Longer range 30/30

[Nickle]

With 4198 or sr4759.  The closer to black powder velocities the better in my Winchester carbine.  If I load faster the accuracy gets worse the faster I go with cast ideal 311291 . Using wheel weights and lubersizer.with gas checks. 

Only have factory barrel sights.  With sight at highest notch I'm on a 150 yards.

If I had faster velocities it would be easier to hit targets past 150 yards if I didn't have to hold so far above them.   At 250 yards my accuracy was really falling off but part of it I'm thinking are the sights and  the Kentucky windage, holdover. BTW those little bullets sure drift with the wind.

What works for you guys? Do you find type of lube makes much difference with smokeless?  I was using that black Lyman stuff  but used it up and refilled lube sizer with spg.

 

[Pat Riot]

My 94 Winchester carbine was like that. It was accurate with moderate loads but if I speeded things up the accuracy diminished quickly. 
I used to shoot Bear Creek Supply moly coated 180 grain lead RNFP in that gun with 5744 powder. The load wasn’t fast but had a nice whack when fired at steel blocks at 125 yards. I will have to look at my load cards tomorrow and I will post the recipe. 

[Sedalia Dave]

Two possibilities.

 

The bullet alloy is too soft for the velocity.

 

The bullet destabilizes as it transitions from supersonic to subsonic.

[Texas Joker]

Barrel length, rifling twist rate, bullet weight, bullet diameter, hardness and conditions all play into basic accuracy. Then you get into harmonics and other crazy stuff.

 

Your rifle will have a sweet spot where it all comes together the best. Journal each shot and only change 1 thing at a time. Perform multiple shots with each variable. Only way to find the "best" load for the gun.

 

Speed doesn't necessarily change ballistic arc. Just cause the bullets going faster doesn't mean it's taking a different path just travelling that path faster. If your bullet is spinning so fast it throws itself apart and turns into a cloud of lead it'll look like a clean miss.

 

 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

9 hours ago, Nickle said:

With 4198 or sr4759.  The closer to black powder velocities the better in my Winchester carbine.  If I load faster the accuracy gets worse the faster I go with cast ideal 311291 . Using wheel weights and lubersizer.with gas checks. 

Only have factory barrel sights.  With sight at highest notch I'm on a 150 yards.

If I had faster velocities it would be easier to hit targets past 150 yards if I didn't have to hold so far above them.   At 250 yards my accuracy was really falling off but part of it I'm thinking are the sights and  the Kentucky windage, holdover. BTW those little bullets sure drift with the wind.

What works for you guys? Do you find type of lube makes much difference with smokeless?  I was using that black Lyman stuff  but used it up and refilled lube sizer with spg.

 

I can’t help with load data but can suggest you think about a tang peep site for longer range work with a carbine.  I’ve used the Lyman #2, a Marbles sight, and an MVA vernier. The last is probably overkill for a carbine.

 

With a Lyman #2 on my Marlin 94 in 44 mag, I can shoot 5” groups at 200 yards all day long, and it flies a bigger rainbow than your 30-30.

 

[Nickle]

I was watching utube videos last night. Sagebrush longshots have a bunch of video's of shooting 30wcf from 300 to 1000yards. In one video I thought he said he was using 10 grains of unique.
His barrel looks custom and longer than 26"and he is using a quality Montana vintage arms vernier tank sight, He is always shooting when there is no wind.
I'm thinking high velocities and accuracy with cast bullets just don't go together and suspect ones who claim it are just repeating what they have heard.
I would like to get a vernier sight and just see what this gun could do. 

[Nickle]

2 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

I can’t help with load data but can suggest you think about a tang peep site for longer range work with a carbine.  I’ve used the Lyman #2, a Marbles sight, and an MVA vernier. The last is probably overkill for a carbine.

 

With a Lyman #2 on my Marlin 94 in 44 mag, I can shoot 5” groups at 200 yards all day long, and it flies a bigger rainbow than your 30-30.

 

 

Different ones on internet are making the new marble sights sound like China junk. MVA makes a expensive marbles sight. Apparently you can  have different staffs or sight elevators for marbles sights so you can switch them for different ranges. 

The MVA vernier sights I think you can buy the sight and have a couple of different bases for it with a quicker change knob they sell to do this. So I could have a base on my 94 and one on my sharps carbine and just switch the sight back, and forth on both rifles.  With the wind drift of that little 30 cal bullet I'm guessing windage adjustment would be a good thing to have? 

But yes the vernier looks out of place on a carbine but the open barrel sights I think is my biggest accuracy problem at longer range. 

 

Edited May 16 by Nickle

[Pat Riot]

38 minutes ago, Nickle said:

I was watching utube videos last night. Sagebrush longshots have a bunch of video's of shooting 30wcf from 300 to 1000yards. In one video I thought he said he was using 10 grains of unique.
His barrel looks custom and longer than 26"and he is using a quality Montana vintage arms vernier tank sight, He is always shooting when there is no wind.
I'm thinking high velocities and accuracy with cast bullets just don't go together and suspect ones who claim it are just repeating what they have heard.
I would like to get a vernier sight and just see what this gun could do. 

In my moly-coated lead bullet testing my test data is all gone or somewhere I haven’t looked yet. Having moved many times over the years I have lost a lot of information. 
Typically what I do is I un ladder tests on loads and create index cards for the most accurate of all my tests. 
Here are 2 load cards that I tested in my old Winchester 94 30-30 Carbine. I no longer own the gun, but I had a lot of fun with it. 
 

These loads were developed and tested for accuracy in the early 00’s. I did not chronograph them. 

 

 

Gratuitous photo of my old 94. 

Yes, the metal is green. I had it Cerakoted in 2012 after an idiot ex-friend’s “cooler that doesn’t leak” did leak in the back of my Suburban thus causing my 94’s gun case to become saturated. I figure it was like that for 7 days. My gun was covered in rust. I had it Cerakoted. 
 

EDIT: I forgot to add that I tested these loads at 125 yards. After paper testing of ladder loads I tested the “Whack of these loads on several 25# 4”x6”x12” solid steel blocks at 125 yards. The results were impressive in that the sound these bullets made on the steel and the movement of the blocks was quite gratifying. 

Edited May 16 by Pat Riot

[Texas Joker]

Steel wool rust smooth and either oil it or boil it.

 

One is browned one is blued

[Pat Riot]

16 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

Steel wool rust smooth and either oil it or boil it.

 

One is browned one is blued

I was going to do that but wanted to try Cerakote. I liked it and wouldn’t hesitate to do it again. 

[Nickle]

3 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

I was going to do that but wanted to try Cerakote. I liked it and wouldn’t hesitate to do it again. 

What kind of receiver sight was on your carbine?  Does it mount on the bolt?

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Nickle said:

What kind of receiver sight was on your carbine?  Does it mount on the bolt?

No, it mounts in the scope holes on the receiver. The sights on my gun are XS Sights for  Winchester rifles and carbines. I love the front sights by XS. They have a white stripe up the center. They really stand out through the rear peep / ghost ring sight. 
https://xssights.com/products/winchester-ghost-ring-sight-sets-lever-action-.html