New to SASS need some reloading help

[Dragon1976]

I'm new to SASS and will be reloading ammo.  What I would like help with is a common powder to be used with light loads for .38 special 125gr TCFN for both pistol and rifle and 20ga 5/8oz (Rem STS or gunclub hulls) for shotgun.  Looking online for reloading data, it looks like HS-6 is a contender for powder, anybody have a better idea?  

 

Thank you for your time and help.

Cory

 

[Bison Bud]

These days one pretty much has to be flexible and use what is available at the time of purchase.  I'm not real familar with HS-6, but have had good results from Titegroup, HP-38/Win-231, Clays, Bullseye, Unique, Red Dot, American Select, and even worked up some good loads with Clay Dot (which you probably won't find published load data for in anything but shotgun.)   Anyway, there are many good pistol powders out there to choose from and availability has been improving as of late.  Good luck and good shooting to all.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

TiteGroup will work for all that.  A faster burn rate than HS-6 and thus will be cleaner and more consistent in light loads.   Commonly available right now, too.  good luck, GJ

[Too Tall Bob]

8 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

TiteGroup will work for all that.  A faster burn rate than HS-6 and thus will be cleaner and more consistent in light loads.   Commonly available right now, too.  good luck, GJ

This - TiteGroup is a great powder. 

[Eyesa Horg]

Shooters World "CleanShot". Don't know in 20ga, but works well in 12ga.

Titegroup/ High Gun (same powder) will do them all. Also Perfect Pattern.

[Rye Miles #13621]

TiteGroup, HP38 or Clays works well in .38’s. I use TiteGroup right now and I’ve got a good amount. I also have some HP38. 

[Scarlett]

Welcome to the MOST FUN EVER!! 
 

Midway had a lot of suitable powders for sale last week. Tite Group (High Gun) are identical powders with separate labels for pistol and shotgun and Vita Vouri etc. fair price… but not a deal so to speak. Clean Shot is out of stock til another container arrives from Czech Republic. 2.9-3.2 gr of Tite Group is a good starting point with a 125gr bullet. Test in rifle and pistol before you load up too many! 😉 IYKYK, right? 🤣🤦🏼‍♀️

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

[Brazos Bottom Bill Miller]

I use titegroup for my .38's and sg. Works well.

[Knucklehead, SASS #52427]

titegroup works well for all.  i found a loading for 12 gauge reading hodgdon's reloading website. 

tried it and it worked well in my 12 gauge with #7 shot. I loaded 1 ounce of #7 shot with titegroup powder(about 16 grains, i used the proper powder bushing for the mec press) WAA12SL wad, WIN 209 primer on my 600 mec jr.

 

personally I prefer Goex 2F  for my pistol, rifle, shotgun loads. in 357 and 45 colt calibers.

 

[Griff]

While reloading for rifle and pistol is a fairly simple matter of mating bullet weight with a powder charge that can provide sufficient power to knock down the occasional knockdown target, yet provide comfortable recoil, the shotgun is not quite as straight forward.  Shotgun shells depend on a "stack" of powder, wad & shot to gain a certain height to produce a satisfactory crimp. (using plastic hulls of course), much easier to adjust if one uses brass hulls.  Most loading manuals will list such combinations to yield such a "stack", but... at higher velocities than one needs for cowboy action.  I loaded 20 gauge for my wife, before I learned that most 20 gauge shotguns are based on a smaller, lighter frame than 16 or 12 gauge shotguns.  Thus any load from a 20 gauge gun will have more felt recoil than an equivalent load from a 12 or 16 ga.  The amount of compression imparted to the wad at loading will also affect the result.  Unless one of your fellow shooters has a proven 20 gauge load for a 3/4 or 7/8 load that yields slightly less than 1,000 fps you will not find something thus in either printed or online reloading guides.  I found thru some experimentation that I could reduce powder charges and lighten the amount of compression of the wad and significantly reduce felt recoil in her 20 gauge loads and still maintain enough mass and velocity to take down shotgun reactive targets.  I happened to use IMR's PB powder at the time, since discontinued, so my exact load would be of no use.  I did find in my Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Handbook (2nd Ed.), an HS-6 load from which such experimentation would be feasible.  However, it requires such a substantial reduction in powder that I'm hesitant to suggest it.  There are loads using 473 & Unique which might prove more versatile. 

 

Winchester still makes AA "Low Noise/Low Recoil" shotshells in 20 gauge which produces 980 fps with 7/8 ozs of shot.  This will still produce more felt recoil than the same product in 12 gauge, but far less than any other field or target load on the market.  

[Stump Water]

Red Dot or American Select (same powder for all intents and purposes) is what I use for everything CAS.

 

I have some HS-6 that I use for 44 mag & 9mm non-CAS loads, but only because I've had it for 30 years and I'm just using it up.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

HS-6 is unsuitable for your 38 Special loads.  Your loads would be too high velocity for SASS.  Tightgroup and HP-38/W231 will both work and are available.  I am currently shooting 38 Specials loaded with W231.   However, HS-6 is suitable for 20-gauge shotgun shells.  Hodgdon lists loads using Remington hulls and (inexpensive) Cheddite 209 primers.  Midsouth currently stocks 8-lb jugs of both HS-6 and HP-38.  You could order both powders on one order (and thus only pay one HAZMAT fee).  Don't be hesitant to buy 8-lb jugs.  Powder gets used up pretty quickly.  Buying primers in lots of 5,000 or 10,000 is wise too.  There is large scale military conflict in the world consuming ammunition components.  Shortages of components for reloading hobbyists are common.  We are the lowest priority customers.  Those of us with reloading component stashes keep shooting.  Those without beg or leave the shooting sports.

 

Unique would work for both your loading requirements.  Don't shop for any as Alliant is not shipping any currently.

[Dapper Dave]

I am, as always, the odd man out - I use Ramshot ZIP for my 38 Special ammo, same load rifle and pistol. Sometimes, you use what's on the shelf...when I run out of ZIP, if I can't find anymore, I have enough Accurate Arms #2 to last for about 10,000 rounds! Usually use that in 9mm.

I JUST started loading shotgun and the only thing I could find was WST, which has been a good "training" powder for now. Still working out the kinks of figuring out how shotgun reloading works, not exactly the same as metallic cartridge loading!

As mentioned, the full length brass shells are easy to load, (not as easy as my Mec600Jr, but not hard at all),  I actually started loading 12 ga doing the MagTech brass shells. Those are really black powder only, even if I do have a couple of Red Dot loads in the manual I got from Midway. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

WW231/HP38(same powder) would work well. Start in the middle of the load range a use a firm roll-crimp. 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

8 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

I am, as always, the odd man out - I use Ramshot ZIP for my 38 Special ammo, same load rifle and pistol. Sometimes, you use what's on the shelf...when I run out of ZIP, if I can't find anymore, I have enough Accurate Arms #2 to last for about 10,000 rounds! Usually use that in 9mm.

I JUST started loading shotgun and the only thing I could find was WST, which has been a good "training" powder for now. Still working out the kinks of figuring out how shotgun reloading works, not exactly the same as metallic cartridge loading!

As mentioned, the full length brass shells are easy to load, (not as easy as my Mec600Jr, but not hard at all),  I actually started loading 12 ga doing the MagTech brass shells. Those are really black powder only, even if I do have a couple of Red Dot loads in the manual I got from Midway. 

Save the WST for pistol loads. It’s great in 45 ACP. 
 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I've loaded a ton of 12 gauge shotshells with WST.  It was originally designed as a shotgun powder, replacing Win 452AA powder about 1985 or so.   So, it will make great light 12 gauge loads if that is what you were able to find on the shelf.    Although it is just about perfect as well in .45 auto loads.  good luck, GJ

 

 

10 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Still working out the kinks of figuring out how shotgun reloading works, not exactly the same as metallic cartridge loading!

Yes, loading shotshells is a WHOLE lot different than loading cartridges.  Especially when you start using plastic hulls with a folded crimp.  Which most folks eventually go to due to faster reloading on a shotshell press and much cheaper cost for the hulls (almost free if you hunt down hulls at a shotgun range).  GJ

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

On 7/15/2025 at 6:49 AM, Dragon1976 said:

I'm new to SASS and will be reloading ammo.  What I would like help with is a common powder to be used with light loads for .38 special 125gr TCFN for both pistol and rifle and 20ga 5/8oz (Rem STS or gunclub hulls) for shotgun.  Looking online for reloading data, it looks like HS-6 is a contender for powder, anybody have a better idea?  

 

Thank you for your time and help.

Cory

 

 

For those recommending powder for shotguns, remember the OP is requesting load data for 20-gauge.  Shotgun powders used for 12-gauge may lack load data for 20-gauge.

[Sedalia Dave]

Some other powder options from Claybuster Wads

 

https://claybusterwads.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/CB1075-20-Load-Data.pdf

 

Note that some of the powders listed have been discontinued.

[SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER]

I switched everything to titegroup, cartridges and shotshell. It seems to be the most consistently available (and cheaper) powder online and in shops. 3 grains in .38 and 13 grains with 1 oz. And grey wads in 12 gauge.

[Dapper Dave]

...and I don't own a 45ACP...I know, unAmerican commie pinko junkie...but I might get one. 

Back to the OPs questions - I have never loaded 20 ga, but I know my Lyman's has a BUNCH of load data. I do find it interesting that load data for shotguns is very rigid, "you MUST use this wad, this powder in this exact amount, with this primer, in this hull, without exceptions!", whereas loading, say, 38 Special is, "do you have primed brass that says 38 Special? Ok, use a bullet kinda close to this one with this powder, but you can start here and go alla way up to here, and seat it somewhere around this COAL, you pick..."

[John Kloehr]

7 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

...and I don't own a 45ACP...I know, unAmerican commie pinko junkie...but I might get one. 

Back to the OPs questions - I have never loaded 20 ga, but I know my Lyman's has a BUNCH of load data. I do find it interesting that load data for shotguns is very rigid, "you MUST use this wad, this powder in this exact amount, with this primer, in this hull, without exceptions!", whereas loading, say, 38 Special is, "do you have primed brass that says 38 Special? Ok, use a bullet kinda close to this one with this powder, but you can start here and go alla way up to here, and seat it somewhere around this COAL, you pick..."

LOL I could have so much fun with this post. I do carry a 9mm 1911 at this point because it just works for me.

 

As to shot shell reloading, one will still need to load a few and test for pattern. For all the rigidity in the formulas (I do see it), if the gun shoots a donut, work from there.

 

I am close to trying brass 12 GA hulls with APP. I have everything to do so, except time. I bless starting as close to a specific recipe as possible, then work from there. Maybe what is missing from shotgun loads is guidance for how to tweak. More or less shot, or powder, or how to adjust the wad if changing one or another. I suspect (without sufficient experience to be sure) that the final stack has to come out to the right height for a proper crimp. With something like a .38 spl, a little air space is not a problem as long as the primer sparks reach the main charge.

 

Normally would not even post in a thread like this (not truly qualified). Consider this contributing questions, not guidance.

[Whitey James]

22 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

...and I don't own a 45ACP.

There is an urban legend that if you stare into the bathroom mirror and say "45ACP sucks" three times, John Moses Browning will appear and scold you for not shooting God's caliber.

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Dapper Dave said:

...and I don't own a 45ACP...I know, unAmerican commie pinko junkie...but I might get one. 

Back to the OPs questions - I have never loaded 20 ga, but I know my Lyman's has a BUNCH of load data. I do find it interesting that load data for shotguns is very rigid, "you MUST use this wad, this powder in this exact amount, with this primer, in this hull, without exceptions!", whereas loading, say, 38 Special is, "do you have primed brass that says 38 Special? Ok, use a bullet kinda close to this one with this powder, but you can start here and go alla way up to here, and seat it somewhere around this COAL, you pick..."

 

The rigidity of Shot Shell reloading comes primarily from 2 needs.

 

One is the crimp. To get good performance you need a good crimp.

The second and arguably most important item is that that the pressure margin for shotguns is significantly less than other firearms. In Cartridge guns you get visual warning of overpressure loads.  In shotguns the first sign of a load that is too hot is usually catastrophic mechanical failure. 

[Dapper Dave]

That would suck, to put it mildly. 

 

Brass shotshells are actually what I started with, because they can be loaded without a press. 

 

 

 

With those loads, I guess due to the inherent strength of the brass hull, AND the fact that there is no crimp, but a glued in over shot card, it was a LOT more like regular metallic cartridge loading, albeit with black powder, not smokeless, (even though there are a few documented safe loads with Red Dot), and I have had a lot of fun playing around with them.

 

 

@John Kloehr, nothing wrong with a 9mm, I carry one daily. Nothing wrong with a 9mm 1911, but if Col Cooper catches you with one he'll laugh. 
I had a Springfield 1911A1 decades ago, but it wasn't a very reliable pistol. Things have come a long ways since then, and I can afford basic gunsmithing if need be. 

And please feel free to have fun with the post - I think 90% of what I do here is comic relief.  

[Ol Salty Sailor]

I've been reloading everything with titegroup because I have always been able to find it.

.38 spec 125gr RNFP  3.8gr TG

.45 Colt  200gr RNFP 4.8 gr TG

12 ga STS, 1 oz 71/2 birdshot MEC #18 powder bushing drops 15.6gr TG

 

the lighter your hammer springs the more important quality primers are Federal Gold Match seem to always work!