frontiersman Frontiersman help - Caps fire but fail to ignite BP

[Choctaw Kid Tulsa]

All,

 

I’ve been shooting Frontiersman for 6+ months and love it. I shot Hell On the Border last week and ran into some problems I could use help in diagnosing. I’m shooting ROA’s with ~20gr of 2F Schuetzen, Slix Nipples, 457 Hornady balls, Remington #10 caps, and load off gun with a Bang and Clang tower.  

 

Over the course of two days I had 4 ignition problems. The caps went off but failed to ignite the powder. After the stage, I recapped the misfired cylinder and the cylinder fired as normal.

 

I think, I may have one or more of the following problems, but any additional insight would be helpful.

1) The caps aren’t being fully seated on the nipple, especially after the first round. I’m using the polish capper but don’t have a “capper stick” to further push the cap down. Maybe after the first stage, the carbon builds up and makes a loose fit? I’ve been using my thumb to make sure the caps are on the nipple (sometimes they do wiggle)…..but maybe I need a stick and to be more aggressive and really wedge those caps on?? Can you overpress a cap onto the nipple?

 

2) Is it possible that I’m compacting the black powder too much in the cylinder? Is that a thing? When I load the balls, I compress the powder as much as possible and bottom out the lever.

 

During my normal monthly matches, I typically see at most one misfire, if that. Having 4 makes me think i must be doing something wrong.

 

I replaced the nipples that came with the guns with Slix 2 months ago. A local pard recommended Treso nipples, but they seem to have gone out of business.

 

Any thoughts to help cure the problem would be greatly appreciated.

 

Choctaw Kid

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Yes.  Use a stick to press caps onto nipples completely.  NEVER use your thumb!  If one goes off it will do very nasty things to your digit.  I use a piece of antler for this.

 

You are not compressing BP too much.

 

Some use a nipple pick after loading to ensure a good avenue for fire to reach powder.

 

Possum

Edited April 30 by Possum Skinner, SASS#60697

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

+1 to Possum Skinner

I ALWAYS use a push stick to fully seat the caps.  I use a piece of deer antler.  If they are not fully seated, most of the time they need 2 hits with the hammer -- one to fully seat them, and one to set them off.

 

Can't compress the powder too much

 

I ALWAYS use a nipple pick, ALWAYS!!
Nothing worse than a pop & no bang, because the nipple exit hole is blocked

 

Yes, some carbon build-up occurs, but a couple of swipes with a brass brush after each stage will get rid of it.

BUT, it is most likely the two things that Possum Skinner mentioned.

--Dawg

Edited May 1 by Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

+1 for nipple picks and firmly setting caps.  I also brush carbon off the nipples as needed to help insure ignition.  I see cap-only ignitions at every Plainsman match I shoot.  They are common and frustrating to those who experience them.

[Eyesa Horg]

A 3" honey dipper makes a nice pusher oner too! About $12 for 5 dozen on Amazon and you can give em out to your fellow Pards! 

Knock on wood, I haven't had an FTF and don't pick my nipples, ouch! I'm shooting 3F real BP and only use them Plainsman, so not as much opportunity for failure. Nipple picking sounds like it could be your answer.

[Sedalia Dave]

Confirm what powder you are using. APP, Real BP, Triple 7, Shooter's World Black, something else?

 

Are you using a lube over the balls?

 

What was the weather like?

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

I used to use my thumb until I saw a picture of what happens to your thumb when something goes bad.  Bought an antler push stick from a pard here on the wire and been using it ever since, on all of my cap guns.  Revolvers and single shot handguns and long guns.  It was a really gnarly picture....

 

+1 to picking the nipples as well.  May not be 100% necessary every time, but it sure doesn't hurt anything either.  Just got into the habit and now it is how I do it.  

[Choctaw Kid Tulsa]

21 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Confirm what powder you are using. APP, Real BP, Triple 7, Shooter's World Black, something else?

 

Are you using a lube over the balls?

 

What was the weather like?

Real Black, 2F. No lube over the ball. Humid Arkansas weather with a little rain over night, but powder stored in original container with lid screwed down.

[Eyesa Horg]

I saw one of those pix too! Gnarly is putting mildly!

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I load all my Cap Guns off the gun .

You can see the deer antler to the left of the loader .

I always use this on every cap on every gun .

Yes it could have been a loose cap .

I fell pushing on your caps is a must even using the Polish Capper .

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

[Eyesa Horg]

Damn Larsen, that left a mark!

[Griff]

If you were shooting Colts, I'd tell you to do a better job seating the caps & use a wire prick to clear the nipples.  Check that each cap has compound it it, my last tin I opened had several where the compound was missing or laying loose in the tin.  Maybe consider 3F...  But surely those magical, wondrous marvels of modern design,materials & manufacturing prowess can't possibly suffer the same indignities common to the vastly inferior arms of the mid 19th Century which embody the spirit, if not the very soul of the category

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

I’ve not shot frontiersman in many years but I shoot plainsman every time it’s offered at a big match. Also run ROA with .457 hornady balls and Remington #10 caps and load off the gun with an older version of the loader you’re using.

What everyone above said. Plus loading cylinders off the gun you can hold them up and look in each chamber to see if the nipples are blocked before loading. Even so a wire pick helps to make sure the passage way is clear. Of course moisture in the nipples or caps is not good. You might try 3f instead of 2f.

Edited May 1 by Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L

[Blackwater 53393]

If you’re loading off the gun, take your cylinder and hold it up to the light and examine each chamber to verify that the nipple isn’t blocked!!

 

After you charge your chambers, run your nipple pick into each nipple before putting the cylinder back into the gun.

 

When you cap your guns, be sure to fully seat the caps with some sort of push tool.

 

Carry your capper to the line on a tether or lanyard to replace caps that misfire! (I saved a couple of clean matches and probably picked up a couple of buckles/plaques by doing this)

[Cemetery]

@Choctaw Kid Tulsa Nipple pick being anything long enough, and slim enough to go through the flash hole.  Sewing needle, safety pin, paperclip, steel wire of some kind, or a dental pick .....

[Cemetery]

7 hours ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Yes, some carbon build-up occurs, but a couple of swipes with a brass brush after each stage will get rid of it.

 

@Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 do you mean a brass brush to use inside the cylinders? Or on the part of the nipple the cap goes on?

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

On the outside of the cylinder

Just a couple of swipes with a brass brush over the outside of the nipples, as they tend to get a bit sooty after a few stages.

--Dawg

[Doc McCoy, SASS #8381]

I shoot Frontiersman almost all the time, have for over 20 years.  I always visually check the chambers before the stage, looking through them toward the sky.  If I can see through the nipple, it's clear.

I use Eyesa's honey stick to seat the caps on my 1861 36s, I don't need it on my 1860 44s, just the capper.  My capper is the teardrop Cash style, not the polish.  I don't think that matters.

I do not do any maintenance on the guns after the first loading of the day.  I never check the nipples again, never brush them, never clean the bore.  All that runs for 6 stages without attention.  And yet cap-only ignition is very rare for me.  I have Slix nipples, run all brands of FF, you should not need FFF in ROA.  But then too, every gun is different, so try anything.  You certainly have a good batch of ideas in this thread.

I do not feel like there is a connection between cap-only ignition and not being fully seated.  Typically, when they are not fully seated, they are more likely to not fire at all on the first hammer hit; then fire on the second hit.

[Kid Rich]

If you are only using 20gs of powder you might consider upping that by 5-7gs. If you are nit getting enough blowback to clear the nipple you will have ignition problems on subsequent loadings. My wife shoots 36's and uses 20gs of 3f.

kR

[Lucky R. K.]

1 hour ago, Kid Rich said:

If you are only using 20gs of powder you might consider upping that by 5-7gs. If you are nit getting enough blowback to clear the nipple you will have ignition problems on subsequent loadings.

This is a good point that hasn't been made before. Blowback is a big part of clearing the nipple. 

Lucky 

[Sedalia Dave]

When you are shooting do you ever notice a slight delay between when the cap fires and when the powder ignites? You should not be able to hear any delay between the cap firing and the powder igniting.

 

As others have stated visually check that the nipples are clear before loading. I use canned air to clear any obstructed nipples before loading. The little red tube fits perfectly inside the nipple.

 

Keep track of which chamber(s) don't fire. See if it is the same one every time.

 

Use a push stick to seat the caps. Not sure if he is still active but SplitThumb should tell you all you need to know about seating caps with your fingers. 

[Choctaw Kid Tulsa]

Lots of great insights, suggestions, and one kinda scary pic. LOL

 

Thanks!

 

I've found a deer antler piece I can use for a push stick. Next item is to raid the wife's crafty supplies for a safety pin for a nipple pick.

 

@Sedalia Dave, no I've never noticed a hang fire or any delay between cap and boom. 

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

20 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Double gnarly!!!

[Sedalia Dave]

Last thing is be sure that sweat is not dripping off your hat and landing on the cylinder. When I first started shooting C&B pistols shot a match in light rain. I had issues with chambers not igniting. Turned out that when I looked down water was dripping off the brim of my hat and landing on the cylinder. 

 

With a little care C&B pistols can be shot in heavy rain. Shot 2023 Comin At Cha with zero fail to fire despite the heavy rain. The roar in the background is the rain hitting the tin roof.

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Did the caps fire?

Have you played with the hammer springs?

Was the FTF the same gun?

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

...With a little care C&B pistols can be shot in heavy rain. Shot 2023 Comin At Cha with zero fail to fire despite the heavy rain. The roar in the background is the rain hitting the tin roof.

Now them plastic bags was some good thinkin'! 

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Now them plastic bags was some good thinkin'! 

 

Yep. I shot through the first one but then discovered that the bag filled with smoke meant that I couldn't see the front sight. Hence the makeup with the shotgun.

 

I loaned the bags to Griff to keep his C&B pistols dry on that stage as well. We both shot the entire match in the rain without our C&B pistols malfunctioning.

[J-BAR #18287]

On 4/30/2025 at 1:12 PM, Choctaw Kid Tulsa said:

All,

 

I’ve been shooting Frontiersman for 6+ months and love it. I shot Hell On the Border last week and ran into some problems I could use help in diagnosing. I’m shooting ROA’s with ~20gr of 2F Schuetzen, Slix Nipples, 457 Hornady balls, Remington #10 caps, and load off gun with a Bang and Clang tower.  

 

Over the course of two days I had 4 ignition problems. The caps went off but failed to ignite the powder. After the stage, I recapped the misfired cylinder and the cylinder fired as normal.

 

I think, I may have one or more of the following problems, but any additional insight would be helpful.

1) The caps aren’t being fully seated on the nipple, especially after the first round. I’m using the polish capper but don’t have a “capper stick” to further push the cap down. Maybe after the first stage, the carbon builds up and makes a loose fit? I’ve been using my thumb to make sure the caps are on the nipple (sometimes they do wiggle)…..but maybe I need a stick and to be more aggressive and really wedge those caps on?? Can you overpress a cap onto the nipple?

 

2) Is it possible that I’m compacting the black powder too much in the cylinder? Is that a thing? When I load the balls, I compress the powder as much as possible and bottom out the lever.

 

During my normal monthly matches, I typically see at most one misfire, if that. Having 4 makes me think i must be doing something wrong.

 

I replaced the nipples that came with the guns with Slix 2 months ago. A local pard recommended Treso nipples, but they seem to have gone out of business.

 

Any thoughts to help cure the problem would be greatly appreciated.

 

Choctaw Kid

 

21 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

If you’re loading off the gun, take your cylinder and hold it up to the light and examine each chamber to verify that the nipple isn’t blocked!!

 

After you charge your chambers, run your nipple pick into each nipple before putting the cylinder back into the gun.

 

When you cap your guns, be sure to fully seat the caps with some sort of push tool.

 

Carry your capper to the line on a tether or lanyard to replace caps that misfire! (I saved a couple of clean matches and probably picked up a couple of buckles/plaques by doing this)

 

I agree with Blackwater.  Go figure.

 

20 grains of 2F Schuetzen is a great load.  No need to change.

 

 Please use a push stick to seat the cap all the way down onto the nipple.  But I don't think this was your problem.  The caps ignited but the flame did not reach the powder charge because the vent hole in the nipple was blocked with crud.  Make sure the nipple is clear by using a nipple pick AFTER charging the chamber with powder and ball.  You will feel the "crunch" of the powder as the pick goes through the vent hole.  It's a good feeling!

Have fun with your cap guns.  I did!

 

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

This works great. The wire is retractable so it doesn’t get bent and can be found in any store that sells muzzle loading supplies. Also available on Amazon. 
 

[Eyesa Horg]

A lot of the T handle nipple wrenches also have one built in.

[Cemetery]

19 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

20 grains of 2F Schuetzen is a great load.  No need to change.

 

 

I just discovered this last weekend.  Very little recoil, accurate with my 457 roundball .... less powder consumption, and less fouling to clean up afterwards .... real home run!!

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

This works great. The wire is retractable so it doesn’t get bent and can be found in any store that sells muzzle loading supplies. Also available on Amazon. 
 

This is what I use.

[J-BAR #18287]

I made my own nipple picks, because I'm cheap and always losing stuff.

 

 Epoxy a piece of spring wire (make sure the wire fits through the nipple of course) into an empty brass case.  Make several and put them with your powder and caps for range use.  Ta-Da!

 

(I can't post a photo for a couple of days, but will if you want later in the weekend)

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

4 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

This works great. The wire is retractable so it doesn’t get bent and can be found in any store that sells muzzle loading supplies. Also available on Amazon. 
 

 

I acquired one of these through unusual circumstances.  I had a career at a major laboratory in health and safety.  Someone found one of these in a parking lot and thought it might be a radioactive source.  My technicians responded to an "emergency scene" and quickly determined it was not radioactive.  When I examined it, I quickly identified it as a nipple pick that probably fell off a black powder shooter's key chain.  After all the needed photos were taken for the official emergency response report I was given the nipple pick since I had a use for it.  I used it on my ROAs for years until it fell apart.