Slip Hammering And Duelist

[KatfishKid]

I've been training myself to learn double duelist and since I am new to all of this I haven't been able to shoot with anyone that shoots duelist or double duelist, so I have no idea if I am training myself to learn bad habits. I have been playing around with slip hammering, holding the trigger down and working the hammer to fire. I have no idea if this a technique duelist/double duelist use or not...I’ve tried finding videos on YouTube to see how other duelists shoot, but I haven’t had much luck. Since I haven’t shot a match yet, I also haven’t seen experienced shooters do it in person. When I play around shooting with both hands/traditional I feel like Its very comfortable to slip hammer and I'm able to empty the gun accurately and faster than I feel like a revolver should be 🤣

I shoot double duelist, and my right hand feels pretty solid, but my left hand double taps occasionally. If its a stage that requires multiple shots on a single target, that technique is probably pretty useful. I am able to control my gun well enough that I don't throw the round when it happens, usually both rounds will dern near smack the same spot, so I don't feel like its a safety issue when it does happen, but obviously I want avoid the Ps.  I’ve tried the more deliberate “lower the hammer, then squeeze the trigger” method, but it feels slow.

So, should I keep working on slip hammering and trust that I’ll smooth it out with practice? Or, since I’m still early in the game, should I train myself to lower the hammer, then pull the trigger to avoid any bad habits and hope that in time It'll be faster?

Would love to hear how others approach this, especially any other double duelists. Also, if anyone knows of good videos that show different techniques, I’d really appreciate it!

[July Smith]

I too am fairly new to SASS.  I have always shot a category that requires some sort of one handed pistol shooting.  I have talked with many shooters both shooting traditional and duelist style and I have yet to meet one person that claims to slip hammer.  Even the traditional two handed shooters that regularly shoot in the teens claim they at least intend to pull the trigger individually per shot.  This game is really all about transitions from one firearm to the next.  I am sure more experienced shooters will chime in here with more helpful advice.  Welcome to the game!

[Hoss]

I’ve found once you start slip hammering (as a 2 handed shooter) it’s pretty hard to go back.  I don’t think many dualist slip hammer. I’d strongly suggest you master dualist before trying. 

[Shooting Bull]

Absolutely 100% personal opinion here. Slip hammering to me is far less accurate than conventional firing. Therefore I don’t think the reward is worth the risk. The tenths of seconds you might save by slip hammering isn’t worth the five second misses it can generate. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I could never slip hammer as a duelist, I think my hands are too small. Now my arthritis forced me into two handed shooting I could slip hammer but I don’t like doing it. Iv3 heard it’s not good for the guns. I shoot Colts maybe Rugers are okay but I dry fire using the trigger every time. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

There have been discussions of this before.  Most top shooter do not slip-hammer but some top shooters do.  It is actually a tiny bit easier on the gun than pulling the trigger (less wear on the sears).  It is the hard cocking that is hard on the guns, and that is the same with either style.  I haven't heard of any duelist saying they do it.

[July Smith]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Dfizrk_DcSc?si=Nte8zCTxrFcLSTpk

https://youtube.com/shorts/7OeZWRAo0SI?si=UlwOiGx_OrJXgklS

https://youtube.com/shorts/pRgrGtrfbEE?si=Vyyzp6-y8-1e-l_J

 

Dragon Hill Dave is probably the fastest duelist I have seen in person.  At least a few years ago he told me he does not slip fire.  He is an extremely smooth shooter.

Edited March 12 by July Smith

[Leroy Luck]

I personally don’t slip hammer and have never tried. I always release the trigger and pull it once it’s cocked.
 

As a double duelist shooter myself… my recommendation is to get good using both hands, get good at transitions, and learn to handle your shotgun. Then start focusing on the little things. 
 

What are your average stage times currently? I ask this because if you are worried about techniques to cut tenths of seconds, but you are still shooting in the 30s or higher then you’re spinning your wheels. I’d focus on techniques to cut your times as low as you can before you start nitpicking tenths of seconds off of your stage times. 
 

My big recommendation that seems to draw a bunch of naysayers is to focus on hitting the target. You can’t outshoot your misses… in some cases you can, but most cases that statement stands. 
 

There’s one fellow that beat me at Land Run that I’d love to watch and get some tips from him. But he’s across the country from me and that’s hard to do. I haven’t seen him post videos either. 

Edited March 12 by Leroy Luck

[July Smith]

9 minutes ago, Leroy Luck said:

What are your average stage times currently? I ask this because if you are worried about techniques to cut tenths of seconds, but you are still shooting in the 30s or higher then you’re spinning your wheels. I’d focus on techniques to cut your times as low as you can before you start nitpicking tenths of seconds off of your stage times. 

Excellent point.

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

1 hour ago, KatfishKid said:

 I’ve tried the more deliberate “lower the hammer, then squeeze the trigger” method, but it feels slow.

 

 Or, since I’m still early in the game, should I train myself to lower the hammer, then pull the trigger to avoid any bad habits and hope that in time It'll be faster?

 

I don't understand your statement twice about lowering the hammer and then squeeze (pull) the trigger.  It should be cock the hammer and then pull the trigger.  As others have already stated learn to shoot duelist or in your case double duelist and then work on transitions.  Forget the slip hammer technique.

Edited March 12 by Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L

[KatfishKid]

12 minutes ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

I don't understand your statement twice about lowering the hammer and then squeeze (pull) the trigger.  It should be cock the hammer and then pull the trigger.  As others have already stated learn to shoot duelist or in your case double duelist and then work on transitions.  Forget the slip hammer technique.

That's just me and my inability to explain things. Yes, cock the hammer..not lower the hammer. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, KatfishKid said:

...I shoot double duelist, and my right hand feels pretty solid, but my left hand double taps occasionally....

I don't understand how you can accidently double tap shooting duelist.

[KatfishKid]

40 minutes ago, Leroy Luck said:

I personally don’t slip hammer and have never tried. I always release the trigger and pull it once it’s cocked.
 

As a double duelist shooter myself… my recommendation is to get good using both hands, get good at transitions, and learn to handle your shotgun. Then start focusing on the little things. 
 

What are your average stage times currently? I ask this because if you are worried about techniques to cut tenths of seconds, but you are still shooting in the 30s or higher then you’re spinning your wheels. I’d focus on techniques to cut your times as low as you can before you start nitpicking tenths of seconds off of your stage times. 
 

My big recommendation that seems to draw a bunch of naysayers is to focus on hitting the target. You can’t outshoot your misses… in some cases you can, but most cases that statement stands. 
 

There’s one fellow that beat me at Land Run that I’d love to watch and get some tips from him. But he’s across the country from me and that’s hard to do. I haven’t seen him post videos either. 

Perfect! Thank you. I've always been decent at shooting both left or right handed. Since I am predominantly right handed, I am obviously most comfortable with that. I have no idea why I started slip hammering, I started doing it the moment I received my pistols and started practicing..I just assumed that was the way it was done, maybe I heard something somewhere or seen something, but I had it in my head that cowboy action shooters slip hammered. As I am learning, that is not the case.

My transitions need work for sure, but I am getting better at removing wasted movement and I'm also getting better at making sure my off hand is getting ready for the next task. My shotgun work is decent and my rifle work is fluid, I am currently working on how I set down and pick up my guns, as I feel I waste a lot of time in that area. 

My faster practice stages are in the low 20s, but I feel like I red line and I'm always on the verge of fumbling something. My goal is to average 25 seconds clean every time. Once my transitions are more fluid and I get the pistols figured out, I think this will be easy for me to hit. By the end of the season I hope to consistently see stages in the teens. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

This is from a few years ago and Coffinmaker is a bonafide gunsmith!

 

Colorado Coffinmaker

•  

 

•  

Posted March 31, 2021

I don't personally have any real world experience with the "New and Improved" (gag, choke, puke) retractable.  But running the gun hard for "Sliphammer" ain't real good for the locking bolt or slots.

Edited March 12 by Rye Miles #13621

[KatfishKid]

3 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I don't understand how you can accidently double tap shooting duelist.

I really dont know. But I do. @The Revenuer brought this to my attention during a practice stage last weekend and it made me realize I do it quit often. 

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

44 minutes ago, KatfishKid said:

Perfect! Thank you. I've always been decent at shooting both left or right handed. Since I am predominantly right handed, I am obviously most comfortable with that. I have no idea why I started slip hammering, I started doing it the moment I received my pistols and started practicing..I just assumed that was the way it was done, maybe I heard something somewhere or seen something, but I had it in my head that cowboy action shooters slip hammered. As I am learning, that is not the case.

My transitions need work for sure, but I am getting better at removing wasted movement and I'm also getting better at making sure my off hand is getting ready for the next task. My shotgun work is decent and my rifle work is fluid, I am currently working on how I set down and pick up my guns, as I feel I waste a lot of time in that area. 

My faster practice stages are in the low 20s, but I feel like I red line and I'm always on the verge of fumbling something. My goal is to average 25 seconds clean every time. Once my transitions are more fluid and I get the pistols figured out, I think this will be easy for me to hit. By the end of the season I hope to consistently see stages in the teens. 

Those are great times as a goal.  Pratice is one thing but when the timer goes off in a real match, well that is something special.  At first you will most likely be working on which targets in what order and from where you are supposed to shoot them from.   Go shoot some matches and have fun!  Don't overthink this and make it work instead of enjoyment.

[KatfishKid]

15 minutes ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

Those are great times as a goal.  Pratice is one thing but when the timer goes off in a real match, well that is something special.  At first you will most likely be working on which targets in what order and from where you are supposed to shoot them from.   Go shoot some matches and have fun!  Don't overthink this and make it work instead of enjoyment.

Me not overthink something? How does one do that? 🤣 Oh man, the targets and target order is what I'm most concerned about. Luckily our club has helpful TOs 🤣

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

2 minutes ago, KatfishKid said:

Me not overthink something? How does one do that? 🤣 Oh man, the targets and target order is what I'm most concerned about. Luckily our club has helpful TOs 🤣

You will do just fine.  Go shoot some matches.

[KatfishKid]

9 minutes ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

You will do just fine.  Go shoot some matches.

My first match is the Saturday after next. I'm excited! 

[Eyesa Horg]

2 hours ago, KatfishKid said:

My first match is the Saturday after next. I'm excited! 

You'll have a ball. 🤠 Enjoy!

[El Muerto Negro]

I personally don't slip hammer and cant recall speaking to a Duelist that does. Some supported shooters slip hammer. Some always, others depending on stage design. Smokestack posted a video of him slip hammering as a Duelist pretty cool but not for me. Transitions are the key to this category.  You can shoot all your guns faster individually and still lose.  Because the other guys transitions are just better.

 

EMN

[oak creek martin]

Slip hammering is the devel.  You can’t craw fish him and win like that. It’s a hard habit to stop!

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

I highly recommend that you don't slip hammer as a Duelist, it will really hurt you on things such as a plate rack or a Texas Star. I've shot Double Duelist for several years and transitions is where you'll save time and if you miss a transition it's not a 5 second penalty. There are a lot of faster duelist shooters out there than me but I do ok and would not even consider slip hammering.

 

Thanks

Randy

 

 

[Equanimous Phil]

Randy, your video is a good example why well timed and smooth cocking and trigger coordination can look like slip hammering to newer shooters. Great stage!

[Flanigan Flats]

I am not in Randy’s league. But I try to be deliberate and smooth. But mostly I just try to have fun. 
 

video your practice and watch the videos they’ll tell you where you can improve 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

Flanagan,

Tip - next practice when drawing pistols, have free hand on other pistol. If pistols are last, don’t wait to holster first pistol before drawing second. Hold first pistol out (don’t break 170) and shoot second pistol. 

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

22 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

Absolutely 100% personal opinion here. Slip hammering to me is far less accurate than conventional firing. Therefore I don’t think the reward is worth the risk. The tenths of seconds you might save by slip hammering isn’t worth the five second misses it can generate. 

+100

[Scarlett]

You have gotten some very good advice here from several world and national champions. 
 

Practice makes PERMANENT. PERFECT practice is what you want.  
 

I would go to a match/shoot a match before you get more habits (good or bad) ingrained. There’s nothing that can prepare you for the adrenaline rush of the beeper. The 170 degree cone when moving, cocking revolver before 45 degrees etc are just a couple of things that can get you in some trouble. It’s not necessary, realistic or safe, in my opinion, to try to be competitive out of the gate with shooters who have been shooting for years. It’s simply too hard to replicate the stage feel by yourself. I get that you don’t want be shooting 90 second stages etc…  you gotta start somewhere. We all did. 

 

Come to a match. Have some FUN and learn from/with folks who will fall all over themselves to help you be successful and safe. 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

Edited March 13 by Scarlett
Emphasis

[Scarlett]

23 hours ago, KatfishKid said:

My first match is the Saturday after next. I'm excited! 

Looked at your profile and see you are in Evansville, IN! Lucky you! You’ve got some of the nicest folks around to help you get a good solid start! @The Revenuer, @Whiskey Belle, her parents, @Duke Skywalker, SASS # 26871 and lots of others whose aliases are escaping me or are not on the Wire. 
 

We are scheduled to be at the Westside Renegades Spring Round Up the second weekend of May. Hope to meet you then! 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

Edited March 13 by Scarlett
Grammar

[KatfishKid]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Looked at your profile and see you are in Evansville, IN! Lucky you! You’ve got some of the nicest folks around to help you get a good solid start! @The Revenuer, @Whiskey Belle, her parents, @Duke Skywalker, SASS # 26871 and lots of others whose aliases are escaping me or are not on the Wire. 
 

We are scheduled to be at the Westside Renegades Spring Round Up the second weekend of May. Hope to meet you then! 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

Yeppers! I will be at the Spring Round Up for sure. Between the The Revenuer, Whiskey Belle and Persimmon Dan, I've been learning so much it's crazy.

The Westside Renegades are some of the nicest folks I've ever met. I'm proud to be one of them now.