How about a discussion on squib load removal?

[G W Wade]

Talking to a fellow shooter today.   He said a fellow shooter had a rifle squib at a match.  The bullet was about an inch from the muzzle.  Question was==  In the Navy, they had "short rounds" that they could load to clear a stuck projectile.  Would this be possible instead of pounding all the way back to chamber.  I said I will pass. BUT will pass the question to the SASS panel of experts.     GW

PS    I am making popcorn

[G W Wade]

By "short round" he was referring to a light blank load or something similar

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

Don’t think that would be wise to try.

[Rip Snorter]

Way back in time, there used to be a compressed air method / device for percussion rifles.  Back, after removing the nipple and inserting the device, to front.  Might be worth checking / and modifying if still available.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Use a rod and drive it out.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Want to ring or bulge a rifle barrel? Or worse, burst it? Try something like that. 
I carry a brass rod and a way to drive it out in my truck. It’s not worth the risk of shrapnel…

[Rip Snorter]

Depends on the action - not easy for some,  bolt gun, no problem. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I'm not a  Marlin guy but it would be easy with one of those.

[watab kid]

3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Use a rod and drive it out.

dittos this - thats the safest and most reliable least likely to cause further issues 

 

there was an unfortunate issue on my last posse , the fellow had a revolver squib on one stage - then a rifle squib on the next , then two revolvers on the next stage , made a mess of the day but each was pushed out and he was able to shoot the next , 

[G W Wade]

Looks like the crowd here agrees with me.    Didn't even get to enjoy my popcorn following the discussion      Thanks     GW

[Medicine Creek Johnny]

You would think a binder mechanic would have a hammer

[Frontier Lone Rider]

I used to shoot muzzle loaders competitively and carried the compressed air, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.

 

I carry a brass rod on my gun cart but personally have never needed it.  I have loaned it to others several times.  I also carry in my truck, dowel rods of various thicknesses and lengths for those that might need one.  If the dowel rod breaks in the barrel, it causes no damage.

[Rye Miles #13621]

11 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Use a rod and drive it out.

This^^^^^^^

[Mister Badly]

I have a friend who had multiple squib's in a pistol barrel. All at once not separate occasions. I suggested he get a piece of metal tubing that fit in the barrel somewhat snuggly. Then get a drill to fit the tubing id and drill out the squibs. Then use a squib rod. It worked for him. I believe there were 5 stuck in the barrel.

[G W Wade]

1 hour ago, Medicine Creek Johnny said:

You would think a binder mechanic would have a hammer

But, I wasn't there        GW

[Dusty Sights, SASS # 2782]

9 hours ago, watab kid said:

dittos this - thats the safest and most reliable least likely to cause further issues 

 

there was an unfortunate issue on my last posse , the fellow had a revolver squib on one stage - then a rifle squib on the next , then two revolvers on the next stage , made a mess of the day but each was pushed out and he was able to shoot the next , 

I'd probably quit shooting for the day after the first squib and for sure after the second squib.  Using ammo that was that bad could have been disastrous. 

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

If the stuck bullet is close to the muzzle, rather that driving it all the way back down the barrel I wonder if a screw type ball remover like they have for muzzle loaders would work?  

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

Now, bear in mind, I ain't no engineer, rocket scientist or even a brainiac but could someone that is please explain why a blank (no projectile) cartridge fired to dislodge a stuck projectile would cause damage or an unsafe condition when that same powder charge would be used to propel that same projectile in a normal situation.

[Windy City Kid]

2 hours ago, Mister Badly said:

I have a friend who had multiple squib's in a pistol barrel. All at once not separate occasions. I suggested he get a piece of metal tubing that fit in the barrel somewhat snuggly. Then get a drill to fit the tubing id and drill out the squibs. Then use a squib rod. It worked for him. I believe there were 5 stuck in the barrel.

Slow RO that day?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

17 minutes ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

Now, bear in mind, I ain't no engineer, rocket scientist or even a brainiac but could someone that is please explain why a blank (no projectile) cartridge fired to dislodge a stuck projectile would cause damage or an unsafe condition when that same powder charge would be used to propel that same projectile in a normal situation.

Not worth the chance of a barrel bulge. 

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Not worth the chance of a barrel bulge. 

But WHY would it potentially bulge a barrel if that same powder charge was used to fire the projectile normally?

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

A bullet usually has the chance to accelerate down the barrel as the gasses from the powder expand.  That way the bullet and the explosion all come up to speed together.  If the bullet is now a barrel obstruction, you have all those gasses already at speed hitting a fully stopped object.  that collision causes issues.  The bullet in the barrel takes more time to start moving than the already expanding gasses have to wait.

[Cypress Sun]

 

I would consider an attempt to drive the squib round out by using another squib load a safety issue. Not going to happen on my watch. Drive it out using a rod or take it to a professional.

[El Chapo]

1 hour ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

Now, bear in mind, I ain't no engineer, rocket scientist or even a brainiac but could someone that is please explain why a blank (no projectile) cartridge fired to dislodge a stuck projectile would cause damage or an unsafe condition when that same powder charge would be used to propel that same projectile in a normal situation.

 

Pressure = force/area

 

Normally the "area" is a tiny place in the case.

With a bullet an unknown distance down the barrel, the "area" is now that entire space from the breech to the base of where the bullet is.

[Rip Snorter]

Never, never, never fire a gun of any type that has an obstruction in the barrel.  The end!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

But WHY would it potentially bulge a barrel if that same powder charge was used to fire the projectile normally?

PSI spike in the blocked open space inside the bore.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

As has been pointed out multiple time above, fairing(firing) ANYTHING in a barrel that is obstructed is very BAD JuJu.  Can you spell ring'd barrel??  A lot to unpack here.  Revolvers have a built in "pressure relief."  There is some very real Physics in play here and if you don't understand the Physics, don't take dumb chances.

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

And besides the expanding gases in the bore from the blank, there was already a bore full of gas (air), and that air gets mightily compressed as well.  Will those compressing gases push the bullet out before they bulge the barrel?  "Maybe" is not a good answer here.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

15 hours ago, watab kid said:

dittos this - thats the safest and most reliable least likely to cause further issues 

 

there was an unfortunate issue on my last posse , the fellow had a revolver squib on one stage - then a rifle squib on the next , then two revolvers on the next stage , made a mess of the day but each was pushed out and he was able to shoot the next , 

Our range has a 2-squib rule. 2 squibs in one match means you’re done shooting for the day at the moment of the second squib. 

[Texas Jack Black]

19 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Use a rod and drive it out.

 But you know this game is Rocket Science to some.😉

 Use a Brass rod as posted by others.

 

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

I had a couple of brass rods, longer than 24” for the rifle barrels and obviously pistol barrels. Got the job done. Back in the day (early 2000s) we would also question the shooter if they were shooting reloads and if yes, the RO will stop the use of any more rounds!  If they are manufactured rounds they could continue. Didn’t see that mentioned on this post but I didn’t go to the end. It was possible that the shooter might have had an issue during the reloading process and the “batch” might be tainted. 
better to ere on the side of safety

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Couple of Clubs/Ranges I shot/shoot at also had/have a "Two Squib" rule.  Two squibs and your ammo went back to your vehicle and if you wished to continue you could "pass the hat" and hope for enough "donations" to continue.  That ain't a real good idea either.  Actually.

[watab kid]

11 hours ago, Dusty Sights, SASS # 2782 said:

I'd probably quit shooting for the day after the first squib and for sure after the second squib.  Using ammo that was that bad could have been disastrous. 

ill be honest , i heard them all and watched his face and i was surprised as well , but ill give him credit he stuck it out all the way to the end , we had a great posse and very supportive group of fellow cowboys and gals , i think thats what msde it all work , i like him , ive shot with him before , he has a great head on his shoulders , he was doing really well at that point in the match too , 

[watab kid]

Just now, watab kid said:

ill be honest , i heard them all and watched his face and i was surprised as well , but ill give him credit he stuck it out all the way to the end , we had a great posse and very supportive group of fellow cowboys and gals , i think thats what msde it all work , i like him , ive shot with him before , he has a great head on his shoulders , he was doing really well at that point in the match too , 

id have given him spirit of the game but everyone else wanted to give it to my friend for fighting thru his ailments - they won out over me 

[watab kid]

5 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Our range has a 2-squib rule. 2 squibs in one match means you’re done shooting for the day at the moment of the second squib. 

ican relate to that but ill be honest - this fellow was a contender up to that point and he finished the stages with grace taking the misses and continued with a great attitude , we all felt bad for him - but he stood up and carried on with all the behind the scenes duties ,