A 9mm Autoloader Question for Those in the Know

[Pat Riot]

I have an interest in all 5 of the guns listed in the heading. ALL 5 are 9mm

Sig Sauer P226 M25 - Navy Seal weapon until 2015. 
Sig Sauer P229 M11A1 -Military version - this is the gun I am leaning towards.  
Beretta 92FS M9 - Military pistol for many years. 
Springfield Ronin 4.25” - lesser expensive 1911

Springfield Garrison 4.25” - budget 1911

Do any of you have experience with any of these and what are your thoughts?

I must admit that I am leaning towards the Sig Sauers, but I like the idea of the other 3 as well. 
I have shot other people’s Sigs and have always been vicariously impressed with them.

I have only handled the Beretta 92FS. Never shot one. 
I have never owned or fired a 9mm 1911, but have lots of experience with full sized .45 ACP 1911s. 

I picked Springfield Armory models because they are USA made and from what I have read, very reliable. 
 

What are your thoughts on these guns?

 

Thank you. 

[Rip Snorter]

SIG 229 is excellent and can be kitted out in multiple calibers.  Mine is excellent and set up in 2 out of 4 possible calibers.  I don't have any of the others on your list, but suggest the Browning Hi-Power if you want a 9 - SAS used it for many years as did Seals. An excellent and reliable pistol.

Edited March 9 by Rip Snorter
Typo

[Pat Riot]

42 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

SIG 229 is excellent and can be kitted out in multiple calibers.  Mine is excellent and set up in 2 out of 4 possible calibers.  I don't have any of the others on your list, but suggest the Browning Hi-Power if you want a 9 - SAS used it for many years as did Seals. An excellent and reliable pistol.

Thank you Rip. I shot a friend of mine’s Sig P228 and fell in love with it. He later got a P229 and that one was nice as well. Very accurate with whatever rounds we were shooting that day. 
 

I should have mentioned above: I have zero interest in the Hi-Power or the CZ 75. 

[Rip Snorter]

Just now, Pat Riot said:

Thank you Rip. I shot a friend of mine’s Sig P228 and fell in love with it. He later got a P229 and that one was nice as well. Very accurate with whatever rounds we were shooting that day. 
 

I should have mentioned above: I have zero interest in the Hi-Power or the CZ 75. 

In re: Hi power your loss.  I feel the same about the Beretta and Springfield clones.

[Dantankerous]

Look at the Beretta 92s offered by Langdon Tactical. Ernest Langdon is a Marine vet and world class shooter who knows the Beretta platform incredibly well.

[Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485]

I only have one small thing to add. I've tried to shoot a Beretta 92, with my small hands I can't reach the safety on the slide. The Taurus 92 has the safety on the frame, much easier the reach.

[Subdeacon Joe]

My wife loved her 92FS even though she has smallish hands.  I also liked it.  Reliable,  eats a variety of ammo without issues, easy to maintain.   

 

Sig it's hard to go wrong with.   I've shot a Sig 9mm, but that was 20 years ago,  I don't recall the model,  but it was  pleasant to shoot. Only put 40 rounds through it,  so not much of a test. 

 

But,  same as always,  what feels best in your hands?  If it doesn't feel right nothing else matters much.  

 

 

[Stump Water]

I put many, many rounds through a friends 92FS as well as a Taurus 92C that I once owned.  Didn't really care for either because fat grip.  I never saw either one fail to feed/fire.  

 

The only Sig I have ever shot is Camille's 1911 9mm.  It's a dream.  It's a full-size 1911.

 

The only experience I have with SA is a friends Mil-Spec 1911 .45.  He spent more money tricking it out than he paid for it, but when it was all done it didn't shoot any better.

Edited March 9 by Stump Water

[Chantry]

What's the intended use, just plinking or possible CCW/Home Defense?

 

I liked the Beretta, it's accurate and reliable, but it's a big gun and the safety is hard to reach with smaller hands.  I had the Taurus because Iiked the manual safety was in the same spot as a 1911.  The Beretta is a much better gun than the Taurus.

I think both Sigs are good pistols, not overly fond of the DA/SA trigger.

I have a Springfield Armory in .45 ACP, good gun.

 

None of the guns are bad choices.

Edited March 9 by Chantry

[Joe Cross, SASS #13848 L]

Those would all be fine picks; however, I have no experience with those you listed, but I do own 3 Ruger SR1911s in 9mm: government model (5"), commander (4.25"), and officer model (3.5"). I like them all, but the commander style is my absolute favorite in 1911s.

 

In Springfield Armory, I like the 1911 AOS Operator 4.25". That'll be my next one whenever...  I also like the SA-35.  

[JD Lud]

I have a 226 tac ops and have had a few 1911s in 9mm.

 

the problem in my opinion is as much as I love the 1911…in 9mm there are so many that provide much more magazine capacity and positive trade offs.  1911 9s have a great trigger, shoot flat, no recoil but so do many other non plastic 9mm.

 

CZ shadow 2 compact for example, or even a Dan Wesson DWX….much more capacity plus if you want a red dot they are optics ready.  Maybe a Springfield prodigy model as they have a compact now.

 

Again depends what you want it for, but if i want a 1911 for defense im taking my TRP in 45….but im likely taking my hellcat pro for carry with 15 capacity mags and barely bigger than the Glock 43.  

 

 

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

The only one I can address is the Beretta. Had one for many years and love it. Shoots like a house afire and I don't think it's ever jammed. Very accurate. My wife loves it. Long ago we used to shoot at our farm and she would bullseye bowling pins, and she's not a shooter. I've used it to qualify for my CHL as has she. I've shot the qualifier like 3 times, first two dropped one shot with my .45 1911 (my fault) the only time I shot it clean was with the Beretta. Like I said, my wife is not really a shooter but when she shot the qualifier with the Beretta I think she scored 236 out of 250.

 

It is a fat boy, but I have little bitty woman hands and can even reach the safety, never had an issue. Drawbacks (at least with mine) is it has crappy LITTLE 3 dot sights, and it's a LARGE pistol, not real suitable for a small man like me to carry concealed.

My 2 cents,

JHC

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Chantry said:

What's the intended use, just plinking or possible CCW/Home Defense?

Range, carry, SD & HD. Pretty much all around use. 
 

2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Sig it's hard to go wrong with.   I've shot a Sig 9mm, but that was 20 years ago,  I don't recall the model,  but it was  pleasant to shoot. Only put 40 rounds through it,  so not much of a test. 

 

But,  same as always,  what feels best in your hands?  If it doesn't feel right nothing else matters much.  

I shot my friend’s Sig, but I forgot to mention I met a young lady that had a selection of 8 Sigs with her at the range one day. She had the coolest pistol range box I had ever seen. Anyway, she let me shoot her P226 and one other that I think was a P229. 
They pointed and hit naturally for me. And I liked them, a lot!
Same with another friend’s Taurus copy of the Beretta 92, but I cannot recall its model number nor can I remember where the safety was. That was 30 years ago. 
 

3 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

In re: Hi power your loss.

My old range in Huntington Beach, CA rented guns. They had Hi-Powers and CZ 75s for rent, as well as many others (except Sigs).

I could not shoot the Hi-Powers accurately and the hammer bite truly pizzed me off. The CZs were awkward to me. 
That was a few years ago. I understand that newer CZs are configured a bit differently. 
Unfortunately I do not have a range within 80 miles that rents any of the guns I am interested in. 

————————————————-

 

The main reason I am asking about these guns is I have soured a bit on my Glocks. I literally haven’t shot them in over a year. Mostly because I have been concentrating on my rifles and revolvers. 
I took my Glocks to the range a couple of weeks ago and ALL my hits were low and left. 
I know why and it ticked me off. My trigger finger isn’t getting enough purchase. 
I stripped the rubber grips off them, buzzed the finger groove humps off and installed traction grip to the sides and front of the grip. 
I have better trigger finger control but it just irks me that I worked so hard to become accurate with them and a year of non-use is like shooting non dominant hand using your weak eye. 
This brought up a memory. 
I had a Colt 1991A1. A very accurate 1911 in my hands. Anyway, in 2004 I gave it to my daughter. 
When I moved back to CA my son-in-law and I hit the range. He has adopted my old 1991A1. He let me put a few mags of ammo through it. All hits were around the bullseye. 
When we visited last June we hit the range again. I shot the 1991A1 again and 14 rounds put a nice hurtin’ on the black ring around the X ring. 
So 15 years then 5 years and I shot ghat gun like I shot it every week. 
With my Glocks that isn’t the case it seems. 
 

I know that my body and in particular my hands and wrists have changed due to injuries and surgeries, but a 1 year haiatus should not result in targets that look like sh**!
 

I am basically looking to replace my Glocks if I cannot shoot them any better at the range tomorrow. 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

I have a 1911 Kimber in 9mm.  Nice shooting pistol.  Also have a Sig 320, but I don't like the straight trigger.  On reflection a 226 would have been better.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

My wife's qualifier target for her Texas CHL. I don't recall exactly how they score it for qualification. At least the 9-10-x is 10 points. Maybe the 8 but I think it is less. One reason I keep the Beretta in the safe.

JHC

Edited March 9 by Capt. James H. Callahan

[Yul Lose]

I’ve had a  Sig P229 in .357 Sig for about 25 years. Early on it was my concealed carry piece for visiting my remote mountaintop communications sites. Concealing it was an issue because it’s not that small so I used a concealed carry waist pouch to carry it in. Now it’s pretty much a home defense piece because I use a smaller 9mm for concealed carry now. I do like the larger grip of the P229 and extra available magazine capacity.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

$#% pic don't wanna work.

Edited March 9 by Capt. James H. Callahan

[Pat Riot]

Another gun I may want to consider for better concealability is the Sig Sauer P365 series of guns. 
That is for later consideration. 

[Rip Snorter]

I have and have had quite a few 9mm - HiPower and 229 stuck, though I keep the SIG in 357.  EDC is a 45 commander and has been for decades.  IMHO, you might consider handling a variety of pistols with the current condition of your hands even if you can't shoot them.  From what you have recounted, what was no longer is.  Never owned a Glock.  Had the opportunity to fire one at a Shooters Field Day when they first came out - dislike from first exposure.  Good luck in your quest.

Edited March 9 by Rip Snorter
Typo

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

I will take the heat , I HATE SIGS 

I can hit with em , but they just do NOT lay in my hands right 

92s are a tad fat for my tastes 

as to the 1911 platform , I like arched back straps 

 

 CB 

[Pat Riot]

19 minutes ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

I will take the heat , I HATE SIGS 

I can hit with em , but they just do NOT lay in my hands right 

92s are a tad fat for my tastes 

as to the 1911 platform , I like arched back straps 

 

 CB 

No heat involved here. 
 

Fitting my hands is an issue as well. If a gun doesn’t fit right it does one no good. 
 

1 hour ago, Rip Snorter said:

I have and have had quite a few 9mm - HiPower and 229 stuck, though I keep the SIG in 357.  EDC is a 45 commander and has been for decades.  IMHO, you might consider handling a variety of pistols with the current condition of your hands even if you can't shoot them.  From what you have recounted, what was no longer is.  Never owned a Glock.  Had the opportunity to fire one at a Shooters Field Day when they first came out - dislike from first exposure.  Good luck in your quest.

Here’s something that’s funny, at least to me. 
A few years ago I tried shooting a friend’s round butt Smith & Wesson with a Hogue Monogrip on it. I shot it okay but the grip just didn’t fit me right. 
I have been noticing the square butt grips on my DA revolvers kind of bother me where the rear bottom of the grip hits my hand - see circle in photo of my hand. 

 

When I was putting my new to me model 66 together I decided to try the Hogue Monogrip because it is rounded at the butt. The 66-5 has a round butt frame. 
Lo and behold I like the way it feels and I shoot well with it. 

 

I guess my hands have changed over the past few years. 
 

You’re right. I gotta put my hands on some guns to see what works. Starting with the ones on my list. 

[Rip Snorter]

As I understand it thin or not, we lose fat padding on hands and feet as we age.  I have some experiences similar to yours.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

When did SA bring 1911 production back to the USA? For years, it has been in Brazil by Imbel.

[Pat Riot]

8 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

When did SA bring 1911 production back to the USA? For years, it has been in Brazil by Imbel.

Scroll down to Springfield Armory:

https://backfire.tv/list-of-gun-manufacturers-and-if-they-are-made-in-the-usa/

[Boggus Deal #64218]

They “say” their SA-35 is made in the US, but it happens to have dovetails that match Tisas dovetails. And having made both 1911s and Hi Powers, I find it hard to believe. I would guess they’re still made overseas and finished here. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

This is a "Just for askin'" , but why don't you like a Hi Power of CZ75? I've got a FEG, (Hungarian) Hi Power that's pretty good. 

Some years back, I decided for absolutely no good reason that I needed a "wonder 9". That should tell you how long ago THAT was. The 9mm wasn't THE cartridge yet, and Micro 9s hadn't even been invented. I handled every 9mm that my favorite LGS had in stock, and in doing so, decided that the Hi Power fitted me best. As I didn't have as much money as a "real" Hi Power cost, I wound up with the FEG. It does everything I ask it to, though the front sight is too short, and the rear dovetail is an oddball size so that nothing in my parts box fit it. 

If I were to get one today, I'd get one of the SA's or a Tisas's, and I think that Armscorps, (Rock Island) makes one too.  but since it's just a plinker, I doubt if I'll bother unless I manage to come into Money somehow. 

 

[Pat Riot]

19 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

This is a "Just for askin'" , but why don't you like a Hi Power of CZ75?

I can still see the scar from the hammer bite from the Hi-Power I rented. It didn’t fit me. 
The two CZs I tried out I didn’t care for the controls. I’m not sure if it’s the way my hands are built or what, but having to completely change my grip to release the slide or drop the mag didn’t appeal to me. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

7 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

I can still see the scar from the hammer bite from the Hi-Power I rented. It didn’t fit me. 

G.I. style 1911s get me that way too. My EDC has a Commander style hammer so it doesn't.  Most new Hi Power type pistols have a Commander style hammer too. 

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

G.I. style 1911s get me that way too. My EDC has a Commander style hammer so it doesn't.  Most new Hi Power type pistols have a Commander style hammer too. 

I was just looking at the Springfield Armory SA-35 copy of the Hi-Power. It looks like the hammer wouldn’t bite with the hammer it has. 
 

I think with the changes in my hands and grip I shouldn’t discount options that didn’t work for me before. 

My model 66 with the Hogue Monogrip is proof of that. 

[Texas Lizard]

Sigs are very nice....Own about 30 of them....

 

Correction...Only have 25....Double checked my count.....Something new here in this state...When you DROS a firearm....They have to ask if you know where all your guns are at....

 

Texas Lizard

Edited March 11 by Texas Lizard

[Rip Snorter]

Particularly the German ones!

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

6 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

They pointed and hit naturally for me.

That, plus Sig’s quality, and I’d say you have your answer. 

[watab kid]

i have no experience with the springfields , you cant go wrong with a sig ,  i can recommend any of those sigs [i have all of those as well as some others] , i have the berretta but we dont get along as well , i have a P1935 hi power that i love as well as two WWII era inglis versions of that , they all work great for me , i have a kimber 1911 in 9mm thats a nice pistol but i prefer my 45s in that , 

 

i ordered a sig P210 , i should have it this week , its spendy but these are extremely accurate pistols , i shot one last fall at long distance [over 50 feet] on 6" plates - never missed , it was a friends - he cut his buisness card in half edgewise with that same gun 

[John Kloehr]

Beretta vs 1911 is a separate discussion as it a completely different operating system.

 

As to the Sig not being a "true" 1911, I set that aside.

 

I have a Beretta (I think 92FS, same thing for discussion purposes: but do not carry it). I sometimes use it for competition in some sports, it is fun and a good gun. I carry a 1911. Springfield EMP in 9mm is my best current choice for reasons. But the arguments about the Sig not being a "true" 1911 do not bother me at all.

 

And I am still considering getting some steel-framed Sig in the 2XX series. Sigs just run and run well.

 

On edit:  The firearm operating system does matter. Then the gun needs to fit the shooter's hands. And it needs to run well.

Edited March 10 by John Kloehr

[Doc Shapiro]

We recently bought a couple of 9mm autoloaders.  I got a Springfield Ronin (EMP model for carry).  Wife bought a Sig 239 Rose.  Both feel like solid guns.