Advice on geting this IJ revolver working...

[Bisley Joe]

HOW-DEEEEE!

I got this old Iver Johnson in Colorado back around 2001 or so.

I'd like to get it working and be able to shoot some BP loads. I think its S&W 38 short.

Issues:

 

• When I pull the trigger, it rotates the cylinder and works and drops the hammer, but the trigger stays back.
• Cylinder can be spun until hammer is cocked like a single action or is all way back.
• There is a little bit of play in the top strap release latch. You can see it in the pictures.

 

I would like t5o get it working and do maybe a nice blueing on it, maybe some faux ivory grips.

 

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Bisley Joe

IMG_2589.HEIC IMG_2591.HEIC IMG_2592.HEIC IMG_2593.HEIC IMG_2594.HEIC IMG_2595.HEIC IMG_2596.HEIC IMG_2598.HEIC IMG_2599.HEIC IMG_2604.HEIC IMG_2605.HEIC

Edited May 9 by Bisley Joe

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Are you talking a DIY job, or having a gunsmith repair/restore it?   If DIY, I'll assume you are capable of the needed work.

As is, especially since it's not working, I'd say a full "restoration" is a worthy thought, although, I'd keep the grips. 

Caliber....

There is no such thing as S&W .38 Short   There is .38 S&W and .38 Short Colt, two very similar, but incompatible cartridges.  I'd say with 99-44/100% probability that it is a .38 S&W, but be sure. 

Old top breaks like this are a lot of fun to shoot, and I don't think you can go wrong with it. 

[Dapper Dave]

Looks a lot like my Iver Johnson Second Model in 38 SW. The owls head looking forward and the cylinder notches say black powder only. The cylinder spins - that's normal. Seriously, it is how the guns were made to make them more affordable. As long as they lock up tight during firing, they are OK. Sounds like your trigger return spring is sprung, and I don't know about the top latch, unless the metal itself is work badly, should be easy. However, I am not a gunsmith and I don't play one on TV. I do, however, have a gun just like yours that was rescued and is now fully functional.

 

 

I know a gunsmith who has fixed several guns of this type, including the exact one here...but he's semi retired. However, you are in AZ and he is in Mesa...

Do understand, these are NOT expensive firearms, and the repairs to get one back into firing condition is extremely likely to be more than the gun itself is worth. Having said that, I have discovered a liking for these antique cheap wheelguns; these are what I shot this morning.

 

 

Pro Tip - do NOT dry fire unless you have an expended case in the chamber. Had to get the H&R American fixed for doing that, caused a spring to jump its track.

Edited May 10 by Dapper Dave

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Main reason the top latch is loose is someone shot heavier loads than the latch was made to handle - commonly factory loaded smokeless loads made for later model pocket pistols.  The first and second gen IJs were made for black powder ONLY!   The LONG entry into the cylinder locking slot proves this was a black powder gun.  Repairing the loose latch problem usually well exceeds the value of the gun, especially now that the gun has been out of production for over 100 years and parts have to be made or salvaged off another gun..

 

The usual answer for your problem is to buy another pocket pistol, but this time you know how important it is to check the top latch and trigger function.

 

Unless you are good with shooting and cleaning after black powder loads, you should look for a 3rd generation IJ (which will probably be twice the price of an older IJ).

 

good luck, GJ 

[Waimea]

16 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Looks a lot like my Iver Johnson Second Model in 38 SW. The owls head looking forward and the cylinder notches say black powder only. The cylinder spins - that's normal. Seriously, it is how the guns were made to make them more affordable. As long as they lock up tight during firing, they are OK. Sounds like your trigger return spring is sprung, and I don't know about the top latch, unless the metal itself is work badly, should be easy. However, I am not a gunsmith and I don't play one on TV. I do, however, have a gun just like yours that was rescued and is now fully functional.

 

 

I know a gunsmith who has fixed several guns of this type, including the exact one here...but he's semi retired. However, you are in AZ and he is in Mesa...

Do understand, these are NOT expensive firearms, and the repairs to get one back into firing condition is extremely likely to be more than the gun itself is worth. Having said that, I have discovered a liking for these antique cheap wheelguns; these are what I shot this morning.

 

 

Pro Tip - do NOT dry fire unless you have an expended case in the chamber. Had to get the H&R American fixed for doing that, caused a spring to jump its track.

 

Love the badge.

I have my Grampa's IJ that he carried as a PT Deputy Sheriff probably just about 100 years ago. Wish I had his badge.

[Dapper Dave]

Sorry, it's a cheap replica that was given to me by the gunsmith when I bought the IJ from him. 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I can't count the number of Iver Johnson, FIE, and H&R revolvers I cut up with a torch over the years.  Most of the handles were wrapped in tape.  I never lost any sleep over putting those things out of their misery.  

[Waimea]

10 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Sorry, it's a cheap replica that was given to me by the gunsmith when I bought the IJ from him. 

Looks cool though.

6 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I can't count the number of Iver Johnson, FIE, and H&R revolvers I cut up with a torch over the years.  Most of the handles were wrapped in tape.  I never lost any sleep over putting those things out of their misery.  

Now we know why they call you Evil Bob. 

[Dapper Dave]

Most likely a property room guy. Out here we are required to sell crime guns, not destroy them, but most I've seen haven't been worth the time. 

Fortunately, MY "suicide specials" are fun toys that are not likely to ever be used in anger...if I am THAT desperate, things have REALLY gone off the rails!

[Badlands Bob #61228]

8 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Most likely a property room guy. Out here we are required to sell crime guns, not destroy them, but most I've seen haven't been worth the time. 

Fortunately, MY "suicide specials" are fun toys that are not likely to ever be used in anger...if I am THAT desperate, things have REALLY gone off the rails!

They changed the law in Georgia requiring police departments to auction off guns through FFL's.  Back in the dark ages, we destroyed the junk and auctioned off the good stuff to the public through an FFL along with all the TVs, tool sets and everything else of value we ended up with and couldn't find an owner.  Before the law change, most department destroyed ALL firearms that weren't kept for "department use".  

[Dapper Dave]

I don't doubt it - most seized guns are junk by the time they make it to the small-time hoods, from what I've seen.

[John Kloehr]

Just a derail on the discussion. The images are HEIC format which is from Apple. Nothing wrong with it, unfortunately this forum is not smart enough to turn them into jpg files automatically.

 

So take the pictures with your phone, sync your phone to Photos as (I assume) you normally do. But then when you export the pics from Photos for upload here, choose jpg (jpeg) for the export format rather than "original" (HEIC). Then you can put the pictures right in the thread. One extra click for you, one or more less clicks for each viewer of every photo.

 

Back to the discussion at hand.

Edited Sunday at 10:22 PM by John Kloehr

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

And scaling photos down to about 600x400 pixels instead of the default HUGH size for most phones any more (like 8000x6000 or so) - saves a lot of time opening them.  Easy to do in any picture editor (such as Photos).   GJ

 

 

[John Kloehr]

14 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

And scaling photos down to about 600x400 pixels instead of the default HUGH size for most phones any more (like 8000x6000 or so) - saves a lot of time opening them.  Easy to do in any picture editor (such as Photos).   GJ

 

 

The forum seems to scale jpg files just fine automatically, just need to give the forum jpg (which is identical to jpeg).