Crimping 'hot' ammo: Roll vs Collet

[Widder, SASS #59054]

First, a little background info:

In loading up some .454 Casull and 500 S&W ammo, I use an excellent ROLL crimp die that came with each set of dies,

plus I had a good 'LEE factory crimp' die to use for the .454 Casull also.

 

BOTH of those 'stout' reloads maintained their proper OAL while firing numerous other rounds thru the revolver.

 

Now for my 460 S&W reloads.

I'm gonna be testing my new LEE 'collet' style crimp die on some of my ammo AND I will also test

my ROLL crimp on the same type loaded ammo.

I'll be eager to see which style of crimp might work best under 460 recoil.

My loads will be 300 grain XTP's and 40.0 LilGun.

 

I measure and mark one piece of ammo, put it in the revolver with ONLY ONE other round, which is then fired.

Then I measure the marked round.

I repeat this process for 5 fired rounds and make notations of OAL of the marked round between each firing.

 

I've never used a 'collet' style crimp before so I'm eager to test it out.

 

Do ANY of the Wire Pards have experience with the collet style die?    

 

THANKS

 

..........Widder

 

[Alpo]

The collet die is what the Lee factory crimp die uses for bottleneck cases. It has three fingers that come out from the side of the die and push the case into the side of the bullet.

 

The factory crimp die for straight wall cases is just another roll crimp.

 

I have been using the collet die on my bottleneck rifle cartridges ever since I found out it existed. But I was unaware they made a collet for a straight wall case.

[Pat Riot]

To add to what Alpo said:

 

Except, the Lee Factory Crimp die is a kind of roll crimp, BUT it puts pressure from the sides of the cartridge mouth unlike a roll crimp die which puts pressure downward on the case mouth to create the crimp. 
 

I factory crimp all my revolver ammunition. The factory crimp die is also forgiving if cases aren’t all sized the same. 

[El Chapo]

The Lee factory crimp die is known to reduce the size of bullets and cause leading, so I have never used it with a revolver.

 

For hard recoiling revolver loads I have always used a strong roll crimp.

 

That includes 45 Colt "Ruger only," .460 S&W, .454 Casull, and even good old .357 Magnum to share the ones I've loaded successfully.

Edited March 21 by El Chapo

[Pat Riot]

11 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

The Lee factory crimp die is known to reduce the size of bullets and cause leading, so I have never used it with a revolver.

I have never seen this.
I do know if you over crimp plated bullets the plating will come off when firing. Bullets like Berry’s cannot take much of a crimp. 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I think LEE makes a roll crimp die for the 460, BUT.... the specific die that I

have actually says:  'LEE Collet Style Crimp Die,  460 S&W'.

 

It specifically states... '460 S&W'.

 

And, it is a 4 petal (4 sections) die.

 

I like the looks of the crimp and I should find out tomorrow its effectiveness on some

good ole 460 reloads.

 

..........Widder

 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Widder, what I have found is that just belling the case mouth and not expanding the case is as much or more important than the crimp. 
Learned that from Hamilton Bowen in his book talking about the harder kickers.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy Boggus.

 

Thats interesting.   I've done that with my rifle calibers (6BR, 22-250, etc...) but never have

done it with my magnum pistol reloads.

I have noticed on some FACTORY ammo for the 500 and 460 that some manufacturers seem

to use the collet style crimp..... and some don't.

 

Anyhow, I'll report my results as soon as I can get back on the farm and do some 'shoot'n'.

 

P.S. - Hamiltom Bowen lives about 8-10 miles from me, in the same county.

I've met him but I've never visited his shop.   Shame on me!   He's got a great reputation.

 

..........Widder

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Widder

I have used the Lee FCD on my FA .454 Casull since 1997.

Never had a bullet hold issue. 

2 hours ago, El Chapo said:

The Lee factory crimp die is known to reduce the size of bullets and cause leading, so I have never used it with a revolver.

 

For hard recoiling revolver loads I have always used a strong roll crimp.

 

That includes 45 Colt "Ruger only," .460 S&W, .454 Casull, and even good old .357 Magnum to share the ones I've loaded successfully.

What is your source for that information? Do you have a link?

I use the FCD on all of my handgun ammo and have need seen this issue.

[El Chapo]

6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Widder

I have used the Lee FCD on my FA .454 Casull since 1997.

Never had a bullet hold issue. 

What is your source for that information? Do you have a link?

I use the FCD on all of my handgun ammo and have need seen this issue.

 

If you were to search the Cast Boolit forum, the question has been asked so many times and that has been the answer that it isn't something I've personally tried because it would be considered "common knowledge" over there.

 

Perhaps you have tighter barrels?  I haven't taken the chance.  I size all of my cowboy bullets to .358 and have not had an issue.

[Doc Shapiro]

Can't comment on the crimp, but your wrists are in better shape than mine.  Loads that stout are very painful for me.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy DOC.   Hope you are doing well.

 

Those BIG pistols do have a noticeable 'buck & roar' effect,  but their grip design, plus

a good glove and wrist wrap, help.    Although mine is a 5" model 460 w/comp, and TW's

is the 4" model 500 w/comp,  the longer barrel models are not bad at all to shoot.

 

Their power is awe-inspiring.   And the wrist does feel a little sore the next day..

And I know this sounds funny, but if you want to have fun shooting the 460 model with some

hot .454 Casull loads, just shoot the 500 first......... and then those Casull loads dont seem

bad at all.....

 

Take care.

 

..........Widder

 

[Doc Shapiro]

4 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Howdy DOC.   Hope you are doing well.

 

Those BIG pistols do have a noticeable 'buck & roar' effect,  but their grip design, plus

a good glove and wrist wrap, help.    Although mine is a 5" model 460 w/comp, and TW's

is the 4" model 500 w/comp,  the longer barrel models are not bad at all to shoot.

 

Their power is awe-inspiring.   And the wrist does feel a little sore the next day..

And I know this sounds funny, but if you want to have fun shooting the 460 model with some

hot .454 Casull loads, just shoot the 500 first......... and then those Casull loads dont seem

bad at all.....

 

Take care.

 

..........Widder

 

 

Doing well, and now that we're in the mountains of Idaho, I'm literally living my childhood dream.  And it exceeds all my expectations.

 

I've broken several bones in my hands, and all but 1 in my wrists.  That kind of recoil is not something I'm able to do again without a lot of pain.  Glad you're enjoying it though.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

9 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

Can't comment on the crimp, but your wrists are in better shape than mine.  Loads that stout are very painful for me.

Gotten the same for me. 

[Vail Vigilante]

I have heard stories of people using roll-crimp + glue on some of the hot stuff.

On a side note, Winchester used glue on their original loading for the 458 Win Mag.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

19 hours ago, Vail Vigilante said:

I have heard stories of people using roll-crimp + glue on some of the hot stuff.

On a side note, Winchester used glue on their original loading for the 458 Win Mag.

It was a Asphalt base adhesive they used.

The same thing that was used on their military ammo.

On 3/21/2025 at 10:32 PM, El Chapo said:

 

If you were to search the Cast Boolit forum, the question has been asked so many times and that has been the answer that it isn't something I've personally tried because it would be considered "common knowledge" over there.

 

Perhaps you have tighter barrels?  I haven't taken the chance.  I size all of my cowboy bullets to .358 and have not had an issue.

What page on the forum would I look at?

[El Chapo]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

It was a Asphalt base adhesive they used.

The same thing that was used on their military ammo.

What page on the forum would I look at?

Like any forum, especially one with millions of posts, you would search. 

 

But, fwiw, if what you're doing is working for you, keep doing it.

Edited March 25 by El Chapo

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, El Chapo said:

Like any forum, especially one with millions of posts, you would search. 

 

But, fwiw, if what you're doing is working for you, keep doing it.

I did search, found nut'n.....

That's why I asked.  

[El Chapo]

7 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

I did search, found nut'n.....

That's why I asked.  

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?384132-44-40-Factory-crimp-or-taper-crimp&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?88868-Lee-factory-crimp-with-out-the-crimp&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?149737-Help-with-40-crimp-die-suggestions&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?169788-My-Factory-crimp-die-question-for-today&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?126000-Question-about-Lee-Factory-Crimp-Die&highlight=factory+crimp

 

These came from just the first page of search results.  I stopped there. 

 

It looks like some have removed the carbide sizing ring from their FCDs to eliminate the issue.

 

I use the Lee FCD in .223 for my blasting/3 gun ammo so I'm not opposed to the product.  In fact, I am a huge fan of Lee's products in general.  100% of the bullets I have ever shot in SASS came out of a Lee bullet mold, for example.  All of them were sized on a Lee press.  All of the non-factory shotgun shells I have ever shot in a SASS event came off of a Lee load all.

 

The advice of many long time bullet casters on the internet convinced me not to try it for that one application.

 

But if what you're doing is working, you should probably not change because I was scared off by this advice.  That said, that forum is where I learned to cast, and what drew me to SASS was my cast bullets, so that's how I got here.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

15 hours ago, El Chapo said:

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?384132-44-40-Factory-crimp-or-taper-crimp&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?88868-Lee-factory-crimp-with-out-the-crimp&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?149737-Help-with-40-crimp-die-suggestions&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?169788-My-Factory-crimp-die-question-for-today&highlight=factory+crimp

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?126000-Question-about-Lee-Factory-Crimp-Die&highlight=factory+crimp

 

These came from just the first page of search results.  I stopped there. 

 

It looks like some have removed the carbide sizing ring from their FCDs to eliminate the issue.

 

I use the Lee FCD in .223 for my blasting/3 gun ammo so I'm not opposed to the product.  In fact, I am a huge fan of Lee's products in general.  100% of the bullets I have ever shot in SASS came out of a Lee bullet mold, for example.  All of them were sized on a Lee press.  All of the non-factory shotgun shells I have ever shot in a SASS event came off of a Lee load all.

 

The advice of many long time bullet casters on the internet convinced me not to try it for that one application.

 

But if what you're doing is working, you should probably not change because I was scared off by this advice.  That said, that forum is where I learned to cast, and what drew me to SASS was my cast bullets, so that's how I got here.

Thanks for the links.   Noticed many of those posts are 10 to 15 yrs old.

Only one revolver cartridge is mentioned, all else are semi-auto cartridges. 

I use the FCD for every handgun cartridge I load. Never have had any issue.

I also spot check my ammo in a Dillon case gauge.