Uberti 1873 started jamming, help!

[R. R. Ranger]

Have a uberti 73 in 38/357 that has run flawlessly for years. Today at our match it jammed with bullet in bottom of carrier and about 1/8 “ + of the next round in magazine also trying to enter. Locked the gun up. Disassembled tonight and cleaned. Checked cycling with dummy rounds and does the same thing. Has a PGW super short stroke and aluminum carrier. Has been in gun for years with no issues. Rounds loaded to same OAL of 1.46. First bullet in carrier seems to drop below/under bolt. Bottom of carrier is flush with bottom of receiver . I’ve heard of this before but can’t remember the fix. Help would be much appreciated.

RRR

[Sedalia Dave]

Check for a bent or broken loading gate tab.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Check Cartridge Overall Length  of the round in the carrier.  If the carrier holds a proper length round, it should repel the following round until the carrier block rises.  

To clear the jamb, use a tool to push the second round back into the magazine tube far enough to free the carrier to allow it to rise, then lever the action to chamber (fire) and extract the round normally. 

[Griff]

18 hours ago, R. R. Ranger said:

Have a uberti 73 in 38/357 that has run flawlessly for years. Today at our match it jammed with bullet in bottom of carrier and about 1/8 “ + of the next round in magazine also trying to enter. Locked the gun up. Disassembled tonight and cleaned. Checked cycling with dummy rounds and does the same thing. Has a PGW super short stroke and aluminum carrier. Has been in gun for years with no issues. Rounds loaded to same OAL of 1.46. First bullet in carrier seems to drop below/under bolt. Bottom of carrier is flush with bottom of receiver . I’ve heard of this before but can’t remember the fix. Help would be much appreciated.

RRR

What do you mean by, "First bullet in carrier seems to drop below/under bolt."?  With only an eighth inch of a second cartridge entering the carrier mortise your carrier should be able to push that back into the magazine.  @ ¼" or more that might become problematic.  If your loading gate tab is intact and not bent, check for obstruction in magazine tube.  

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Two rounds on the carrier at same time which locks the action  - that's due to too short Over All Length of cartridge.  Perhaps a loose crimp on that second cartridge allowed it to collapse to a shorter length than you thought you were seating to.  Perhaps you are right at the cartridge length limit where the carrier block cartridge return ramp does not catch the second cartridge to force it back up into the mag tube.  With a couple of dummies loaded to your length, look down in the carrier after getting those into the magazine.   If the RIM of the second (more forward) round is sitting on the angled ramp at the front of the carrier, your length is probably pretty good.  But if rim is able to catch the FLAT (horizontal) surface of the channel in the carrier, you have too short a length of cartridges.   If you have never had the carrier block worked on to enable feeding shorter cartridges, some of the factory blocks will catch a round that is only 1.460" long.  It does vary between guns by +/- 0.020" or so.

 

Your math does not work for Uberti 73's made this century. The carrier block is almost 1.600" long.   Your first cartridge is 1.460" long.  That should mean about 1.600-1.460 - or 0.540" of the second cartridge can be out into the carrier channel.     Not just 1/8 inch (0.125").  Fractions of an inch matter with OAL.

 

good luck, GJ

[El Mulo Vaquero, SASS #55942]

Check the ramp on the carrier, an aluminum carrier can develop a groove/ding/gouge where it pushes the cartridge back in the tube and lock up the carrier.

[R. R. Ranger]

1/8 “ was a guess last night, was tired and frustrated. Aluminum carrier face (wedge that pushes bullet back into mag) does have a groove worn through the anodized finish, ramp is pretty worn. Also, at the rear of carrier there is a divot worn where the rim would sit. And the bullet ends up sort of cockeyed with the rim end sort of jammed into the right rear corner (looking into ejection port) with the nose of the bullet pointed to left side. I think it may have come out of time because if carrier freed and raised slowly, the bolt bottom tab is now hitting the rim of upcoming bullet. 
RRR

[Shawnee Hills]

It appears that you only have 0.140" of the next cartridge exposed to the carrier ramp so that shouldn't be a problem.  However, it sounds like it's time to replace the carrier and check the timing.  The bolt tab should never touch the rim of the cartridge as it rises in the carrier.  Check this when holding the rifle at a 45 degree angle, muzzle up.

[R. R. Ranger]

Ordered a new brass carrier today, switching back to brass. Can’t find the old one.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

A cocked round on the carrier (fails to lay straight) is almost certainly due to the frame not having a good bevel on the "loading gate mortise".   We've described this about 50 times in the last 10 years.  It comes from Uberti not finishing the frame properly inside the loading gate area to always guide the round into the center of the carrier's channel..

 

Here's how to fix the loading gate mortise so rounds do not cock to an angle as they lay in the carrier channel - which causes the action to lock up as you try to cycle the round up to the chamber! 

 

Tech info page at Pioneer Gunworks

 

Once you get there, open the item named: Frame Modification for 1866/73 (Round Alignment Fix)

 

That will almost certainly fix the cocked round jam!  good luck, GJ

[Shawnee Hills]

1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

A cocked round on the carrier (fails to lay straight) is almost certainly due to the frame not having a good bevel on the "loading gate mortise".   We've described this about 50 times in the last 10 years.  It comes from Uberti not finishing the frame properly inside the loading gate area to always guide the round into the center of the carrier's channel..

How would this suddenly become a problem in a rifle that, in the OP’s words, “has run flawlessly for years”.

 

Also, what is “sad” about my posted advice?  Cartridge OAL doesn’t seem to be an issue and timing is definitely off if the rim is hitting the bolt tab.

 

Perhaps it would help if the OP would post a few pictures of the jammed action. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

5 hours ago, Shawnee Hills said:

It appears that you only have 0.140" of the next cartridge exposed

The sad emoji - That was because there was another error in calculating the length of second cartridge sticking out on the carrier to be returned by the cartridge return ramp.

 

As to how it becomes a problem suddenly - perhaps the frame has gotten really fouled or developed a burr?  But every time folks say they get a jam and the cartridge is siting cocked in the action and I have followed the progression of solving the mystery, it's due to the loading gate mortise not letting the rim center up in the channel.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[R. R. Ranger]

This is what I’m referring to:

 

 

[R. R. Ranger]

Sorry for such large pics. Don’t know how to resize. Here is picture of inside receiver for fix Garrison Joe referred to. Bright worn spot that I guess rim has been catching on.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

IF that is a divot  or other flaw above the "window" (known as the mortise), that really needs to be smoothed out.  Then bevel the lower edge of the frame at the top of the window so that is has one continuous bevel, at about 30 degrees to the frame face.  I don't like to have hardly any 90 degree "edge" at the top of the window.  Not a knife edge, though, leave just a little 90 degree flat for strength.  The orange color.

 

Then I also bevel the right side (looking at your picture here) all the way down (toward bottom of frame) as far as my file or stone will get, giving an easy path for the rim of the cartridge to slip over to being straight underneath the firing pin in the bolt.  The blue color.

 

Yeah, that is one of the uglier frame beveling jobs I've seen. 

 

good luck, GJ

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

To resize a picture, open it in a photo editing tool.   I love Hypersnap (on my Windows box) since it will capture screen shots as well as work on almost any type of photo.  But most simple photo editing software lets you scale and then draw or type text on the photo to explain things (as was done above).

 

Find the resize or scale tool.   If your photos are like what you posted, you have about 3000 x 4000 pixels coming out of camera.   Set the scale to size the photo to 20% of original size and apply it to photo.  That is what I did with your excellent image, and now it's 600 x 600 pixels or so.   (I cropped some off the top to make it focused on the mortise)  Finished photo is about 4% of the original pixel size, so it flies through the 'net 25 times faster.

 

good luck, GJ

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

From the scratched up carrier, you have shot SOME rounds that were too short for the "second" round to be returned to the magazine.   That's the scratches on the bottom of the horizontal channel in the carrier. 

 

And the scratches on the return ramp show that mostly the return ramp is doing it's job.   But, that is a lot of wear on the ramp.  It could very easily be filed and polished out if you wanted to save the carrier.  I have changed the angle of the ramp to accommodate short-ish rounds before, and that modification would take all your scratches out.  There is some extra metal there, but you have to watch that you do not cut into the lifter arm cavity!  

 

good luck, GJ

[R. R. Ranger]

Thanks for all the ideas Joe. I plan on polishing out the roughness and lengthen the ramp as you described. A lot of the bullets run were 105’s and hard to seat those much longer. Going  to try 125’s or 158’s to get longer nose . Maybe try 357 cases.  Also going to retime .  Have tried to contact PGW but guess they are all at EOT.  I never paid attention to the inside of receiver until you pointed out how rough in the photos. Also figuring out best way to clean up (blue) area you marked. Getting to that area will be interesting it seems.

 

 

[Shawnee Hills]

I’m loading Scarlett’s 105s to an OAL of 1.500” with no problem and they run very smoothly; especially since the aluminum carriers were replaced with lightened brass.  You may be able to get to that length with the bullet you have but the lube grove might interfere.  I switched to the above bullet for that reason. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

5 hours ago, R. R. Ranger said:

Also figuring out best way to clean up (blue) area you marked. Getting to that area will be interesting it seems.

 I am usually able to get into that with a motor-driven die grinder (like a Foredom, but mine is a Harbor Freight copy).  And a conical grinding bit.   Go VERY carefully. 

 

good luck, GJ

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I've done a few, here's one.  Didn't need to remove a bunch of metal.  It is more towards the loading gate side where it catches.  Used some small hand files, breaking a couple, and it took a long time.

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

THAT ^ factory section of bevel is typical of what the guns look like recently.  But, as said, sometimes the bevel does not go out to the right side of the frame enough.  GJ

[R. R. Ranger]

Just an update. I have reworked the bevel and re-timed for the brass carrier. It cycles great, even with my short dummy rounds. Thanks for all the input and guidance from all. Nothing like Cowpokes to lend a hand.