Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Buying a new gun is officially a PITA. And not the kind ya stuff with yummy stuff. At least in the Golden Tarnished, Peeling, Brass-Plated State. Wanted to buy a shotgun; about the only place locally to get it was Sportsman's Warehouse. I know, I know... "patronize the LGS instead of the big-box stores!" Well, LGS's are right scarce in these parts. So, SW it was. Went in to the store; "ya gotta order it online. We'll let you know when it comes it." So I did last week; got an email - it arrived yesterday. Drove to the store in Fresno this morning ~ was waiting at the door twenty minutes before it opened. Wanted to get in and out. Okay... but when you go to the gun counter, you can't just talk to someone. Now you have to walk up to a plackard and scan a "QR Code" with your cell phone. This will open an internet link, and you have to select your reason for being there (begin process for the ten-day 'cooling-off period' or pick up a firearm at the end of the 'cooling-off period'). Then you enter your name and phone number. And wait. Anywhere from a half hour to three hours. Unless you're first in line... like I was. And be prepared to present your drivers license and birth certificate or passport. Being first in line, it only took me about forty minutes, including completing the 4473 on an electronic tablet. No more paper version... at least not there. So now I get to wait to pick it up; anytime after 0945 2/28/2025. (But if I don't get it before 03/20/2025 I get to start over). I hate to say it, but I had the impression that the folks behind the counter don't enjoy it any more than the customers. Certainly not a cheerful bunch; can't say I blame 'em. Yup... a real PITA. 3 1 4 Quote
El Chapo Posted February 19 Posted February 19 It would seem like this is a good reason to not live in California. The last time I bought a gun, I was out of there in less time than it took for you to simply talk to a person. Fill out 4473, show CCW, leave with gun. Quote
Matthew Duncan Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Why doesn’t the count down start when you ordered it online? I live in a free state and this wait stuff is foreign to me. 4 Quote
watab kid Posted February 19 Posted February 19 makes me cross off that as a next place to move ...........along with a lot of other things , im not sayin where i am is any better - it aint but we dont have these stupid gun laws yet Quote
Dapper Dave Posted February 19 Posted February 19 That's terrible. I picked up my new Heritage 92 the other day, walked in, filled out the 4473, (they are all online now, I believe), showed my DL and CCW permit, (Constitutional Carry state, but the permit lets me streamline buying and CCW in some other states), paid the lady and I was out the door in less than 20 minutes. I can only hope that someday soon we can get rid of much of the political garbage clogging up our freedoms. Quote
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) I bought a shotgun two weeks ago and the place I bought it at still calls in the 4473. It took 15 minutes! Way too long to wait! 😂😂 Most places here do it online and if you have a current CCL they don’t call it in at all. My CCL has expired and I haven’t renewed because we have a Constitutional Carry in place. Edited February 19 by Rye Miles #13621 Quote
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 5 hours ago, El Chapo said: It would seem like this is a good reason to not live in California. The last time I bought a gun, I was out of there in less time than it took for you to simply talk to a person. Fill out 4473, show CCW, leave with gun. Just one of many reasons we left California over ten years ago. I have regretted not leaving 20 or 30 yers ago, but who knew? 1 Quote
Barry Sloe Posted February 19 Posted February 19 I was stopped when it said "scan this to get in line". I don't scan things. Guess I don't have to wait in line. BS 3 1 Quote
Eyesa Horg Posted February 19 Posted February 19 But yet we aren't being infringed on a Constitutional right! We now have a 72 hour cooling off period . I wasn't hot in the first place! Still way better than the western side of our great country. 1 Quote
John Kloehr Posted February 19 Posted February 19 I see the waiting periods more about reducing the number of FFLs than controlling some heat of passion. I can stop at small FFLs when on a trip just to check out what is in the used section. But will I buy if I have to come back a second time? Probably not, especially if some hours from home. The paperless 4473s are due to the ATF/Biden zero tolerance policy, is that a 7 or a 1? And checked by multiple staff members. Quote
Matthew Duncan Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barry Sloe said: I was stopped when it said "scan this to get in line". I don't scan things. Guess I don't have to wait in line. BS Years ago I took a Kenmore microwave to Sears for repair. Sears called, microwave was unrepairable. Did I want them to dispose of it or pick it up. Sears was a hour drive away, on a whim I said I’d pick it. That was stupid I thought, well it would allow me to be tempted by their Craftsman tools. 😀 Sears Clerk directed to the back of the store. No employee at the counter, no “ring bell for service” or surveillance camera I could see. Was a large screen TV hanging on the wall the said “NEXT CUSTOMER TO BE SERVED” with what appeared to be two last names, which I found strange because I was the only one there. Perhaps some self check in procedure? Well if there was I couldn’t find any signs telling the customer what to do. But back in a corner, no where close to the TV, I found a computer “Check in here”. Name, invoice number, description of item, typed it all in and pressed ENTER. I waited 10 minutes for my name to appear on the TV (which it didn’t) or for an employee to pop out with my unrepairable microwave ( none did). Hmmm. You see my dad was stubborn and so was my mother. Plus I dealt with bureaucrats for almost 19 years. I was born for this. Using my fist I knocked on a door that signed for “employees only”. Door swung open, employee acted as he had seen a ghost. Guess I woke him from a nap? Told why I was there, he told me I needed to check in first, been there done that 10 minutes ago, he said he’ll call back to the warehouse. Thank you with a smile. 5 minutes later later I’m knocking on the door, well? They will call the warehouse again. Thank you with no smile. Two burly guys burst though the swinging doors together and head straight to me. The A team I thought. They wanted my name, invoice number and what I was picking up. When I told them that I had already typed that into their system which appears on the warehouse monitor too (a shot in the dark) I was told that is out of order. They will bring my microwave out to me. 15 minutes wait until one of them returns empty handed. They can’t find it I’ll have to come back later. No. 2 hour round trip for me, I’ll wait. I get a look of discuss. He declines my offer to find the store manager to assist them. 5 minutes later BINGO they found my microwave! Wonderful. I notice there was a repair order taped to it. It listed parts replace and cost. What do I owe Sears as I pointed to the repair order. Nothing, unrepairable. Guessing he had a Full House and I as a customer was holding up the game. Thank you with a smile. When I got home I plugged the microwave in. Other than the clock display flickering it worked fine. Used it for another 10 years. Sometimes pushing gently back at the bureaucracy/store policy pays off. Then there was the time my wife bought me a Sears fiberglass step ladder for Father’s Day. A week later she received a bill from Sears. They forgot to charge her for shipping!? The charge for shipping was more than what the ladder cost. I loaded up the ladder and made the hour drive to Sears. Told the I clerk I have invoice marked “paid in full” what is freight owed nonsense? Store policy. I want to speak to your manager. Manager parroted the same Store Policy excuse. Ok fine. I want to return the ladder. They gave me a refund and waived the shipping. Wonder why Sears went out of business? Edited February 19 by Matthew Duncan Correct autocorrect 3 Quote
ORNERY OAF Posted February 19 Posted February 19 4 hours ago, John Kloehr said: The paperless 4473s are due to the ATF/Biden zero tolerance policy, is that a 7 or a 1? And checked by multiple staff members. Nope, it's not. Shop i hang at ,in a free state, went to paperless because they have several years of boxes and boxes of 4473s stacked all through the back of the shop. It saves a ton of room for storage especially like this shop who does high volume-several k a year sales. They do like the part of a whole lot less human error, won't let you move on if ya screw something up. Don't mind them. Working in a shop, have you ever had to decipher a 4473 by guessing what it says cause someone writes like a drunk 2 year old with a crayon. Not always bad. Duel edge sword. 2 Quote
DeaconKC Posted February 19 Posted February 19 52 minutes ago, ORNERY OAF said: Working in a shop, have you ever had to decipher a 4473 by guessing what it says cause someone writes like a drunk 2 year old with a crayon. Not always bad. Duel edge sword. Absolute truth! 1 Quote
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 I've filled out 4473s on a screen before, but I don't think that they're online, just on the shops confuser. It doesn't bother me, I suppose that it does make handwriting easier to read, and doesn't let you miss anything. (How many here forget to put in their County?) 1 Quote
ORNERY OAF Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Not forget a lot but where it says COUNTY, I've seen a ton of "U.S.A"....lol 1 Quote
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 15 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said: Why doesn’t the count down start when you ordered it online? The rules say that the gun has to be in actual possession of the gun shop when the paperwork is filed. Turners keeps most guns at their distribution center. They used to call in and get a SN for the gun and be able to start paperwork. Now you have to wait for it to get transferred to the shop to start the 10 day mourning period. 1 1 Quote
Pat Riot Posted February 19 Posted February 19 So what gun did you order? Got an image? Oops! Never mind. Bass Pro makes you use their kiosk to order your gun if there are none in the store. I told the clerk “You use the kiosk and order my gun. I am the customer. You are the employee.” He said “Sorry, we can’t do that. You will have to do it.” I said “No…I don’t think I do.” and I left. Easy peasy! 1 1 Quote
John Kloehr Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, ORNERY OAF said: Nope, it's not. Shop i hang at ,in a free state, went to paperless because they have several years of boxes and boxes of 4473s stacked all through the back of the shop. It saves a ton of room for storage especially like this shop who does high volume-several k a year sales. They do like the part of a whole lot less human error, won't let you move on if ya screw something up. Don't mind them. Working in a shop, have you ever had to decipher a 4473 by guessing what it says cause someone writes like a drunk 2 year old with a crayon. Not always bad. Duel edge sword. Some FFL:s around here refuse to go to computer and the FFL is a corporation with next officers in waiting. They don't want to ever turn the paper forms over to anyone, bring a warrant. 2 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: I've filled out 4473s on a screen before, but I don't think that they're online, just on the shops confuser. It doesn't bother me, I suppose that it does make handwriting easier to read, and doesn't let you miss anything. (How many here forget to put in their County?) A friend of mine got thrown by the confuser thing, he actually loses his reading and particularly comprehension skill when the text is on a screen. 1 hour ago, ORNERY OAF said: Not forget a lot but where it says COUNTY, I've seen a ton of "U.S.A"....lol Speaking of which, I think that was one of the dumb things my friend struggled with. Edited February 19 by John Kloehr Quote
Blackwater 53393 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Last purchase I made, I handed the clerk my Carry Permit and he filled out the form on his computer. Asked me a couple of questions and told me to take a seat. Ten minutes later, a nice young lady handed my permit back and laid my new toy in my hands. I didn’t have time to have a decent conversation with an old friend I hadn’t seen in years! Quote
J-BAR #18287 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 You make me want to go buy something just so I can post about how easy it is in Missouri (or America, take your pick). 3 2 Quote
Doc Shapiro Posted February 20 Posted February 20 I stopped buying guns in CA about 10 years ago. We fled that state (CA) the last day of '24. Already bought a gun here. Went in, paid for it, they typed a bunch of stuff into the computer from my DL, I punched some buttons for the form, and was able to walk out with it. That was amazing. I didn't really need to buy a gun, just wanted to experience it . 6 1 Quote
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 15 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said: I didn't really need to buy a gun, . BLASPHEMY!!! 1 3 Quote
Blackwater 53393 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 8 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: BLASPHEMY!!! When it comes to buyin’ guns… NEED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!! 2 1 Quote
Pat Riot Posted February 20 Posted February 20 The fastest gun purchase that I made here was 3 minutes. I did call ahead to tell them I was coming to get it. Average time to purchase is about 10 minutes. I do not miss California’s silly laws. I feel for you @Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 I am wondering if all Sportsman’s Warehouses are going to this kiosk type stuff. 1 Quote
Doc Shapiro Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Wife will be going in to experience it in the next day or two. She ordered a Sig P239 Rose, in 9mm. Holster is already on the way. 2 Quote
Doc Shapiro Posted February 20 Posted February 20 3 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said: When it comes to buyin’ guns… NEED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!! Truth 1 1 1 Quote
J.D. Daily Posted February 20 Posted February 20 I have bought 3 guns total at the 2 Sportsman's WH's near me in the last 4 years. In both locations the 4473 is filled out on a tablet. The app is better than using the internet based form because the characters are larger and it is one question per screen. One I ordered on-line. When I showed up the next morning I showed the clerk my one-line receipt on my phone he checked the stores point of sale system then went in the back & returned with the Henry survival rifle. I then completed the 4473 questions signed on a signature pad. I then showed my CCW which allowed me to bypass the NV DoJ check. The last sale was a little different in that I had overlooked that the CCW expired in April. Therefore I had to pay the $35 an because this late in the day so I had to wait for the store to call which was the next morning. The LGS I have purchased one rifle & 2 suppressors over plus used to transfer a AR-15 stripped lower over 4 years has always used a computer app. which makes it easy to correct the typical mistake of putting USA in the County field. The two suppressors were a PITA because I had to fill out 2 form 1's and 2 4473's when the ATF sent the registration letter with tax stamp to pick them up. I bought the 2 suppressors (22LR & 46 caliber) to get a BOGO 30 caliber). The form 4 was filled out on Silencer Co's website and the 4473 I filled out at the LGS when they received the suppressors. A year before I bought a Silencer Central 30 cal suppressor entirely online. After the ATF approved (14 months) I filled out and signed online. The suppressor & ATF letter w/tax stamp showed up at the house a couple of days later. Quote
Pat Riot Posted February 20 Posted February 20 @Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 What shotgun did you end up buying? Quote
ORNERY OAF Posted February 20 Posted February 20 12 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said: Last purchase I made, I handed the clerk my Carry Permit and he filled out the form on his computer. Asked me a couple of questions and told me to take a seat. Ten minutes later, a nice young lady handed my permit back and laid my new toy in my hands. I didn’t have time to have a decent conversation with an old friend I hadn’t seen in years! If you didn't fill out and sign your 4473, your ffl is stupid and they will get hammered for being so. Anyone that has done any gunshop time can tell you this, unless you are exaggerating a smidge.....which I image so. 1 Quote
Eyesa Horg Posted February 20 Posted February 20 I've done electronic 4473s, but always had to sign a paper at the register when they were ready. Quote
Blackwater 53393 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 1 hour ago, ORNERY OAF said: If you didn't fill out and sign your 4473, your ffl is stupid and they will get hammered for being so. Anyone that has done any gunshop time can tell you this, unless you are exaggerating a smidge.....which I image so. Paperwork was filed electronically. No exaggeration whatsoever. I signed for it when I handed them my carry permit! 1 Quote
bgavin Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Here in CA... ------------------------------------ Gun Show or Store Orders ------------------------------------ • Pay the vendor for a non-stock gun • Wait X days for distributor shipment arrival • Drive to the vendors shop for paperwork • Fill out ATF Form 4473 Firearm Transfer Record • Provide ID • Provide legal proof-of-address (rifle) • Provide second legal proof-of-address (handgun) • Pay $100 DROS fee • Pay $25 Firearm Safety Course fee • Pay retail Sales Tax • Pay for mandatory trigger lock • Start 10 day waiting period • Start 30 day additional handgun waiting period • Drive to the vendors shop for delivery • Demonstrate basic operator proficiency with new gun 1 4 Quote
Eyesa Horg Posted February 20 Posted February 20 When I was in Communisticut, we had to have the trigger lock to leave the store. If you didn't bring one, they'd loan you one to get it to your car,then bring it back in! I've still got a bunch from stores that weren't into the loaning thing. Eventually I smartened up and left one in the glove box! Quote
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted February 21 Author Posted February 21 13 hours ago, Pat Riot said: @Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 What shotgun did you end up buying? Well, Pat, I ended up with the Stevens 555 28 gauge. I looked for the "Enhanced" version, but ended up with the standard - at 1¢ under seven hundred bucks. Seems the "E" model was not practical to acquire locally without busting the thousand-dollar ceiling. Ah well... I'll live with the matte finish and extractors. Plain and simple, just like me. As much as I'd like a Browning or Beretta, for the limited use it'll see it should be just fine. Some folks talk about buying a box of ammo, then finding a gun to go with it ~ I actually have had a 28 ga MEC loader sitting here for a bunch o' months now. Oh... and on his list, @bgavin left out the thumbprint requirement and the additional 11% BS california punishment tax. Total fees and taxes - DROS, sales tax, DROS, BS fee, Firearms Safety Act fee, and Safety and Enforcement fee - adds a total of 20% to the cost of a firearm here. Now, if you "import" a gun from another state via a local FFL holder (dealer), you might add up to another hundred bucks. https://www.gundogmag.com/editorial/stevens-model-555-28-gauge-review/175319 2 1 Quote
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