Posse Size

[Scrub Oak Willie 53737]

At a monthly shoot 20 shooters show up. Would you rather have two 10 person posses or one 20 person posse with two 10 person posses A&B  , A shoots and B times , spots , sets targets pickup brass etc. Then A takes over timing ,spotting etc. or just one 20 person posse?

 

Willie

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

10 ain't enough when you think about needed posse chores. 

[Texas Maverick]

Our club doesn't create 2 posse's unless we can put 12 to a posse. So for us this would be one large posse. 

 

TM

Edited August 18 by Texas Maverick

[Leroy Luck]

In my experience you have 2 options:

 

1) One big posse of 20 shooters switching out chores as needed, with more than enough people for help

 

2) 2 smaller posses where EVERYONE has to work and trade out.

 

I prefer to have enough people to trade off the work and enough people to always have shooters ready. 
 

Last week we had 2 posses of 11 shooters and our posse was great where everyone worked and it just flowed well. 

 

I have experienced slightly bigger posses where half the people won’t work and it takes longer. You have to determine who shows up and how to split it. I will say it’s not fair to the people that actually do chores to have them do chores the entire match. 
 

Your results may vary. 

[Scrub Oak Willie 53737]

Had 9 on each posse yesterday , spotting , setting targets , picking brass. NOT FUN 

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

We would go with 1 posse.. even with 22 showing up..

We have too many older shooters ( I’m included in that) that can’t handle 

all the work chores..

[Show Me]

I would prefer two posses. 

Too hot,, too long for 20..

It's only a monthly match. 

It's supposed to be fun. 

[Black Hills Barb]

When it's this hot and humid we would go with 10 on each but ask that only 2, maybe 3, are loading at a time.  Also, after shooting we do hope that folks can return to a task, too.  We do slow the pace a bit as well.  We have often left this up to a vote.  Most seem to prefer 2 small posses.

[Three Foot Johnson]

Twenty is too many, while 10/10 is on the verge of not enough, but I'd still opt for two groups of ten.

With Montana's low population density, the waning interest in CAS, and attrition taking its toll among us older folk, ten or less for a monthly is the norm here, and even just seven or eight is common. The nearest club to me is over an hour each way, and the next two are two hours each way.

[Jackalope]

In theory, two groups of ten can finish in half the time of a single group of twenty.  In reality, two groups of ten will take slightly longer than half the time.  

 

Another thing to consider is that not all groups of ten are equal.  Can the group of twenty be split in such a way that there will be more than one capable timer operator on each group?  How about the folks who struggle to reset knockdown targets and pick up brass due to physical limits?

 

All things considered, I would much rather split in two groups just to get out of the East Tennessee heat and humidity earlier.

[Dream Chaser, SASS #79316]

One big posse.  Two often is split one small posse has workers and the other posse of ten has two non-workers which leaves the work for eight.  If stages are a bit quirky one needs time to think about them.  If one needs to go to the restroom or has a gun issue then on a small posse it puts all work on the others.  On a big posse one can think about the stages, take a little time to brush out the shotgun, drink water/energy drinks, etc.  I shoot where the heat index might be over a hundred and it can be very humid but I will be in better physical shape even if a larger posse takes longer.   That being said I would rather be on a posse of nine who all work then a posse of twelve where three do not work.

[KingSnake]

Under 22 shooters - one posse

22 and above shooters - two posses 

[Flying W Ramrod]

We had 2 posses, yesterday, of 15.

Still had those who didn't want to work.

At one point, had 7 on the loading table. Why? They were admonished and dropped to 6, like that helps.

You've got 4 on the line, if one spotter is brass picking, another scoring, one shooting, and one on the ULT.

One back at the cart putting away stuff, one coming back from getting rid of that second cup of coffee.

Shouldn't be more than 3 on the LT, and one getting ready to head there.

It's all in the shooters who show up.

I prefer smaller posse's when it's too dang hot.

 

[Ninety Caliber Al, 50218]

Split needs to be at 24 in my opinion

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

20, we would run 1 posse. If 10 and 10 and take out the people that can't help you overwork the shooters who can....not fun.

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

Locally 22 seems to be the magic number that leads to two posses. It works. With four Burts on one 11 person posse we inevitably have to spot for each other though.

[Hoss]

Posse splitting is the hardest chore at a monthly. trying to equalize posses with 2 TOs and other workers can be tough. my notice is some folks just aren’t going to work. If on big posse it’s easier for them to “hide”. One guy I know will be by his cart moving bullets from one box to the other just to look “busy”. Small posse its more noticeable. And I can count & keep score or shag brass. Even reset shotgun targets. No reason you have to have dedicated persons doing only one chore! 
 

 

We generally split at 20. Some would split at 18, but I think that’s too few. In the Texas summer heat, I’d rather shoot 2 posses if 10 and be done around noon than 1 of 20 and be closer to 1300 or even later. 
 

As a PM I’ll tell shooters as we start that if you aren’t doing a chore for at  least 5 shooters, someone else is having to do double duty. 

Edited August 17 by Hoss

[Slow Poke]

I prefer a bigger posse or else you get 4 or 5 people doing double or triple duties, trying to get everything to run smooth. That's not fun. 

[Snake-eye, SASS#45097]

We faced that issue at our monthly match this weekend. It was a hot and humid day. 20 people showed up so we split into 2  10 person posses. Everybody worked. 3 spotters, we checked each other’s guns at the unloading table. Worked  well and we finished early. Great weekend match.

[Sarge]

Depends on how many workers you have in that 20.  If they are all workers, sure you could get away with 10 in a posse, but if all 20 aren't workers, you are better off with one big posse.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

IMHO you need at least 12 in a posse to cover all the jobs, and that's if everyone chips in and helps. Most times that's not the case. I was MD once and was operating the timer on a small posse. I was timing, picking up brass, and resetting targets while people were sitting at their carts. I stopped the match, told the posse that I was timing only and until the brass was picked up and targets reset we'll just stand there and wait. It worked except for one or two guys.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Last match I was at there exactly 20, we did one posse. 10 is barely enough to cover the shooter, TO, 3 spotters. score keeper and unloading table. Plus with 20 you can actually take a break and relax for a stage or two.

[Cypress Sun]

For a posse to run well, you need 12 to 15 people per posse IMO. Truth is that on a posse of any size, there will be at least a 30% slacker rate and the same core group of people continuously do all of the work. 

 

A 10 person posse just makes it so that the people that do all work never get a break. Makes a short day long. No thanks.

[SouthwestShooter]

With under 13.  -14 not very  much fun to shoot .  Been there done that.

 

[Null N. Void]

One has to look at how many workers one has.   10 is fine if everyone works.   That is what I prefer.   If you have too many that don't want to participate in posse chores, one bigger posse is what to go with.   

[Texas Jack Black]

5 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Last match I was at there exactly 20, we did one posse. 10 is barely enough to cover the shooter, TO, 3 spotters. score keeper and unloading table. Plus with 20 you can actually take a break and relax for a stage or two.

 Well said  pay dues ,pay to shoot, work all day at a match and we are all getting older . Sad but this is death by 1000 cuts for our game.

[Hud McCoy]

50 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 Well said  pay dues ,pay to shoot, work all day at a match and we are all getting older . Sad but this is death by 1000 cuts for our game.

Some shooters have been on break forever.

 

[Buckeye Pete, SASS # 29941]

This past Saturday we had 17 shooters at the Los Vaqueros monthly match.  Everyone worked and we had a great time.  Finished in 3 1/2 hours and by then it was getting a bit warm, but still not too bad for an August match in Tombstone Az.  As Southwest Shooter wrote, I don't think it would be much fun with less than 15 or so.

 

Buckeye Pete

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Now Wild Bunch is another animal.  At a recent annual we had a 4 stage WB side match.  Some people didn't show up so we had to collapse to one posse of 18.  It took longer than a 6 stage cowboy match and it was extremely hot/humid as well.  So that wasn't an ideal situation.  

 

For any match, it's rare that you get exactly the right number of shooters for perfect sized posses, so you adapt as best as possible.

[SouthwestShooter]

3 hours ago, Buckeye Pete, SASS # 29941 said:

This past Saturday we had 17 shooters at the Los Vaqueros monthly match.  Everyone worked and we had a great time.  Finished in 3 1/2 hours and by then it was getting a bit warm, but still not too bad for an August match in Tombstone Az.  As Southwest Shooter wrote, I don't think it would be much fun with less than 15 or so.

 

Buckeye Pete

You're a God

[John Kloehr]

On 8/17/2025 at 4:09 PM, Jackalope said:

... How about the folks who struggle to reset knockdown targets and pick up brass due to physical limits?

 

All things considered, I would much rather split in two groups just to get out of the East Tennessee heat and humidity earlier.

Me too, I do not deal well with the heat. As to helping... About all I can do is help with tear down at the end. I do hope to finally "get" the rules enough to serve as a spotter. I can count misses fine, still struggling with Ps which affects the miss count. I just accept however I am scored by those who do get it.

 

The main path for beginners contributing on each stage is picking brass... I just can not see it in the gravel. Really, I can't. It does not register in my eyes even though I pass DMV eye tests just fine. Maybe after I get the second cataract fixed and get a new prescription for the right distance, I might be able (and happy) to do this.

 

I think I could be an unload table officer with just a little more prep (mainly don't know enough about cap and ball guns, may have other gaps). My point being there will be some who want to shoot but can't do every or in some cases any posse job. Not lazy, not shirking, just can't for legitimate reasons.

 

That said, the absolute minimum posse size looks to me like nine plus a shooter if everyone has a job they can do when anyone is shooting and the posse is fully staffed.

 

So 20 show up, let's assume 5 of them a family of new shooters who are curious about the sport. The other 15 can do any job at any time. It is going to be one big posse as there really is no good way to split into two. Can introduce them to the idea of helping with brass picking. Bring water to drink. Bring a bit extra to share.

 

I'll also suggest from observing that 10 gets tight as a minimum. With everyone having a job and one shooter, who is at the loading table getting ready? Need about 3 lined up to shoot, plus a couple more counting rounds and otherwise prepping or peeing. I am no expert, but think 15 is a good smaller posse size, not the bare minimum of 10.

 

So don't split 20. But can easily split 30 after verifying enough skills in two groups to keep each posse moving.

 

Looking back to the OP and change it to make the question easy:

 

"At a monthly shoot 30 shooters show up. Would you rather have two 15 person posses or one 30 person posse with two 15 person posses?"

 

FWIW from a long-term occasional participant who does not deal well at all with heat,  still does not get all the scoring rules, and can't see brass in the gravel. 20 is too small to split. 30 can be split. Depending on what folks can do to help, somewhere in between might be right.

 

Temperature should finally drop a bit here in the next week, seeing the occasional Katydid coming out of the trees.

[Whitey James]

I too am a terrible brass spotter. I think it's a combination of my colorblindness and dirty brass. When it's nice and shiny it's not so bad. I prefer spotting and usually will spot until there are only 3 or so of us left then shoot. That way I get to watch and learn.

[SouthwestShooter]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

Me too, I do not deal well with the heat. As to helping... About all I can do is help with tear down at the end. I do hope to finally "get" the rules enough to serve as a spotter. I can count misses fine, still struggling with Ps which affects the miss count. I just accept however I am scored by those who do get it.

 

The main path for beginners contributing on each stage is picking brass... I just can not see it in the gravel. Really, I can't. It does not register in my eyes even though I pass DMV eye tests just fine. Maybe after I get the second cataract fixed and get a new prescription for the right distance, I might be able (and happy) to do this.

 

I think I could be an unload table officer with just a little more prep (mainly don't know enough about cap and ball guns, may have other gaps). My point being there will be some who want to shoot but can't do every or in some cases any posse job. Not lazy, not shirking, just can't for legitimate reasons.

 

That said, the absolute minimum posse size looks to me like nine plus a shooter if everyone has a job they can do when anyone is shooting and the posse is fully staffed.

 

So 20 show up, let's assume 5 of them a family of new shooters who are curious about the sport. The other 15 can do any job at any time. It is going to be one big posse as there really is no good way to split into two. Can introduce them to the idea of helping with brass picking. Bring water to drink. Bring a bit extra to share.

 

I'll also suggest from observing that 10 gets tight as a minimum. With everyone having a job and one shooter, who is at the loading table getting ready? Need about 3 lined up to shoot, plus a couple more counting rounds and otherwise prepping or peeing. I am no expert, but think 15 is a good smaller posse size, not the bare minimum of 10.

 

So don't split 20. But can easily split 30 after verifying enough skills in two groups to keep each posse moving.

 

Looking back to the OP and change it to make the question easy:

 

"At a monthly shoot 30 shooters show up. Would you rather have two 15 person posses or one 30 person posse with two 15 person posses?"

 

FWIW from a long-term occasional participant who does not deal well at all with heat,  still does not get all the scoring rules, and can't see brass in the gravel. 20 is too small to split. 30 can be split. Depending on what folks can do to help, somewhere in between might be right.

 

Temperature should finally drop a bit here in the next week, seeing the occasional Katydid coming out of the trees.

You'll catch on.

[John Kloehr]

10 minutes ago, SouthwestShooter said:

You'll catch on.

I'm sure I will in time. October is likely my next opportunity to show up. After the second eye heals but may not have final glasses yet. I will continue to ask questions.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Our cowboy match on Sunday had 18 shooters. Two posses of nine means everyone would be working more or less full time. We went with one big posse. It took four and a half hours because we had two “old school” stages that took 20 minutes plus to explain. (Start match at 9:20 end 1:50) So posse size is certainly a factor but so is stage design. At two hours ten minutes for the first four stages and two hours twenty for the last two I don’t think the posse size had as much impact as the design of the last two stages. BTW we have a lot of great workers and we solved our “too many” at the loading table by making them pretty much only comfortable for four shooters at a time. 
YMMV
Regards

    
Gateway Kid