Erasmus Posted June 7 Posted June 7 (edited) 4 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Something about the SDS that info came from is not right. I looked, and every website had the same SDS. I pulled the SDS and patent info for American Pioneer Powder a few years ago and APP was using Ascorbic Acid in it's formula. I was quoting from the SDS from Shooter's World for APP: https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/MSDS-Download.pdf It's from 2016 (as per the pdf, but 2022 as per the link), there may be a newer one? Maybe they have a different formula from 'actual' APP (it does list the trade name as American Pioneer Powder)? Maybe they don't (or didn't need to at the time) list 'inactive ingredients'? Edited June 7 by Erasmus Quote
Bingo Montana Posted June 7 Posted June 7 (edited) I have had very good success with APP and have used it exclusively since 2022 as a BP substitute for pistol/rifle and shotgun loads. The qualities I like are easy cleanup, VERY good smoke, can used coated (Hi-TeK) bullets, and consistent results on the range. While I shoot 38's I have also used it for 45 CS/LC. I purchase both APP 3F and Hi-Tek bullets from @Scarlett Bullets by Scarlet. I buy APP in bulk from @Scarlett to save a few bucks. If you were close I would give you a pound to try out. A lot of good load info posted here, PM if you want to chat about loading, cleaning, and purchasing. Good luck Pard! Edited June 7 by Bingo Montana 1 1 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted June 7 Posted June 7 7 hours ago, Erasmus said: I was quoting from the SDS from Shooter's World for APP: https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/MSDS-Download.pdf It's from 2016 (as per the pdf, but 2022 as per the link), there may be a newer one? Maybe they have a different formula from 'actual' APP (it does list the trade name as American Pioneer Powder)? Maybe they don't (or didn't need to at the time) list 'inactive ingredients'? I think it’s an attempt to keep the actual recipe a secret. Ascorbic acid aka vitamin C isn’t considered a hazardous chemical in most circles. Lots of companies are purposely vague when listing the actual ingredients of their products. 11 hours ago, Scarlett said: YES! APP uses a LOT of ascorbic acid (vitamin C 🤦🏼♀️🤣) in its formula. btw, missing you in Tennessee this weekend! Hugs! Scarlett Wish I could be there. I’ll definitely be there next year. 1 Quote
Texas Maverick Posted June 8 Posted June 8 (edited) On 6/6/2025 at 6:31 PM, Sedalia Dave said: The difference depends on if we are talking Grains by Volume or Grains by weight. MEC # 26 bushing is 2 cc of volume. 2 cc of 3F APP weighs 23.5 grains 2 cc equals approximately 30 BP Grains by Volume. I got my APP weight by weighing what was dumped into the shell using the #26 bushing on my scale set to weigh grain. I weighed 5 different shells and the average was right at 30 grns. TM Edited June 8 by Texas Maverick 1 Quote
Dapper Dave Posted June 9 Author Posted June 9 Thank you all for the great info. I missed getting a pound to try out due to the mass confusion at the end of the match, but I will do that very soon. I have no idea bout MEC charge bars/bushings or how they work, but that is also on the list of things I am going to learn real soon! 1 Quote
Leroy Luck Posted June 9 Posted June 9 22 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said: I have no idea bout MEC charge bars/bushings or how they work, but that is also on the list of things I am going to learn real soon! Progressive charge bars and single stage charge bars are different. Single stage is denoted by a “302” and Progressive is denoted by “502”. The other set of numbers underneath the aforementioned number denote the approximate oz of shot that they drop. IE: 100 is 1oz, 118 is 1-1/8oz, 78 is 7/8oz etc etc. You will have to use a Mec powder bushing chart (available in several reloading manuals or online) to figure out which bushing to use for your desired powder charge of whatever powder you desire. I was recently enlightened by another members knowledge of 3D printed powder bushings available from Etsy or wherever else you can find them. A whole set of ~50 bushings is like $100. Each Mec bushing is $4-8 (depending on retailer). The easiest thing is to use an adjustable charge bar, but with the different bushings you could quickly change to a different powder combo without much hassle. Quote
Dapper Dave Posted June 9 Author Posted June 9 Thank you. The bar it came with looks like it might be a steel shot charge bar - will that work for lead shot, and if so, what might I want to look out for to make it work right? There is a selection of bushings that Kid Rich very thoughtfully provided, MUCH appreciated! I watched a few videos on using the MEC 600jr, and once it's properly setup it looks really easy, much faster than my metallic cartridge reloading on my single stage RCBS RS! Of course, I'm not going to be loading 500 hulls in a sitting since the only thing I shoot shotgun for right now is SASS...but bunny busting is always at the back of the mind. Would I need to get another powder bottle to use with black/APP and the original strictly for smokeless? Sorry, I am full of questions, thank you all for all the great help. Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted June 9 Posted June 9 40 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said: Thank you. The bar it came with looks like it might be a steel shot charge bar - will that work for lead shot, and if so, what might I want to look out for to make it work right? There is a selection of bushings that Kid Rich very thoughtfully provided, MUCH appreciated! I watched a few videos on using the MEC 600jr, and once it's properly setup it looks really easy, much faster than my metallic cartridge reloading on my single stage RCBS RS! Of course, I'm not going to be loading 500 hulls in a sitting since the only thing I shoot shotgun for right now is SASS...but bunny busting is always at the back of the mind. Would I need to get another powder bottle to use with black/APP and the original strictly for smokeless? Sorry, I am full of questions, thank you all for all the great help. You can use the same bottles for smokeless or APP. The steel shot charge bar will work with lead shot. You just can't use steel shot with a lead only charge bar. So you know the difference, charge bars suitable for use with Steel shot will have an insert next to the cavity for the lead. See the below pic. Personally for the single stage MECs, I love my adjustable charge bar. It allows me to fine tune the shot charge for the perfect crimp. 3 Quote
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted June 9 Posted June 9 DD, you can use the same powder bottle for black/APP. Just make sure it is entirely empty before switching. Small game hunting requires larger shot than most shoot for CAS, so I advise buying game loads as you need them. They are not very expensive. If you list the MEC bushings you have, we can give you some proven loads using them. It is a pleasure help a new Soot Lord get started. BTW, it is possible to spill shot or powder while loading on a MEC Jr. Maintain focus and don't hurry. The press is simple but not foolproof. 2 1 Quote
Scarlett Posted June 9 Posted June 9 22 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: I love my adjustable charge bar. It allows me to fine tune the shot charge for the perfect crimp. This!! It’s much easier for ME than dealing with bushings. I have one of the steel shot bars - didn’t know why it was red until now! 🥰 Thanks! 8 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said: BTW, it is possible to spill shot or powder while loading on a MEC Jr. THIS IS VERY TRUE! Steal a cookie sheet with a RIM from the kitchen or buy one. Install your MEC JR over it. You WILL drop shot without a shell… IYKYK, right! You will thank me later! 1 2 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted June 9 Posted June 9 (edited) On 6/9/2025 at 8:24 AM, Scarlett said: This!! It’s much easier for ME than dealing with bushings. I have one of the steel shot bars - didn’t know why it was red until now! 🥰 Thanks! All MEC charge bars are red. What denotes a steel shot charge bar is that little off-white insert. I was wrong. New MEC charge bars are red for use with Lead shot and Black for Steel. Some of the Multi-Scale adjustable charge bars also had this insert so they could be used with steel shot. Edited June 10 by Sedalia Dave 1 Quote
Texas Maverick Posted June 9 Posted June 9 4 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said: DD, you can use the same powder bottle for black/APP. Just make sure it is entirely empty before switching. Small game hunting requires larger shot than most shoot for CAS, so I advise buying game loads as you need them. They are not very expensive. If you list the MEC bushings you have, we can give you some proven loads using them. It is a pleasure help a new Soot Lord get started. BTW, it is possible to spill shot or powder while loading on a MEC Jr. Maintain focus and don't hurry. The press is simple but not foolproof. What Canby said as well as a few others. They are interchangeable. Just make sure when you turn the bottles upside down when getting ready to remove them that the red plug is in the bottom of the bottle and also make sure to move the charge bar back and forth a few times to make sure that what was already dropped into the bar is released back into the bottles. TM 3 Quote
Dapper Dave Posted June 10 Author Posted June 10 13 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: All MEC charge bars are red. What denotes a steel shot charge bar is that little off-white insert. Some of the Multi-Scale adjustable charge bars also had this insert so they could be used with steel shot. I was looking at MidwayUSA and they had red lead shot bars and black steel shot bars for sale, that's what I was basing it from, sorry. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1833751329?pid=755467 1 Quote
Sedalia Dave Posted June 10 Posted June 10 14 hours ago, Dapper Dave said: I was looking at MidwayUSA and they had red lead shot bars and black steel shot bars for sale, that's what I was basing it from, sorry. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1833751329?pid=755467 I stand corrected. I have never seen a Black MEC Charge bar. Thanks for the education 1 Quote
Dapper Dave Posted June 11 Author Posted June 11 No worries sir, you guys are far more up to speed on these things than I am, and Midway has marked stuff incorrectly every once in a blue moon. Quote
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