IAC 93/97 cycling issue

[Trenchgun831]

Hello, I’m having issues with my IAC 93/97. The action binds up and doesn’t open with the hammer down, it cycles when the hammer is cocked but is gritty. It also has trouble ejecting shells. It is an 06 Model. 
 

do you guys have any helpful answers to my issue? Or also know of a person I could ask about this? I’m also wondering where I can get parts for this shotgun. 

[Hooligan Howes]

With the hammer down push forward on the pump. 

[Cemetery]

Gritty?

 

Take the buttstock off, and spray the guts out with non chlorinated break cleaner, then relube. 

 

This made a world of difference with my IAC 97

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

I was told when I got into this game that a '97 is just 100 Parts waiting to break!     It's why I have always shot a double, well except for that period of insanity where I tried a 1887 Lever Shotgun.   ( I will probably dust that off and try again someday, but I am currently happy with my double.  It still hates me, but I have made peace with it... )

 

As Cemetery said, flush it out, then relube.  It never hurts to do a complete tear-down and clean (looking for burrs on the metal work, pieces of grit, etc.) but start with the flush and relube.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

12 hours ago, Trenchgun831 said:

Hello, I’m having issues with my IAC 93/97. The action binds up and doesn’t open with the hammer down, it cycles when the hammer is cocked but is gritty. It also has trouble ejecting shells. It is an 06 Model. 
 

do you guys have any helpful answers to my issue? Or also know of a person I could ask about this? I’m also wondering where I can get parts for this shotgun. 

This is why the Remington 870 became so popular. 

[Outlaw Gambler]

If you are in need of Norinco/IAC parts, contact me.

Outlaw Gambler

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

The 93/97 is really just a 97 made to look like a 93 by giving it the larger ejection port of the earlier model.   So, their 97 parts should fit.   I remember having a conversation with Coyote Cap a long time ago about barrel threads, and he said that some of them were metric and some were normal, which could lead to headaches on a barrel swap, but everything else is the same.  (This is to the best of my recollection.)

Good luck.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Ejection failures - things to check

Open action briskly  ("run it like you stole it")

Check ejector (a small 90 degree angle spring on left side of action ) that it is intact and not bent badly

Check for both extractors are free to work (not gummed up) and that the tail is not broken off the left side extractor.

 

As for the "action doesn't like to open unless you have fired a shell"  - that is what Browning designed the gun to do.  The action slide lock was designed to keep a dud shell in the chamber for a second or so instead of the shell deciding to fire as shooter ejected the dud.   Back when primers did not fire off every single shell instantly (before 1920), this was seen as necessary.  Now, not so much.   As you put some wear into the gun by using it, you will find the slide lock opens much more easily.  But, if it is getting in your way, a good 97 smith can polish it up and reshape the lock actuator hook to work smoother.

 

good luck, GJ

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

OP, you run'n factory ammo or reloads?  

[Trenchgun831]

The action is locked up unless the hammer is pulled back, I don’t know what part would be binding up. Do any of y’all? 
also it grabs the shell out of the chamber but does not throw it out. I’m cycling the action with the hammer cocked, could that be why it’s not throwing out the shell? 

[Outlaw Gambler]

Remove the carrier from the receiver. Reinstall the mag tube with the action slide. place a spent hull into the chamber. Pull the action slide into the receiver. Place the end of the action slide into the action hook. Kinda slam the action forward to lock onto the spent hull in the chamber.  Now you will need to lightly move the action slide forward until the spent hull is fully into the chamber and the action hook is engaged with the slide and with the hull. With a moderate amount of force bring the action back to eject the spent hull. Things to look for

1. how far out does the hull fly out of the receiver

2. Did the hull shoot straight out or did it spin

3. If it spins does it go clockwise or counter clockwise

Repeat this about 6 times and see if it is consistent or not.

Possible problems

1. bad left extractor

2. bad left and right extractor

3. timing is not correct

4. ejector spring 

Coyote Cap and I used to have a competition with the 97's we were working on. Placed a hat on the floor about 8-10 foot away and started ejecting spent hulls as described above. Best of ten won. When the gun is set up correctly it should have no problem throwing them out instead of dribbling out.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

8 hours ago, Trenchgun831 said:

The action is locked up unless the hammer is pulled back, I don’t know what part would be binding up. Do any of y’all? 

Already answered that, it's the action slide lock.  Which is forced to open with either

1 - recoil of a fired round

2- shooter pushing forward on the slide (forearm)

3 - pressing the action lock release button

 

Read answers, get answers.

 

good luck, GJ

[Trenchgun831]

I’m hoping I can order a new action slide lock, since mine seems to be faulty. Thank you for your help. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

A 97 is not a black gun where you can just toss in new parts and they work (due to tight tolerances now), instead of how guns were designed 125 years ago (requiring a lot of hand fitting).  Throwing new parts in it can often be more work than fixing what is wrong.   First, diagnose.  Second, find a way to fix the problem with some smithing. New parts for a Chinese made 97 or 93/97 can be real hard to get, and can often need the same fitting that you would do if you just tuned your existing part(s).   Be glad you have Outlaw Gambler to refer a parts order to.

 

I've gotten several 97s to open better, and tuning the slide lock itself was rarely what it took.  More likely, it's how the diamond shaped tab at the rear end of the action slide engages the action lock.    Does the action lock button on the right side of the action operate the action lock to release it and open the action when you have "hammer-down, action-closed" condition?  This will tell you more about what "hidden part" in your gun is not working well.

 

Here's a manual with a good diagram of a 97.....

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Manuals-Forms/PDFs/1897Shotgun.pdf

 

Do your testing actually firing rounds.  Diagnosing this with dummy rounds is hard for a beginner smith.

 

Kinda sounds like a good smith would be the "part" you need to find, IME.  If you have some time to wait, Squibber does a lot of 97 work - he's in Casa Grande AZ.    https://www.dustybunch.com/   Outlaw Gambler is great, too.   But, a little farther from you.

 

good luck, GJ

[Trenchgun831]

22 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

More likely, it's how the diamond shaped tab at the rear end of the action slide engages the action lock.    Does the action lock button on the right side of the action operate the action lock to release it and open the action when you have "hammer-down, action-closed" condition?  This will tell you more about what "hidden part" in your gun is not working well.

No it does not, the action lock button only is able to be pressed when the hammer is cocked. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Well, pull the thread on why that does not work, and you will probably find the root cause.  The action (un)lock button should be "depress-able" with the hammer down on a closed action.  That is how you unload a loaded 97 - you press the unlock button and pull the slide open.   GJ

[Trenchgun831]

I’m new to this website, do you know how to find that thread? I cannot seem to 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

"Pull the thread" meaning you should dig deeper into the problem that even the lock release button does not release the action lock.    Not "look for some other wire post that covered this problem."    Although a search of the SASS wire forum might a way to learn more about possible causes of the problem.  Be aware that the search engine that the forum software provides (at the top of the forum page) is not a very easy way to find old posts.   Here's a more powerful way to search - use Google.   In the address bar of your web page, type something like this for an "address"

 

"sassnet: 97 action slide locked"

 

You will get a whole bunch of results that apply to some of the problems with the action slide lock not unlocking at the right time.    It could be really useful to you to scan through some of these posts from about 2012 to the present.

 

You have a condition where neither of the normal ways of getting the action lock to unlock and let the action cycle are working - the forward push on the forearm, and the push on the release button.   

 

Here's some pictures of what should be happening.  This shows one Chinese 97 that works well.   You will have to look carefully with good light to see how your gun compares. 

 

First, when the action is open, you should see on the left side of the carrier three (of the six) parts that make up the lock system: the slide lock bar, the leaf spring that causes the bar to normally be tipped out away from the carrier surface, and the screw which holds the spring in place.  Push gently on the left end of the lock bar and you should see it move into flush with the side of the carrier block.

 

The action slide bar works like this..... When the action needs to be locked, the action slide lock (bar) pivots out into a slot inside the left side of the receiver.   In an emergency unintended lockup, it SHOULD be possible to slip a small flat-bladed screw driver in this slot, catch the edge of the locking bar and pivot the bar to the unlocked position (bar pulled into the carrier.)  Be very careful not to cause a round to fire if you do this!

 

 

When the action should unlock and let you run the action normally (such as after firing), the bar is forced into a position flush with the left side of the carrier.  There is a small slot milled in the left side of the carrier which lets you see the position of the bar.   This unlocks the action so that the slide can be pumped open.

 

 

 

 

When should action lock be locked - with action closed and hammer cocked or hammer in the half-cock notch.  This means the gun will not "blow open" when the round fires.  This locking on the half-cock hammer position is a problem unwary shooters have when they lower the hammer during loading, but fail to lower it fully to rest on the firing pin.  This locks the gun when shooter first attempts to cycle the action to fire the 97 on the line.

 

When should action be unlocked - after firing a round (due to recoil), after pushing forward on the forearm of a closed action with hammer down, or while pushing the slide lock release button with the action closed and hammer down.   Also, whenever the gun action is open (the auto-pivoting of the lock bar away from the carrier surface when the carrier is exposed below the frame takes care of this).

 

Maybe you need to tell us the context of how this problem started to occur.  Is this a new gun to you, and has it shown this problem from the beginning?   Is this a problem that has occurred recently, after working well for a while?   Did this problem begin AFTER you did a major disassembly and reassembly of the gun?   It's pretty easy to assemble the gun so it mostly works but the slide lock does not. 

 

good luck, GJ

[Trenchgun831]

I have just recently acquired this shotgun, the issue has been present since it came out of the box. It appears to have practically never been fired due to how tight the bolt rides against the top of the hammer. I guess it still needs broken in. One thing I have noticed is that when you load a once fired shell into the chamber to eject it, it grabs the shell out of the chamber but doesn’t kick it out of the action unless you grab the bolt itself and pull it the last 1/4 inch back. (This movement of the action is only possible with the hammer cocked and the pressing of the release button) I have no clue as to why that would be. 
when the hammer is uncocked, the carrier begins to move slightly down, (visible from the side of the receiver), but stops after the first 1/2-1” of movement of the slide handle backwards. 
im wondering if I should just try to disassemble the gun to see if someone assembled it incorrectly. I just wish I had a manual. I’ll have to find a video on the assembly of a Winchester 1897, which I would assume would be 95% the same. 
 

also I very much so appreciate your effort in trying to help me with this issue, I’d be lost without your help sir. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

31 minutes ago, Trenchgun831 said:

I have just recently acquired this shotgun, the issue has been present since it came out of the box. It appears to have practically never been fired due to how tight the bolt rides against the top of the hammer. I guess it still needs broken in. One thing I have noticed is that when you load a once fired shell into the chamber to eject it, it grabs the shell out of the chamber but doesn’t kick it out of the action unless you grab the bolt itself and pull it the last 1/4 inch back. (This movement of the action is only possible with the hammer cocked and the pressing of the release button) I have no clue as to why that would be. 
when the hammer is uncocked, the carrier begins to move slightly down, (visible from the side of the receiver), but stops after the first 1/2-1” of movement of the slide handle backwards. 
im wondering if I should just try to disassemble the gun to see if someone assembled it incorrectly. I just wish I had a manual. I’ll have to find a video on the assembly of a Winchester 1897, which I would assume would be 95% the same. 
 

also I very much so appreciate your effort in trying to help me with this issue, I’d be lost without your help sir. 

Can you post a video of this? 

That's so we all see the same thing......

[Trenchgun831]

I will try to post a video this evening when I get home from work. 👍🏼

[Sedalia Dave]

When I get home I'll past a good video I found of the complete disassembly and reassembly of a 97. I used it to reassemble 3 that I bought that were nothing but  box of parts.

[Trenchgun831]

 

 

 

Here are a few videos of the issue

[Trenchgun831]

[Trenchgun831]

 

 

[Trenchgun831]

 

If I hold the pump handle, there is a part inside the action rattling. I don’t know if this is normal? 

[Sedalia Dave]

This is a Solid frame but 99% is applicable to the takedown models. There are plenty of videos out there that show how to remove and reinstall the barrel/magtube assembly of the takedown version. The internals of the receiver are the same.

 

https://youtu.be/MlpoJ6uvoAo?si=Fv2pkQJXNVBwoJkG

 

[Sedalia Dave]

How a 97 works.

 

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Excellent videos! 

Hey, Outlaw Gambler......

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Does it hang up with an empty chamber?  

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

Is the IAC 93/97 now legal for CAS?  It was not several years ago.  I have SHBs going back several years and they don’t contain specific language about the 93/97.

[Sedalia Dave]

3 minutes ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

Is the IAC 93/97 now legal for CAS?  It was not several years ago.  I have SHBs going back several years and they don’t contain specific language about the 93/97.

Not legal for SASS but it is legal for Wild Bunch. 

[Trenchgun831]

1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Does it hang up with an empty chamber?  

No it doesn’t, it’s definitely harder to open when trying to eject a shell though. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Trenchgun831 said:

No it doesn’t, it’s definitely harder to open when trying to eject a shell though. 

Looks like you may have a headspace issue.

Does it hangup ejecting an unfired factory round?

The fired case you used in the video, was it fired in that shotgun? 

[Trenchgun831]

4 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Looks like you may have a headspace issue.

Does it hangup ejecting an unfired factory round?

The fired case you used in the video, was it fired in that shotgun? 

No it wasn’t, it was fired in another gun. The shell slides into the chamber easily. I’ll have to try it with an unfired shell, I was just afraid to do that.