Just Rifles

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Not too long ago, I started this thread...
 

To be honest, I over thought it, made it far too complicated, and tried to bring up too many ideas as once.  That was my mistake.  I also had far too many typos and spelling errors in my initial post.   

I don't want to rehash what I was trying to say, and not doing a very good job of, in that thread, so let me start from scratch, and see if I can make any more sense.

We all know that Josey Wales is an unofficial pistol only version of our game.  Someday I hope to try it.

With all of that as background, what about an all rifle event?   There are a couple of ways it could be designed.  

Rifle stays the same.
Pistols become either a second rifle, or perhaps a .22 rifle.   Could be shot at the pistol targets or repeat the rifle string as safety and match director decides.
Shotgun stays the same or perhaps becomes a "long range" rifle (94, 86, etc) with alternate targets at the back of the shooting bay. 

I guess "shotgun" would always have to be last.

And that's it.   Trying to keep it simple.   Last time I over complicated my thoughts, and looking back over the original thread, it doesn't make much sense to ME, so I can imagine that it musta been off putting to others.   I think this is simpler and easier to contemplate.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

All rifle, brass pickers will hate you. 

[Texas Maverick]

12 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

All rifle, brass pickers will hate you. 

Guess it would be like EOT. Lost brass match. Then someone can pick it up afterwards and charge you the return of your own brass.

 

TM

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Any club that has a Cody-Dixon category or whatever they might call it, should be a good fit, not quite perfect, for this.  They already have the further targets for the "rifle caliber" rifles, usually 5 to 7 rounds.  And then instead of shooting the regular pistol targets, you shoot the regular rifle targets with your pistol caliber rifle.  The "not quite perfect" would be that, as you mentioned, shotgun would always have to be last so that changes the scenario from the others.  You could call it the Rifleman category.   Carrying 3 long guns to the loading table, to the stage, to the unloading table, to the cart, over and over might get old.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 minutes ago, Texas Maverick said:

Guess it would be like EOT. Lost brass match. Then someone can pick it up afterwards and charge you the return of your own brass.

 

TM

With today's reloading component prices.  You won't get many shooters  if it's a 'lost brass' stage. 

I thought EOT stopped being a LB match 

[Texas Maverick]

1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

With today's reloading component prices.  You won't get many shooters  if it's a 'lost brass' stage. 

I thought EOT stopped being a LB match 

Nope, they had a scout troop pick up the brass after the days shooting and then the kids cleaned the brass and setup a table at the entry gate trying to sell the brass back to the shooters when they came in. My brass was new and I did not like not getting back my brass after each stage. I did not know they were doing this until during the match. Another reason I won't be going back to their match in the future. Just one of many reasons. But that is for another day. I haven't seen many of my issues discussed from the survey in their emails back to us. So I will be saving thousands by not going back to their match. 

 

TM

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I don't think it'd have to be a lost brass match.  Just based on what I see at matches, I think all the brass could picked up in a reasonable amount of time.   And, unless everyone's doing it, which won't happen, it won't add that much total time to a posse's run.  (I think.)

 

 

[Choctaw Jack]

Several of our area annual and regional matches use local youth organizations as brass pickers, and the shooter's donations fund the groups activities.

I have always appreciated,  and donated to, their efforts.

But at a major match where there are hundreds of shooters in multiple posses, the time between shooters, waiting for the brass pickers to clear the stage, can really add to the length of a shooting day.

I, personally, have always took this into consideration when loading for this type of match and try to avoid using new brass,knowing that I probably won't get my brass back.

I usually buy brass from the kids to help with their fund raiser , and I can always use a little extra brass.

Choctaw

[Texas Maverick]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I don't think it'd have to be a lost brass match.  Just based on what I see at matches, I think all the brass could picked up in a reasonable amount of time.   And, unless everyone's doing it, which won't happen, it won't add that much total time to a posse's run.  (I think.)

 

 

Agree, when I went to EOT in NM they had the kids picking up the brass after each shooter and just asked us to tip the kids at the end of the day. So there is no reason they can't do this at current EOT matches. Land Run lets us pick up brass just like any other match. So there isn't any reason EOT is gonna give me to make me change my mind about the brass being picked up and returned to the shooter after they shoot. You will also find most shooters using new brass for this supposedly world class match so that is a lot of money lost per shooter as well.

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

3 minutes ago, Choctaw Jack said:

Several of our area annual and regional matches use local youth organizations as brass pickers, and the shooter's donations fund the groups activities.

I have always appreciated,  and donated to, their efforts.

But at a major match where there are hundreds of shooters in multiple posses, the time between shooters, waiting for the brass pickers to clear the stage, can really add to the length of a shooting day.

I, personally, have always took this into consideration when loading for this type of match and try to avoid using new brass,knowing that I probably won't get my brass back.

I usually buy brass from the kids to help with their fund raiser , and I can always use a little extra brass.

Choctaw

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. We shoot 3 waves of 4 stages each day and when EOT was in NM we got our brass back so it is doable. 

 

TM

[Choctaw Jack]

TM,

I have shot EOT in both locations ( I'm  a NM resident) and comparing the two brass  recovery procedures in a match of that size, I still prefer the lost brass match.

At one EOT in Phoenix, there was over 800 shooters. That's  a lot of time waiting on brass pickers.

But , as you said, agree to disagree. 

Choctaw

[Wild Eagle]

I shoot at two different clubs that offer what they call Indian Fighter.  Shoot a rifle caliber rifle at the Cody Dixon targets, a pistol caliber rifle at the sharpshooter targets (you could use the regular rifle targets if you wanted to) and then use the shotgun just like the normal cowboy shooters are.  Works pretty well.  You're only talking about 6 pieces of rifle caliber rifle brass more than everyone else is shooting, so the brass thing is not really an issue.  Maybe if you had 300 shooters all shooting that you could slow things down, but even at a recent match that only allowed sharpshooter, Cody Dixon, Indian Fighter, and BAM/Doughboy it wasn't an issue with about 15 on the posse.  You save time at the unloading table too.  If you already have the targets out there I don't see any reason not to have the class.  At least at a monthly match.  

 

Hauling 3 long guns to the firing line is pretty much a no for me, but I'm seeing 3 or 4 people shooting it at a monthly sometimes.  The way I shoot my pistols I should probably think twice about it again too.

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

4 hours ago, Texas Maverick said:

Agree, when I went to EOT in NM they had the kids picking up the brass after each shooter and just asked us to tip the kids at the end of the day. So there is no reason they can't do this at current EOT matches. Land Run lets us pick up brass just like any other match. So there isn't any reason EOT is gonna give me to make me change my mind about the brass being picked up and returned to the shooter after they shoot. You will also find most shooters using new brass for this supposedly world class match so that is a lot of money lost per shooter as well.

 

TM

 

4 hours ago, Texas Maverick said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. We shoot 3 waves of 4 stages each day and when EOT was in NM we got our brass back so it is doable. 

 

TM

 

4 hours ago, Choctaw Jack said:

TM,

I have shot EOT in both locations ( I'm  a NM resident) and comparing the two brass  recovery procedures in a match of that size, I still prefer the lost brass match.

At one EOT in Phoenix, there was over 800 shooters. That's  a lot of time waiting on brass pickers.

But , as you said, agree to disagree. 

Choctaw

The main difference between EOT in NM and EOT in AZ and Winter Range before that is the time of year they are/were shot. In NM it was summer and kids were out of school so they could pick brass during the match. In AZ school is in session so they had the brass pickers come after the matches are over for the day to pick brass. Then they package  it and sell it to make money for the scout group doing it.

 

Landrun manages to let shooters pick brass. I don’t care for lost brass matches as I shoot 38-40 as a Classic Cowboy. Have shot FCD at lost brass matches so I can shoot .38 in my rifle but stick with 38-40 in my revolvers.

Edited Monday at 11:29 PM by Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Y'know, it doesn't have to be at EoT or some other big match.

If a club can offer Josey Wales at a local monthly, then this rifle thing could be as well.

Or if it's at something like EoT, it would probably be a 1 stage side match.

As far as getting the 3 rifles to the line goes, the only "example" I can offer is how some local clubs here in New England occasionally do what they call an "Iron Man" Match.   2 rifles, 4 pistols and a LOT of shotgun targets on each stage.   Usually a 3 stage match, with just as much shooting as a normal 6 stage one.

Anyway, one or two others on the posse always help with carrying the guns.

Edited Monday at 11:57 PM by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[Vail Vigilante]

I say give it a go! See what the people think once they have actually run it.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Getting 25 person posses thru 4 stages n the allotted time would be rather problematic if we waited to police brass for every shooter. If posse on the 17  to 20 person range may not have folks available. I really don't mind giving the boy scouts a few bucks

[Rip Snorter]

Long ago in IPSC, at least the club I was in, we color coded our brass with paint markers.  When the match was over everyone collected brass and it was dumped on a tarp.  Those who cared to picked out their brass.  Leftovers were saved by caliber, and when there was a coffee can full, offered as a prize at a match.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Okay so 2 rifles and shotgun. Shoot rifle targets twice so you don’t have to shoot rifle at the pistol targets which may be too close. 
THE RIFLEMAN CATEGORY! I like it! 

[Mister Badly]

Me too

[Griff]

K.I.S.S.  With my 1860 & C45S carrier using 160 grain bullets it holds 19 in the mag..  With 2 less transitions, (no pistols), loading one over the top, I've often thought I'd attempt it at a monthly.  No need to juggle 3 long guns.  Just shoot the rifle sequence twice.

[Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826]

I don’t like for brass pickers to Easter Egg hunt for every last piece of brass. Grab the quick to get and go. 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I shoot 44's .

I'm not going to any lost brass match. 

Don't care what the reasons are .

Just Sayin 

Rooster