Support, don't judge.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

Nice article from The Shooting Wire.

 

Time to Welcome Newcomers to Shooting Sports and Competitions | Shooting Wire

[Texas Maverick]

Very interesting article.

 

TM

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 minutes ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

Nice article from The Shooting Wire.

 

Time to Welcome Newcomers to Shooting Sports and Competitions | Shooting Wire

 

 

Good little article.  It did leave out one demographic in which interest in shooting sports is growing - Homosexuals.  Believe it or not, most, at least around here, are not parading in the streets in BDSM gear, or dressed in "nunface," or waving pride flags.  They're as sick of the fringe 0.1% of the alphabet community as the rest of us, and are sick of a certain political party telling them that they have to think and believe in certain things, and support certain things, or they "aren't gay enough."  They're more afraid of "coming out" as gun owners than letting people at the LGS or the range know that they're gay.

As for "don't judge," don't judge by what they wear, how many facial piercings they have, how many tattoos they have.  Judge by how they act.

 

 

[Alpo]

3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Believe it or not, most, at least around here, are not parading in the streets in BDSM gear, or dressed in "nunface," or waving pride flags.  They're as sick of the fringe 0.1% of the alphabet community as the rest of us, and are sick of a certain political party telling them that they have to think and believe in certain things, and support certain things, or they "aren't gay enough."

Few years ago I read an article about "why Hollywood won't use Raven Symone anymore".

 

If the name does not sound familiar, when Rudy got too old to be cute on The Cosby show Denise married a divorce father with custody, so they had this other little cute 5-year-old girl. And she grew up and went to work for the Disney channel. I think she was on The View for a little while.

 

And then she just kind of - disappeared.

 

She said there were three reasons why she had trouble finding work. She refused to say she was African-American. "I've never been to Africa. I'm American. So what if my skin is a little darker than yours. So what if my facial features are different than yours. So what if my hair texture is different than yours. I'm American. Not African."

 

That's a big plus.

 

Then she said that she refused to say that Cosby tried to molest her when she was on the show. She said he didn't. But because Cosby was "an evil sexual predator", the powers that be in the entertainment industry wanted her to jump in and say that he tried to do something to little five year old Raven. She said it never happened, and she wouldn't say it did.

 

So that's two big pluses.

 

And the third reason was she refused to get out and join with the gay pride and the lgbq whatever. Apparently the lady is a lesbian. But she said that who she dates, who she lives with, who she's married to - ain't nobody's business but hers. And she refused to join in to the "we're here, we're queer, get over it!" group.

 

I thought all three of those reasons were excellent ways to think. And if it made it difficult for her to find a job, and she still has those ideas and reactions - more power to her.

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 hours ago, Alpo said:

Few years ago I read an article about "why Hollywood won't use Raven Symone anymore".

 

If the name does not sound familiar, when Rudy got too old to be cute on The Cosby show Denise married a divorce father with custody, so they had this other little cute 5-year-old girl. And she grew up and went to work for the Disney channel. I think she was on The View for a little while.

 

And then she just kind of - disappeared.

 

She said there were three reasons why she had trouble finding work. She refused to say she was African-American. "I've never been to Africa. I'm American. So what if my skin is a little darker than yours. So what if my facial features are different than yours. So what if my hair texture is different than yours. I'm American. Not African."

 

That's a big plus.

 

Then she said that she refused to say that Cosby tried to molest her when she was on the show. She said he didn't. But because Cosby was "an evil sexual predator", the powers that be in the entertainment industry wanted her to jump in and say that he tried to do something to little five year old Raven. She said it never happened, and she wouldn't say it did.

 

So that's two big pluses.

 

And the third reason was she refused to get out and join with the gay pride and the lgbq whatever. Apparently the lady is a lesbian. But she said that who she dates, who she lives with, who she's married to - ain't nobody's business but hers. And she refused to join in to the "we're here, we're queer, get over it!" group.

 

I thought all three of those reasons were excellent ways to think. And if it made it difficult for her to find a job, and she still has those ideas and reactions - more power to her.

 

Ah! I've seen the clip of her standing up to the goddess of passive/aggressive racism. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

When I worked part time at a local gun shop/range we had a group of gay dudes called, The Pink Pisols! They were a bunch of nice guys, we could kid around with them and they loved it! Good shooters too! They still come in from time to time I was told. 😎

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 6/30/2025 at 1:18 PM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

When I worked part time at a local gun shop/range we had a group of gay dudes called, The Pink Pisols! They were a bunch of nice guys, we could kid around with them and they loved it! Good shooters too! They still come in from time to time I was told. 😎

Had some customers when I was working gun shops who professed their choices proudly but for the most part they made Rush Limbaugh sound a bit left of center.  They didn't flaunt anything or make an issue of anything, but if you asked they would speak up.

 

I liked most of them better than some of the freaks that came in, including a few local LEOs who weren't in life with my beliefs.

[Pat Riot]

Lots of “new” shooters after Covid. I have met and talked with quite a few and helped them with advice and sometimes I would loan them something they might need at the range, like a tool or oil or CLP. I have helped a few figure out ammo issues and I have given lots of reloading advice. &nbsp
I pretty much do what people did for me 40+ years ago. 
 

Speaking of “new shooters” has anyone found a cure for the Knowitalls at SASS matches that critiques new shooters guns and essentially nearly scares people off telling them the nearly $4000 they spent to get to shoot isn’t enough and now they need to send everything off to be slicked up? 
You know, those guys that can’t wait to make themselves feel good about all the money they spent so now they browbeat newcomers into following their lead…

I will never forget my first SASS match. As soon as I finished my first stage I got pulled in 3 directions by the RO, the unloading officer and some other fella with bad breath, all telling me everything wring with the guns I brought. I damn near quit that day. Luckily I talked with some other folks that convinced me that everything was fine and that those guys were just exuberant in helping others. 
Does this still happen?

[Alpo]

I remember being at a monthly match up in Georgia one time, when after I finish shooting my first stage this guy comes up to me and tells me that if I learned to reload I can make the ammunition a whole lot lower powered so I could shoot faster and maybe have better times.

 

This is just a guess based on how young he looked, but I've been reloading longer than he had been alive.

 

I always followed Venturino's comment: the timer operator says STAND BY, and then the timer BEEP!, and just then a war party of screaming Comanches comes galloping over the berm. Would you be happy with the ammunition you have in your guns?

 

I would be. I am aware that this is a game of speed, and the wimpier you load your ammo the faster you can get back on target so the quicker you can finish. And I don't care. I don't load wimpy ammo. All my ammunition is full power. 158 grain 38s at 900, 210 grain 44 Russians at 800, 210 grain 44 Winchesters at 1100, 255 grain 45 Colts at 900.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

27 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

Lots of “new” shooters after Covid. I have met and talked with quite a few and helped them with advice and sometimes I would loan them something they might need at the range, like a tool or oil or CLP. I have helped a few figure out ammo issues and I have given lots of reloading advice. &nbsp
I pretty much do what people did for me 40+ years ago. 
 

Speaking of “new shooters” has anyone found a cure for the Knowitalls at SASS matches that critiques new shooters guns and essentially nearly scares people off telling them the nearly $4000 they spent to get to shoot isn’t enough and now they need to send everything off to be slicked up? 
You know, those guys that can’t wait to make themselves feel good about all the money they spent so now they browbeat newcomers into following their lead…

I will never forget my first SASS match. As soon as I finished my first stage I got pulled in 3 directions by the RO, the unloading officer and some other fella with bad breath, all telling me everything wring with the guns I brought. I damn near quit that day. Luckily I talked with some other folks that convinced me that everything was fine and that those guys were just exuberant in helping others. 
Does this still happen?

I don't think it happens constantly, but rather here and there, now and then.

I watched a new shooter at the loading table using their fingers to work through the sweep and where the pistols would split, etc. Right before they were called to the line, a very fast shooter told them to shoot it a different way. So the shooter followed the advice. And blew their clean match.

I don't think the fast shooter did it to be a jerk, I think he was genuinely trying to help.

Location, location, location.

And I think the loading table was a poor choice of a location to do coaching in this instance (aside from a safety issue).

But let the new guy shoot it how he figured it.

After the match you can suggest some fine tuning.

[Dapper Dave]

I have to say in the few matches I've shot, not one cowboy came over to tell me what I have is junk, even had a very long time shooter say that I did a good job slicking up my Stoeger Coach Gun. I haven't seen anyone give anyone grief about what they use, even though we have some shooters with NICE gear, and I mean nice, they don't look down on my Uberti Ranch Hands, or my polymer stocked Stoeger. They're just happy more people are getting into the game!

[watab kid]

not only a great article but what should inspire to do in the interest of growing the sports that are needing new shooters 

[Sedalia Dave]

On 7/1/2025 at 10:39 PM, Pat Riot said:

Lots of “new” shooters after Covid. I have met and talked with quite a few and helped them with advice and sometimes I would loan them something they might need at the range, like a tool or oil or CLP. I have helped a few figure out ammo issues and I have given lots of reloading advice. &nbsp
I pretty much do what people did for me 40+ years ago. 
 

Speaking of “new shooters” has anyone found a cure for the Knowitalls at SASS matches that critiques new shooters guns and essentially nearly scares people off telling them the nearly $4000 they spent to get to shoot isn’t enough and now they need to send everything off to be slicked up? 
You know, those guys that can’t wait to make themselves feel good about all the money they spent so now they browbeat newcomers into following their lead…

I will never forget my first SASS match. As soon as I finished my first stage I got pulled in 3 directions by the RO, the unloading officer and some other fella with bad breath, all telling me everything wring with the guns I brought. I damn near quit that day. Luckily I talked with some other folks that convinced me that everything was fine and that those guys were just exuberant in helping others. 
Does this still happen?

 

Unfortunately yes. I first experienced it when my late wife and I went to a new club. Wife was shooting a stainless Rossi 92. She loved the stainless look and all she cared about was shooting a clean match. One "well meaning" lady wouldn't shut up about my wife needing a Marlin because the 92 was slowing her down. At that time, a Marlin was double what I paid for the 92. A gun that my wife picked out because she liked the looks and we could afford it. The rifle had a full action job and ran flawlessly.

After we were in the truck headed home my late wife commented about how annoying it was to have someone continually tell her what was wrong with the firearms SHE picked out. 

 

I have experienced it a lot. I shoot a 92. It is not the limiting factor for stage times. Yet I am always asked why I don't buy a 73.

 

My biggest pet peeve is the peanut gallery. They stand in the back and poke fun at the equipment choices and slow speed of others thinking no one else hears them. 

I quit shooting at one club because I knew that one day I would call them out and create a confrontation. Was easier to vote with my feet than to get into it with the "in" crowd.

[Eyesa Horg]

On 7/1/2025 at 11:39 PM, Pat Riot said:

Lots of “new” shooters after Covid. I have met and talked with quite a few and helped them with advice and sometimes I would loan them something they might need at the range, like a tool or oil or CLP. I have helped a few figure out ammo issues and I have given lots of reloading advice. &nbsp
I pretty much do what people did for me 40+ years ago. 
 

Speaking of “new shooters” has anyone found a cure for the Knowitalls at SASS matches that critiques new shooters guns and essentially nearly scares people off telling them the nearly $4000 they spent to get to shoot isn’t enough and now they need to send everything off to be slicked up? 
You know, those guys that can’t wait to make themselves feel good about all the money they spent so now they browbeat newcomers into following their lead…

I will never forget my first SASS match. As soon as I finished my first stage I got pulled in 3 directions by the RO, the unloading officer and some other fella with bad breath, all telling me everything wring with the guns I brought. I damn near quit that day. Luckily I talked with some other folks that convinced me that everything was fine and that those guys were just exuberant in helping others. 
Does this still happen?

Thankfully my first matches were nothing but encouragement. Even with with a few misses and rattling knees, I was told I had a good run with smiles. By the third or so, folks started giving me advice. Some worked for, some didn't. Gotta say for my experience over the years around New England, folks seem to be supportive rather than condescending. 🤠

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

I actually got hit before my first match.  I had a mixed asst of guns, one OMV, a super blackhawk, a Win 94 and an old double barrel 12ga.  I had a holster set that was a single drop holster and a cross draw holster.  I was in a gunshop owned by a well known shooter and was talking to him trying to learn what I could.  He started berating my choice of guns, two mixed handguns in different calibers was just stupid.  A win 94 is the poorest choice i could make and being a trapper I would always need to load on the clock, I needed to buy a 73.  The old double barrel wasn't good enough either, I really needed a tuned 97 and had to spend all my time practicing with it to speed up my loading or I would never win.  My leather was useless and was likely to be laughed at, I needed to order a belt/holster set made by one of the top makers specifically for competition.  Basically I was told how useless it would be for me to go to a shoot because there was no way I could ever win and I would just slow down the entire process because I obviously wasn't serious enough about it to spend the kind of money that was required.  I was a kid paying my own way thru college at the time....

 

After all that, I literally put everything away and it was at least a year before i even contemplated getting to a shoot.  I never did go back to that gun shop, nor did I ever (and in all these years still have not) gone to the particular club he was known to frequent.  one of these days maybe...  Luckily there are many clubs in the area so that was not my only choice.

[Eyesa Horg]

Some need to understand that we're not all there to win. A lot of us just want to have fun. I've won category on rare occasion, but will never ever win a match. I'm quite fine with that!

I started with 2 mismatched Blackhawks and did, the following year, upgrade to New Vaqueros.

[Alpo]

36 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Some need to understand that we're not all there to win. A lot of us just want to have fun

I haven't shot in several years, but back when I did I would tell people that I was not there to compete. I was there to participate.

 

I have bad knees and a fair size table muscle. Between the two of them, I do not run. Frequently there would be a stage where you were supposed to shoot here and then run over to there. Since I do not run, I knew there was no way that I was going to win, so I didn't try.

 

I was at a big match - Mule Camp, I believe - and this big name shooter - I'm pretty sure it was Lassiter but that's been probably 20 years so I could be wrong - watched me shoot a stage and then told me that if I did this and that and the other thing my times would improve.

 

And I thanked him, because I knew he was trying to be helpful. But I didn't do any of the things he suggested because I wasn't there to win. I was just there to play.

[Alpo]

41 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I've won category on rare occasion

I've never won, but I came in second one time.

 

Of course, there were only two of us shooting classic cowboy in that match.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I’ll never be Top Shooter overall but I do strive to win my category and come in the Top Ten and clean the shoot. Ahh yes, the TRIFECTA,🤠

[Shawnee Hills]

On 7/1/2025 at 10:39 PM, Pat Riot said:

Speaking of “new shooters” has anyone found a cure for the Knowitalls at SASS matches that critiques new shooters guns and essentially nearly scares people off telling them the nearly $4000 they spent to get to shoot isn’t enough and now they need to send everything off to be slicked up? 
You know, those guys that can’t wait to make themselves feel good about all the money they spent so now they browbeat newcomers into following their lead…

The same can be said about the ones that are shooting factory-stock gear making unwanted remarks about those that have put some time and money into theirs.  Everyone knows that stock or slicked up guns are allowed and welcomed to the game but, yes, there are those that just can't help but make disparaging comments about either.  Darned if I know the cure but "I'm happy with what I have" usually works.  "mind your own damned business" would feel better but that's not very nice.  😄

 

I've run into a few folks as you describe at matches but, thankfully, they have been few.  Honestly, I see more condescending comments on this very board.  Several fellow shooters have shared that they want no part of the Wire for this very reason.  There are a few posters that need to trade their high horses in for a little humility so perhaps the mods should consider if those folks are scaring off new shooters.

 

[Alpo]

37 minutes ago, Shawnee Hills said:

mind your own damned business" would feel better but that's not very nice.  😄

Several years ago I discovered this really neat two-word phrase.

 

When you say something about your pistol, and someone says, "that's a revolver". Or you say something about a silencer and they say, "that's a suppressor". Or my absolute favorite - when you say something about a clip and this guy pops up out of nowhere to tell you, "that's a magazine".

 

There's this nice little two-word phrase. Short words. The first one starts with an F and the second one starts with a Y.

 

I bet it would work real good when somebody started telling me that my guns were garbage because they hadn't been worked on, or if they started telling me that the only reason I was doing good was because I had spent all that money to have my guns worked on.

 

Just a simple two words.

[Captain Bill Burt]

3 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Some need to understand that we're not all there to win. A lot of us just want to have fun. I've won category on rare occasion, but will never ever win a match. I'm quite fine with that!

I started with 2 mismatched Blackhawks and did, the following year, upgrade to New Vaqueros.

Everyone is there to have fun, but some folks definition of fun includes shooting well and hopefully winning.

[Eyesa Horg]

50 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Everyone is there to have fun, but some folks definition of fun includes shooting well and hopefully winning.

Just saying those folks shouldn't talk down to the rest that don't win. A situation mentioned above that I haven't really experienced in this neck of the woods .  

[Bingo Montana]

Good article. Thanks for passing it along. 

[Calico Jack]

Is it against the rules somewhere to call people out?

 

 

[Dapper Dave]

Two little words, start with "F" and "Y"...

 

"Fun, ya'll!"

[Alpo]

Yeah, that's them.

[Alpo]

10 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

Two little words, start with "F" and "Y"...

 

"Fun, ya'll!"

Don't take this the wrong way.

 

Y'all is Y apostrophe A, not YA apostrophe.

 

Lots of people get that wrong. You're not the only one.

[Cypress Sun]

I want everyone that comes out to the target range or to a match to have the most enjoyment they can and gain the most knowledge that they can about firearms and shooting sports. 

 

That said...

 

- They need to have at the very least, basic firearm safety knowledge. If they don't, they need to take a firearm safety course BEFORE coming to the range.

- They need to have rudimentary knowledge of how their firearm works. Take a shooting lesson if needed to become familiar with their gun(s).

- If it is a shooting sport, they need to have read the rule book and have watched videos of the sport being "played". Shooting competitions are NOT the places to learn how to shoot a firearm.

 

Most of the time at the shooting range (target), I cannot safely watch 20 - 30 other shooters and, at the time, provide a mentor to the new shooter. Shooting activities, be it target shooting, sport shooting or disciplined shooting are not like any other sport...serious, if not fatal, injuries can occur if safety protocols are not followed all the time...every time. I refuse to compromise the safety of all other shooters to accommodate one new shooter. 

 

As an RO at the shooting range (target), I try to help out newer shooters as much as possible and offer advice if solicited. When I was shooting CAS and/or operating the timer, I did the same thing.

 

All people that are new to firearms have to learn somewhere. I just don't believe that a range full of people is the place to start.  

 

[Kid Rich]

9 hours ago, Alpo said:

Don't take this the wrong way.

 

Y'all is Y apostrophe A, not YA apostrophe.

 

Lots of people get that wrong. You're not the only one.

Ya wanna bet? Depends on which word ya are using the apostrophe in.

kR

[Alpo]

In a contraction, the purpose of the apostrophe is to take the place of missing letters. When you take two or more words, put them together to make one word, and remove some of the letters, you replace them with the apostrophe.

 

Is not - remove the O, replace it with an apostrophe, isn't

 

Do not - remove the second O, replace it with an apostrophe, don't

 

Can not - remove one N and the O, replace them with an apostrophe, can't

 

You all - remove the O and the U, replace them with an apostrophe, y'all

 

That is how it is spelled - y'all. If you say it can be spelled any other way, you are simply incorrect.

 

But I noticed that you don't know how to spell you - you spell it ya, so you might wish to consider going back to second grade and learning how to spell.

[John Kloehr]

16 minutes ago, Alpo said:

In a contraction, the purpose of the apostrophe is to take the place of missing letters. When you take two or more words, put them together to make one word, and remove some of the letters, you replace them with the apostrophe.

Sometimes a word won't quite follow a rule.

[Alpo]

This is true. Sometimes there are words in the English language that do not follow the rules.

 

To make a word possessive, you put an apostrophe and then add an S.

 

Tom - Tom's

Bill - Bill's

Sally - Sally's

 

But then we have some that you don't add an apostrophe

 

It - its

Our - ours

 

And some where the word changes

 

He - his

She - hers

 

There are words that do not follow the rules.

 

But y'all is not one of them.

[DeaconKC]

Since this has become a rules' question, where's Palewolf?

[Stump Water]

On 7/1/2025 at 11:39 PM, Pat Riot said:

Speaking of “new shooters” has anyone found a cure for the Knowitalls at SASS matches that critiques new shooters guns and essentially nearly scares people off telling them the nearly $4000 they spent to get to shoot isn’t enough and now they need to send everything off to be slicked up? 
You know, those guys that can’t wait to make themselves feel good about all the money they spent so now they browbeat newcomers into following their lead…

I will never forget my first SASS match. As soon as I finished my first stage I got pulled in 3 directions by the RO, the unloading officer and some other fella with bad breath, all telling me everything wring with the guns I brought. I damn near quit that day. Luckily I talked with some other folks that convinced me that everything was fine and that those guys were just exuberant in helping others. 
Does this still happen?

 

Never seen it.   

 

Sure, some are, as you say, exuberant, with their suggestions, but I've never seen anything I would remotely call "browbeating" or arrogant or condescending.