Jedediah Westwood Posted March 5 Posted March 5 I recently acquired an 1851 Colt Navy revolver (might be a clone but hard to tell for the lack of markings). I’m working on getting caps for the revolver but I am curious on any tips y’all can give me (ie. powder loads, best type of powder, best way to clean, best lubricants for black powder vs smokeless). I have somewhat of an idea on what I’m doing based on a few YouTube videos I’ve seen but wanted to see what the masses have to say. I’ll throw up some pics of the new gun later so y’all can critique and drool to your hearts content.
JackSlade Posted March 5 Posted March 5 Hey, good to hear from ya! I've missed sharing movie quotes at the last few shoots I was at. The only advice I can give is regarding lube application and cleaning. Get some warm water, put a little bit of dish soap in, not enough to make a bunch of suds, just enough to make the water slightly slippery. You take your gun apart as soon as you get home and all the fouling will wipe RIGHT off. once it's all squeaky clean you just apply a light amount of oil to everything (black powder guns LOVE ballistol. And it's great for getting tough carbon off ARs too) As for the lube, you might want to get something softer than SPG for the cylinder chambers. Once you've loaded your pistol, you can take more lube and basically fill the front of each chamber with lube and you can shoot for a LOT longer with it before needing to clean it. If you don't wanna go through that much lube, then you can always use conical bullets with large lube grooves instead of round balls.
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 5 Posted March 5 There are lots of little things that Cap Guns need to be ready to play CAS. A number of those things depend on the manufacturer. first up, lose the word "Clone." Neither Uberti nor Pietta make "clones." They make replicas. You can start with the nipples. Replace them with SlixShot for best ignition. Depending, you may wish to convert to Coil Spring and Plunger for the hand. Clean up and polish the Hammer face and insure the hammer isn't dragging in its raceway. Change out the Main Spring for an After-Market main spring. I like the item from VTI and or the "Lee's gunsmithing" Gunfighter spring set (Brownells). If it's a Pietta, insure the Bolt actually fits the Cylinder slots. Don't mess with the Barrel to Cylinder Gap. Lubricate with NON Petroleum oil. for grease I like Mobil 1 Synthetic, a tube is a lifetime supply. For general oiling I like Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil. A quart will last years. For general cleaning and keeping the gun running I recommend PAM. PAM is an acronym for Hydrogen Peroxide, Denatured Alcohol, and Murphy Oil Soap, mixed in equal parts. I keep a small spritz bottle on my Kart. HAVE FUN PS: I don't shoot Black Powder. I highly recommend APP (American Pioneer Powder). Cleans up right well, makes plenty of smoke, is easy to get. I use 3F for Cap Guns and Suppositories, and 2F for Shotgun. 3F will also meter nicely thru most Powder Measures.
Sedalia Dave Posted March 5 Posted March 5 In no particular order Avoid Pyrodex. Clean with hot soapy water. Lube oil is Ballistol. Grease the arbor with Mobil 1 red full synthetic grease. Avoid Pyrodex. Install Slix, Treso, or Ampco nipples. Use anti-seize on the nipple threads. (I use Permatex Copper Anti-Seize)) Don't over-tighten the nipples. Avoid Pyrodex. Tune per the instructions published by Mr. Pettifogger. I use Real BP, APP, or Triple 7 depending on how the mood strikes me. A can of compressed Air (Dust Off) with the little red tube is great for ensuring nipples and chambers are clear and dry. Don't use undersized or poorly cast ammo. It leads to chain fires. Keep in mind that there are a thousand ways to load and clean C&B revolvers. Find the way that works for you. How I do it would give some people epileptic fits. Some could care less and possibly 1 or 2 would be impressed Once you settle on a loading method STICK TO IT. This will prevent surprises. With just a little practice you can recharge 2 pistols in the time it takes the next 3 shooters to shoot a stage. C&B revolvers can be shot in a downpour. I've done it and have the video proof. @Griff was on my posse that day and neither of us had a fail to fire because of heavy rain. MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL. DO NOT TRUST WHAT YOU SEE ON YOUTUBE. There are as many wrong ways to do things as there are right ways. PS Avoid Pyrodex. PPS Have Fun. Train wrecks are part of shooting C&B revolvers, learn to laugh at yourself when everything goes to heck in a handbasket.
Eyesa Horg Posted March 5 Posted March 5 A Bore Butter lubed wad between powder and ball will give plenty of lube and not make a mess all over ya. Also will prevent chain fires. Just my experience! I also use a wad in my muzzleloader and have gone about 50 shots without any loading issues and get a nice lube star at the muzzle. I make my own wads from hard felt and put a hundred or so in a baggie,add bore butter, 20 seconds at a time in the microwave, squish around and repeat until wads are saturated but not dripping per se. I just like a little more lube than store bought wads.
Jedediah Westwood Posted March 5 Author Posted March 5 19 minutes ago, JackSlade said: Hey, good to hear from ya! I've missed sharing movie quotes at the last few shoots I was at. The only advice I can give is regarding lube application and cleaning. Get some warm water, put a little bit of dish soap in, not enough to make a bunch of suds, just enough to make the water slightly slippery. You take your gun apart as soon as you get home and all the fouling will wipe RIGHT off. once it's all squeaky clean you just apply a light amount of oil to everything (black powder guns LOVE ballistol. And it's great for getting tough carbon off ARs too) As for the lube, you might want to get something softer than SPG for the cylinder chambers. Once you've loaded your pistol, you can take more lube and basically fill the front of each chamber with lube and you can shoot for a LOT longer with it before needing to clean it. If you don't wanna go through that much lube, then you can always use conical bullets with large lube grooves instead of round balls. Yeah, I’ve been a little busy. I ended up doing a complete career change but I will hopefully be able to get to next months match or the following.
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted March 5 Posted March 5 Powder: real black powder for major matches. It ignites the easiest. Any sub you like except Pyrodex for local matches and practice. 15-grains by volume will meet the SASS smoke standard though you will need a filler over the powder. Caps: Remington #10s Gun Oil: Ballistol, spray cooking oil Grease over the balls: vegetable shortening, rancid is OK. Syringe for application Cleaning: hot, soapy water. All-purpose household cleaner with vinegar if that is unavailable Nipples: Slix or Tesco, install with anti-seize, buy a ratcheting nipple wrench YouTube Videos: Duelist1954 channel Round Balls: only pure lead Learn to load it quickly and reliably before taking it to a match. I find a loading stand helpful.
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 5 Posted March 5 A BIG PLUS ONE for Sadilia Dave. Especially "STAY AWAY FROM PYRODX!!" PYRODEX IS A RUSTING AGENT THAT HAPPENS TO BURN PLUS: Don't trust anything you see on the internet. Bunch of folks who don't really now anything but learned to post it on the Net and You Tube. APP is just fine for ANY match. Major or Small and requires NO LUBES. PS: Dualist1954 (Mike Belleview) has really good stuff
JackSlade Posted March 5 Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: PLUS: Don't trust *anything* you see on the internet. Noted. I'm exclusively using pyrodex now. 😂
ORNERY OAF Posted March 5 Posted March 5 Doesn't capt Baylor make a good black powder tutorial??? Or ami remembering that wrong
Burn Through Posted March 6 Posted March 6 in a 44 pietta I use 20 grains of black 2 or 3f and a felt lube wade over powder from circle fly and a 454 ball cuts a nice ring and remington 10 caps are still the king . and i use 1/3 rubbing alcohol and 1/3 murphy's oil soap and 1/3 hydrogen peroxide to clean and chase that with HOT water . Then I lube with lucas red gun oil
Big Gus, SASS# 66666 Posted March 6 Posted March 6 A quick question. How far down do you disassemble the pistol. All the bits and gubbins or cylinder and grips? thanks
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 6 Posted March 6 3 hours ago, ORNERY OAF said: Doesn't capt Baylor make a good black powder tutorial??? Or ami remembering that wrong "Frontiersman for Dummies" on Captain Baylor's Ranger Camp website. But I think he let that go, now you have to buy his book. And I would recommend it to the OP, even if he is a little too prejudiced towards Rugers. edit: some of that stuff may be on Capt Baylor's facebook page, I dunno.
Griff Posted March 6 Posted March 6 Plus one to Sedalia Dave. Slix Shot nipples, Remington #10 caps, a Ruger coil spring & plunger to activate the hand. A general deburring and spring replacement with quality aftermarket springs will make life better. I shoot 1851 Navies, .36 caliber round balls with between 13 & 15 grains of Goex 3F, a lubed "wonder wad", and have no problems making smoke and knocking over the occasional KD. What SD failed to mention, is that in the rain... not only should you protect your charged guns, but also your caps... On my last stage at my last EOT (2021), I failed to keep my capper outta the elements... I maintained a clean match... but at a horrendous cost of time! Good thing my capper holds 100+ caps, I was able to find 10 that fired! Too bad they were mixed in with about 30 that failed to! Tight fitting balls will seal the front of the chamber... as long as you don't make a mess with the powder over the front of the cylinder. I quit greasing the front of my chambers over 35 years ago... Have never missed the mess that makes. IMO, light charges make light cleanup. I habitually shoot a 6 stage match without the need to clean, wipe or otherwise fondle my guns besides charging them for the next stage. Warm water cleans, hot water cleans better, any protectant for storage will work. I use Lucas' Red n Sticky synthetic grease on the arbor, and stuff the innards around the bolt, trigger & lockworks full of it also. A dab on the threads of yer nipples will keep them from seizing in the cylinders. No need to coat them full, just like Brylcreem, a "lil' dab'll do ya!" Colorado Coffinmaker is correct... there's a gazillion ways to skin this cat... if you find one that works for ya... stick with it. Ain't none of us that were around back in the "day"... so who's to tell who what's right or wrong?
Dapper Dave Posted March 7 Posted March 7 Hey, @Sedalia Dave what do you think of using Pyrodex? 😁 When it comes to black powder, what I use is the real deal, currently either Olde Eynsford 3F, or home-made black powder, which nicely takes up room in a case due to its lower power factor. The Holy Black is best.
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted March 7 Posted March 7 Stay away from Pyrodex, if you want to use a BP sub use APP.
Griff Posted March 7 Posted March 7 I'm glad someone picked up on that. Shows there's at least a modicum of intelligence here abouts!
Griff Posted March 7 Posted March 7 On 3/5/2025 at 7:31 PM, Big Gus, SASS# 66666 said: A quick question. How far down do you disassemble the pistol. All the bits and gubbins or cylinder and grips? thanks I generally just separate the frame from the barrel and remove nipples from the cylinder. Remove the rammer and run hot water thru each chamber & barrel, followed by dry patches then a wet patch with preservative. The frame gets cleaned with a wire brush (bronze) and Ballistol to remove any carbon deposits on recoil shield. If I'm not going to be shooting that particular firearm for longer than a month, I'll strip it completely removing any and all grease. Reassemble with new grease and put away in safe. I don't install nipples until the night before or day of a match.
Sedalia Dave Posted March 8 Posted March 8 5 hours ago, Griff said: I generally just separate the frame from the barrel and remove nipples from the cylinder. Remove the rammer and run hot water thru each chamber & barrel, followed by dry patches then a wet patch with preservative. The frame gets cleaned with a wire brush (bronze) and Ballistol to remove any carbon deposits on recoil shield. If I'm not going to be shooting that particular firearm for longer than a month, I'll strip it completely removing any and all grease. Reassemble with new grease and put away in safe. I don't install nipples until the night before or day of a match. Pretty close to what I do.
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 9 Posted March 9 German Jim Ummm, Yes. DON'T USE PYRODEX. That is confirmed.
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 9 Posted March 9 Years ago Pyrodex was often given out as shooter's prizes at larger matches, and some folks would give theirs to me. I used it in the shotgun, since that was so easy to clean.
Uriah, SASS # 53822 Posted March 9 Posted March 9 2 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: I used it in the shotgun, since that was so easy to clean. Abilene, A cartridge shotgun? About 40 years ago, I bought some Pyrodex for my muzzleloader. It was new to the marketplace. Within 10 shots I could detect a hangfire. The next shot, ANYONE could see, I had a hangfire. Even with a hot shot nipple. I’m sure Pyrodex improved their products. But, that is the last time for me. Uriah
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 9 Posted March 9 Just now, Uriah, SASS # 53822 said: Abilene, A cartridge shotgun?... YES! Easy to clean and inspect.
Eyesa Horg Posted March 9 Posted March 9 I shoot muzzleloader with a neighbor who loves Pyrodex! However, he's the only one of us that constantly has FTF on a percussion gun! Even though we've all told him to use real BP!! He usually gets a few shots off and then he's picking nipples and changing them as well. One of his guns rarely fires even the first time now. I think the drum is probably full of rust. To each their own I guess.
Sedalia Dave Posted March 10 Posted March 10 Pyrodex is harder to ignite than real BP. 2F Goex has an ignition temp of about 500 F Ignition temp of APP is about 670 F Ignition temp of Pyrodex is about 740 F Depending on the granulation, Goex lists a total of 8 classes of Black Powder, ignition temp ranges from 392 F to 867 F.
Chancy Shot, SASS #67163 Posted March 10 Posted March 10 In the past, I have taken the grips off, the barrel and cylinder off and used the dishwasher. Care must be taken to get the parts out and lubed up immediately. Gets those pistols really clean. An additional warning -- Do NOT let your wife catch you. Don't ask me how I know. Chancy
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted March 10 Posted March 10 48 minutes ago, Chancy Shot, SASS #67163 said: In the past, I have taken the grips off, the barrel and cylinder off and used the dishwasher. Care must be taken to get the parts out and lubed up immediately. Gets those pistols really clean. An additional warning -- Do NOT let your wife catch you. Don't ask me how I know. Chancy Are you aware that metallic lead is a toxic material? Back when I was working in health and safety in a laboratory I would have issued a stop work order and tagged the dishwasher for non-kitchen cleaning and had it removed from the kitchen. If reported to the government they might have fined my employer. 💀
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 A new trick I recently learned is to spray my cap guns with Simple Green at the end of the match. I take out the cylinders and spray into each chamber and down the barrel too. It is truly amazing to watch the residue just flow off of the guns. Then I spray again with Moose Milk, wipe dry, blow off all excess, and wipe dry again. I was very doubtful when told about this method, and how clean the guns would be from simply spraying them down with Simple Green, but while really unbelievable IT IS TRUE!
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 Enjoy your percussion firearms. Don't be afraid to experiment with anything related to black powder shooting. Welcome to the ranks of eccentric cowboys!!
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