinguishers also fall into this category

[Pat Riot]

5 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

Something I find interesting is that people will put $100s into ammunition, and hours on the range, to be comfortable with how well their gun performs if they ever use it for self-defense. And rightfully so.

 

But when it comes to a $15-$20 can of pepper spray, for most it's buy one, read the directions, maybe flip the toggle a few times to get the feel of it, and that's about the extent of it.

 

If you carry any kind of chemical defense mechanism, it really isn't a bad idea to buy an extra one, and actually spray it and drain it to get some idea of the practical reality of using it.

Absolutely! 
 

Most canisters that say “Sprays 20 ft”, don’t.

Canisters that say “15 - 2 second shots”, don’t.

 

Often the length of the direct stream is about 1/2 to 2/3 of the advertised distance. 

Years ago I had a homeless guy try to accost me at an ATM. I hosed him down with pepper spray. I didn’t play the 2 second game. He got the Full Monty. It worked! He made more noise than mating bobcats. 
The police were literally 50 yards away (weird coincidence) drove over to find out why the homeless guy was lying in the parking lot screaming. 
I explained what happened and one officer said “You don’t need to empty the can, just hit them with a short blast.”

I said “Why?”

”It’s what we were taught.”

“I prefer to make sure I get my money’s worth and stop the crime.”

In reality I had committed a crime. I didn’t have a Pepper Spray Permit. (Yes, California). The officers let me slide. 
 

After that I bought the larger size. The little one I used sprayed for al of 7 seconds of the advertised “10 - 2 second bursts” 

I was using the smallest canister of Sabre mace & pepper spray. This was in 2001, I think. 
 

[DeaconKC]

21 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Personally, I think they told us this to justify why the new contractor got a fat kickback from having to purchase enough OC for a 10,000 man Dept. We didn't need it, the old stuff worked just fine.

OTOH, you DO need to work an Israeli fogger JUST since the handle goes from the MIDDLE position to full on in either direction. I had a new staff get rattled, couldn't figure out how to shut the thing off and dumped the entire fogger into a suicide watch cell. THAT guy never threatened suicide ever again...oops. 
I rarely if ever watched Mythbusters, sorry, didn't know that was an episode. 

Oh how I loved those tanks!

20 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

OC last longer, UNLESS you catch a prong in, shall we say, a "sensitive area". I saw a guy get tased on a watch while butt nekkid...and all I will say is one went high, one went low...Now you wanna know the wild thing? Same guy from the above story, no joke. 

And yup, "Always bet on stupidity."

19 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

After I would use a canister of pepper spray once I would replace it. 

Very good advice.

[Dapper Dave]

If you want to practice with OC, the smartest thing to do is see if the company you purchase from sells inert training units. While OC is easy to clean up, (unlike CS/CN, gah!), if you spray outside to "test" the unit, and the wind shifts unexpectedly...you won't like it, OR if the wind lifts it up over the fence on your neighbor out sunbathing...now THERE'S a visual! Ahem, as I was going to say, inert units just spray water, and you don't risk leaking your OC out or gumming up the nozzle. Speaking of that, do NOT carry the unit upside down, you run a HIGH risk of gumming the nozzle shut AND if you spray upside down...you will get propellent without OC. Bad juju.

There are different types of expelled product, spray, cone, foam, etc. Get spray, foam sucks.

Always and never forget - check wind direction BEFORER deploying...I watched two staff run out into a disturbance on an open yard to gas inmates and because they forgot to check the wind, they gassed themselves. They were VERY lucky that the inmates thought it was really funny.  

Edited September 16, 2025 by Dapper Dave

[J-BAR #18287]

I have purchased and given pepper sprays to my wife and granddaughters.  No telling what drawers they are hidden in.

 

I will be buying one for myself,  since I am old and arthritic and can't run like I used to.

[Major Crimes]

I know this will probably result in more Australian ribbing, but, Pepper Spray in all forms is a prohibited substance in all but one Territory of Australia.

[Pat Riot]

19 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

I know this will probably result in more Australian ribbing, but, Pepper Spray in all forms is a prohibited substance in all but one Territory of Australia.

A squirt gun full of vinegar works. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

20 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

I know this will probably result in more Australian ribbing, but, Pepper Spray in all forms is a prohibited substance in all but one Territory of Australia.

Wasp spray is a good alternative. The one with the 20’ spray

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot said:

A squirt gun full of vinegar works. 

Ammonia works better.

[Dapper Dave]

That sucks. No ribbing, amigo, I just hope someday you can get your rights back. 

[Lawdog]

Also good for pranks.

 

A little pepper spray on a toothbrush gets someone’s attention quickly.

 

 

so I hear

[Pat Riot]

44 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Ammonia works better.

Not sure I would like to be the test dummy for either one.  Ammonia might cause permanent damage. 
 

When I was a kid a buddy of mine was being picked on by a bigger kid. I voted we go kick his butt. My buddy said “No! I’ll handle it.”

He ground up onions mixed with cayenne pepper and squeezed the juice out into a his favorite squirt pistol. 
After school he walked up to the kid and blasted him with his squirt gun. 3 or 4 squirts right in the eyes. The kid screamed, grabbed his eyes and Joe kicked that kid square in the cajones. 
That kid never picked on my buddy Joe again. 
The funny thing is a couple of days later that squirt gun was worthless. The only thing we could figure is onion juice can gum up the works of your squirt gun. 
That’s when we tested vinegar to see how long it lasts in a squirt gun. It lasted until we forgot about it. Just don’t use a leaky squirt gun. 

[Rip Snorter]

18 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

Not sure I would like to be the test dummy for either one.  Ammonia might cause permanent damage. 
 

When I was a kid a buddy of mine was being picked on by a bigger kid. I voted we go kick his butt. My buddy said “No! I’ll handle it.”

He ground up onions mixed with cayenne pepper and squeezed the juice out into a his favorite squirt pistol. 
After school he walked up to the kid and blasted him with his squirt gun. 3 or 4 squirts right in the eyes. The kid screamed, grabbed his eyes and Joe kicked that kid square in the cajones. 
That kid never picked on my buddy Joe again. 
The funny thing is a couple of days later that squirt gun was worthless. The only thing we could figure is onion juice can gum up the works of your squirt gun. 
That’s when we tested vinegar to see how long it lasts in a squirt gun. It lasted until we forgot about it. Just don’t use a leaky squirt gun. 

Dunno - maybe longer ago, but win or lose I handled my own school days problems by myself, no chemicals, no we, just me. 

Edited September 17, 2025 by Rip Snorter

[Major Crimes]

2 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

That sucks. No ribbing, amigo, I just hope someday you can get your rights back. 

We don't have a constitution of Rights. Its more one of process and norms (similar to the UK, not surprising since we practice the Westminster system of Government). 

We rely on our Courts and Political system to keep the ship steady.

A visiting lecturer once said the principal difference between our systems was that Australians are prepared to forgo Individual freedoms for the collective over the US system that recognises the individuals' rights to a higher degree (I'm not claiming superiority here just saying its different).

I think that's a fair assessment and better reflects our history as a Nation which is very different to yours. We were given our Independance, we didn't have to take it.

 

Australia lacks a single Bill of Rights in its Constitution; instead, rights are protected through express provisions, such as the right to vote and freedom of religion, and through implied rights, like the freedom of political communication, identified by the High Court

Edited September 17, 2025 by Major Crimes

[J-BAR #18287]

Independence and power are never "given"...  they're taken and earned.

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said:

Dunno - maybe longer ago, but win or lose I handled my own school days problems by myself, no chemicals, no we, just me. 

That's a wonderful thing.

 

If you were built like Paul Rubenstein (Pee-Wee Herman), and the guy that was giving you grief was built like Dwayne Johnson, you would just go up there, by yourself, no friends, no chemicals, and beat him up?

 

That is a wonderful thing.

[Major Crimes]

37 minutes ago, Alpo said:

That's a wonderful thing.

 

If you were built like Paul Rubenstein (Pee-Wee Herman), and the guy that was giving you grief was built like Dwayne Johnson, you would just go up there, by yourself, no friends, no chemicals, and beat him up?

 

That is a wonderful thing.

He didn't say whether it was F2F or in a dark alley with a baseball bat 

[Pat Riot]

19 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

Dunno - maybe longer ago, but win or lose I handled my own school days problems by myself, no chemicals, no we, just me. 

As did I. Some kids weren’t savvy in fighting and / or weren’t strong, fast or didn’t have the nerve to fight. These kids did what they needed to so they could get by.