Reloading question

[9245]

I am attempting to reload some .44-40 to as close to period correct as possible, and I’ve pretty much got it all figured out, I’ll be using a hand cast bullet that is very similar to the original, 50/50 beeswax and Crisco (I could not find enough tallow in quantity to even approach affordability, so I substituted Crisco), 40 grains (volumetric) of 3f Swiss crammed in with a compression die.  However the only primers I have on hand are magnums, will that be an issue?  Or are magnums maybe exactly what I want given the compressed load?

 

Brass is once fired (by me) Magtech, all I could get ahold of.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, 9245 said:

I am attempting to reload some .44-40 to as close to period correct as possible, and I’ve pretty much got it all figured out, I’ll be using a hand cast bullet that is very similar to the original, 50/50 beeswax and Crisco (I could not find enough tallow in quantity to even approach affordability, so I substituted Crisco), 40 grains (volumetric) of 3f Swiss crammed in with a compression die.  However the only primers I have on hand are magnums, will that be an issue?  Or are magnums maybe exactly what I want given the compressed load?

 

Brass is once fired (by me) Magtech, all I could get ahold of.

In his book Shooting black powder guns, Mike Venturino actually recommended magnum primers. I used them when I could get them when I shot BP. I never could get 40 grs in though, the best I did was about 35-37 

[Alpo]

Yeah, I was wondering how he got 40 grains of powder in there.

 

The 40 grains of powder was shoved into an old fashioned balloon head case.

 

 

Modern solid head cases don't have that much room.

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 hours ago, 9245 said:

I’ll be using a hand cast bullet that is very similar to the original, 50/50 beeswax and Crisco (I could not find enough tallow in quantity to even approach affordability, so I substituted Crisco)

 

Maybe use lard instead of tallow or Crisco.  It was pretty much the universal lubricant back in the day. 

[9245]

45 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Yeah, I was wondering how he got 40 grains of powder in there.

 

The 40 grains of powder was shoved into an old fashioned balloon head case.

 

 

Modern solid head cases don't have that much room.

Hence the need for the compression die.  I have never tried it before so I will let you know how it goes.  From what I have heard before (and it may or may not be correct), 40 grains should fill the case all the way to the top, leaving no room for the bullet, which is why it then has to be compressed.  Once compressed you should just be able to cram a bullet in, it’s doable but extra work.  I doubt I will load many like this (hence why I’m only loading 100 for now), but I wanted to see what the original load would feel like and actually do, I plan to chrono these.  May not even be possible, I intend to find out.

 

The compression die, without digging it back out, I believe is just a 45/70 seating die with a steel rod inserted in to it in place of the normal plunger, it’s milled to be exactly .44 caliber, so basically it just needs to be run through that first and then you should be able to seat as normal.

 

(FYI the die is not permanently modified, it has the original part with it and can be switched back should I ever have to load 45/70)

 

I am hoping to actually load them in the next few days now that I finally have everything ready, I’ll post my results.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I’ve always left a little room at the top of case for the bullet to go in. You don’t have to smash it down you just have to have no space. 35 grains is plenty and safe 

Edited April 26, 2025 by Rye Miles #13621

[Alpo]

Two thoughts.

 

Number one - if you have to compress the powder that much to get the bullet in, it seems like you could possibly be crushing powder grains. Crushing the powder grains makes finer powder, and finer powder build more pressure. You shoot the same load with 2F powder and with 3F powder, and as I understand it the 3F will have more power and more recoil. So this won't feel like it did back then because it will have more recoil than it did back then.

 

Number two - even if the compressing does not crush the granules, with the solid head case you have less room for gas expansion, which means you will, again, have more pressure. And thus it will not feel like they did back then.

 

Just my opinion. Both times.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Back off on the powder till you only compress about 1/8" when the bullet is seated.

Mag primer is OK.

Go to std primer when you can....

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Lumpy just gave you the best advice you can get for this question. 

You go Mr. Gritz 🤣

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

First off, You need to consider the reduced case volume, since it is less in modern brass, you don't need Quite as much Powder to reach the same pressure... I have pressure and velocity tested loads that my grandfather left me, going as far as pulling some bullets from corroded cases and using them in modern cases, and loading them into star-line brass using my method of loading, This is how I load to duplicate both the pressure and velocity generated by the original loads, that I shoot in this Game... First of I use Goex 3f, I drop-tube in enough that is well settled so as to need to be compressed 3/16 by seating the bullet. In the case of my brass and bullet this is 37.3 grains by weight. This load burns cleaner that loads not drop-tubed, and exactly duplicates the original loads, that my Grandfather left me from the period of 1876- 1919 all loaded with Holy Black... By the way you can't load the original bullets over 37.3 grains without damaging them if you Don't drop-tube them through a tube of at least 24 inches in length.  So your idea holds no water...

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

I should mention that I use Standard Winchester LP primers ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

[9245]

Update, well I attempted to load 40 grains, it fills the case completely.  I was able to successfully compress the load and get a bullet to seat, however it caused the bottom of the case to bulge and thus failed the drop test.  I tried again with less compression and got the same result.

 

Then I tried with 35 grains~ by weight (about 1/8 inch below the case mouth) and it loaded with no issues, and save for one round that somehow bulged, all passed the drop test.

 

I finished up with a Lee factory crimp die.  I did use the magnum primers.  The bullet is Lyman 427098.  I cast with pure lead but came up with 220 grains vs. the 205 I expected, however I also didn’t weigh it until after lubing, so it’s possible the extra weight was just that.

 

Any idea the velocity I can expect from a 4.75 inch barrel revolver?

Edited May 5, 2025 by 9245

[Alpo]

47 minutes ago, 9245 said:

 I cast with pure lead but came up with 220 grains vs. the 205 I expected, however I also didn’t weigh it until after lubing, so it’s possible the extra weight was just that.

When a mold company advertises that "this mold cast the bullet that weighs x grains", that is normally based on the Lyman number 2 alloy, which is a mixture of lead and tin and antimony.

 

Both tin and antimony are lighter than lead.

 

If you take x volume of pure lead, and then you take x volume of 90% lead 10% tin, the second piece will be lighter than the first one because 10% of it is made from a much lighter metal.

 

 

[9245]

I just melted the lube off one and got 219.5 grains, though it should be noted that the bullet had some minor pits, so actual weight is probably closer to 220.