Pat Riot Posted February 16, 2025 Posted February 16, 2025 22 hours ago, Hashknife Cowboy said: I recently bought a .308 and was made to feel like my sanity was in question. I know what you mean. I think it’s great that the 6.5 CM is popular and people like it, but I find it annoying that dealing with some 6.5 fans is like having a couple of self absorbed Vegans at your holiday dinner table. I was looking at buying a bolt gun in .308. The sales guy tried to steer me to the 6.5 Creedmoor as they had more rifles to choose from. Two younger guys (customers) decided to chime in with their 2¢. Directly behind us was the ammo aisle. I said “Let’s just look at some .308 and 6.5 ammo and make some comparisons.” A look of satisfaction came over the 4 (another clerk had joined the fellowship of the Creedmoorians) The 2 young guys and I went up the rifle ammo aisle the 2 clerks watched us. I said “Grab a box of each of the 6.5 and I will do the same with the .308 and we can compare.” It was agreed. As I was picking up the 5th box of .308 (there were 8 different ones to choose from) I hear “I don’t see any 6.5 Creedmoor!” I actually knew this from looking at ammo while I waited for a clerk to be available to help me with my hunt for a .308 rifle. I put the .308 boxes back where they belonged and said while motioning towards the numerous boxes of 8 different loads “This is one reason the .308 is has an edge over 6.5 or any other hunting cartridge. It’s available and it isn’t so popular that finding ammo is tough. I didn’t get an “Amen”, but I did get acknowledgment that I had a very good point. In discussing “long range”. A man has got to know his limitations. I have crummy eyesight even with glasses. I also do not have the confidence in myself to make an accurate humane shot a more than 200 yards. Oh, I can hit a 12” gong with my .308 scoped rifles out to 400 yards, but I would never try that on an animal. Hitting a gong is one thing. Wounding an animal is something else. I look at my abilities like this. If that animal is too far away for me to confidently shoot and kill it then I need to be a “hunter” and get close enough to confidently and humanely kill the animal. If I can’t get close enough or that animal detects me then the animal lives and I can learn from the experience and move on. I am not desperate for food and my well being doesn’t hinge on taking that animal at any cost. Apologies for getting blabber-fingered.
Nickle Posted February 16, 2025 Posted February 16, 2025 I've taken alot of big game with original winchesters . Models 1895 and 1886 mostly but I've also used others. It always adds more to the hunt for me to be carrying something I liked. I'm sure tons of moose have been cleanly taken in Maine with pre 64 winchester m 94 in 30wcf . I've taken alot of big game with cast bullets. With factory ammo prices these young guys should be learning to cast there own. It's just better for a young person to be casting and out hunting than in town getting into trouble. A 45/70 500g will clobber a moose. Plus your calling in moose anyways aren't you? When I was guiding moose hunters I was calling everything in and most shots 20 yards. Anything really would work at these ranges. Moose and big bucks usually don't hang out in the open on public land during rifle season. Cast bullets kill way better than paper ballistics let on. 38/55 and bigger cast bullet guns can put meat on the table the same now as years ago. To me a scoped bolt gun is just boring. Yes bolt guns are king but way more than what is really needed. BTW I'm in southern Alberta and I used to hunt open country. These modern ray guns really are not needed. Mostly the big ones are not standing out in the open anyways. But original 1895s are still affordable and can be had in flat shooting calibers. Savage 1899 in 250/3000 or 300 Savage if you think you need a scope.
Texas Maverick Posted February 16, 2025 Posted February 16, 2025 13 hours ago, Nickle said: I really hate trendy new cartridges. In Maine I'm thinking your shots are not going to be that long. Young hunter shouldn't be worried to much about long range shooting on game anyways. The best gun should be something he thinks is cool. Something he likes. Not something because it might give some type of edge. What you hunting? Deer,moose? Under 200yards? Get him something affordable and pleasant for him to practice with but get him something that for whatever reason he thinks is cool. The gun should be something that to him is beautiful and that he can hardly keep his eyes off of it. Sure sounds like you are saying get a nice fancy lever action 30-30. LOL Great gun and it is cool. TM
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 16, 2025 Posted February 16, 2025 5 hours ago, Pat Riot said: Make sure that whatever cartridge you choose that is legal to take big game where ever you and you son plan to hunt. I really would like a .243 Winchester rifle. Here in WV cartridges must be .25 caliber or larger for taking whitetail, mule deer and elk. 6.5mm CM fires a projectile that is actually .2644” (6.72 mm). WTH couldn’t they have called it a 6.7 Creedmoor? Annoying dipsticks. Why did Remington market a .44 magnum instead of a .43 magnum? Why .44-40 and .38-40 instead of .43-40 and .40-.40? Why .38 special instead of .357 special? Why .480 Ruger instead of .475 Ruger? (It actually was called the .475 Ruger early on, I guess it didn't sound big enough) Why .325 Winchester Short Mag instead of .323 WSM? Why is it a .50 BMG instead of a .51 BMG?
Nickle Posted February 16, 2025 Posted February 16, 2025 3 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Why did Remington market a .44 magnum instead of a .43 magnum? Why .44-40 and .38-40 instead of .43-40 and .40-.40? Why .38 special instead of .357 special? Why .480 Ruger instead of .475 Ruger? (It actually was called the .475 Ruger early on, I guess it didn't sound big enough) Why .325 Winchester Short Mag instead of .323 WSM? Why is it a .50 BMG instead of a .51 BMG? Men just naturally say things are a few inches bigger
Sheriff Dill Posted February 17, 2025 Author Posted February 17, 2025 10 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: Perfect timing for this. My son was driving the other day and asked me Who is Chuck Norris. ? Something had popped up on social media about him. I of course responded with he’s one of the original Bad A@@es. And began listing off some of the movies and shows he has been in.
Pat Riot Posted February 17, 2025 Posted February 17, 2025 4 hours ago, Sheriff Dill said: Perfect timing for this. My son was driving the other day and asked me Who is Chuck Norris. ? Something had popped up on social media about him. I of course responded with he’s one of the original Bad A@@es. And began listing off some of the movies and shows he has been in. I have to ask… Who is the “Tough Guy” of today?
Sheriff Dill Posted February 17, 2025 Author Posted February 17, 2025 4 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: I have to ask… Who is the “Tough Guy” of today? Now a days kids look at “tough guys “ differently than I do. They probably think Kendrick Lamar is the tough guy these days. But my son would probably say some MMA guy.
Texas Maverick Posted February 17, 2025 Posted February 17, 2025 19 hours ago, Nickle said: Men just naturally say things are a few inches bigger or in the case of Three Foot Johnson. LOL TM
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted February 17, 2025 Posted February 17, 2025 On 2/14/2025 at 3:49 PM, Sheriff Dill said: We live in Vt so white tails,coyote ,black bear and potentially moose if we are going to be ambitious and try to get a permit. MY choice for most of what you mention would be the Poor Man's Magnum; the .30-06 Up here, if you're not a reloader, we used to tell students who asked: "If you can't find the ammo on the shelf at Canadian Tire, don't buy that rifle!" I saw it happen, to a new fellow to our group, who brought his .358 Magnum moose hunting with us. An hour and a half in by boat and an hour from the little town of Gowganda and it's GAS Station/General Store/Beer and Liqour sales outlet etc. When he unpacked, he found his ammo was missing. Trip back to Gowganda and several phone calls to nearby towns? No results. Fortunately a couple of us had brought a spare rifle.
Pat Riot Posted February 17, 2025 Posted February 17, 2025 23 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said: MY choice for most of what you mention would be the Poor Man's Magnum; the .30-06 Up here, if you're not a reloader, we used to tell students who asked: "If you can't find the ammo on the shelf at Canadian Tire, don't buy that rifle!" I saw it happen, to a new fellow to our group, who brought his .358 Magnum moose hunting with us. An hour and a half in by boat and an hour from the little town of Gowganda and it's GAS Station/General Store/Beer and Liqour sales outlet etc. When he unpacked, he found his ammo was missing. Trip back to Gowganda and several phone calls to nearby towns? No results. Fortunately a couple of us had brought a spare rifle. I can’t tell you how many times I have been in a gun store hearing the woeful tale of some young guy that has some event he needs ammo for and he can’t find the particular ammo he needs anywhere. “Event” - a hunting trip, shooting match, shooting trip, etc… Years ago I encountered a guy that had one of those weird Winchester Short Magnum rifles. I think it was 7mm WSM. I was in the mountains at a campground in the San Bernardino Nat’l Forest just north of Big Bear, CA. He had searched everywhere “down the hill” (we were camping at 8600’) and he somehow thought showing up at camp would magically add inventory to the meager gun stores in Big Bear. He left for Big Bear at 07:00 and returned just before the sun went down behind the mountain at 16:30. He had no luck. While he was making his way around the campground generally lowering the mood I wondered if someone might give him at least one round of ammo in his rearend. He politely asked permission to enter my campsite and I obliged. We talked a moment and then he said something that made me want to kick him in the arse. ”Maybe I should have brought my 7mm-08 as a backup.” The guy lived 3 hours away. He could have gone home and been back early in the afternoon. The next day was the start of our deer season. He spent the night then the next morning when I came back to camp for lunch he was gone, camper and all. I guess he gave up. Never saw him again. Funny thing is I offered to let him use my Marlin 30-30. That was my backup. He declined with a snotty look on his face. I’m glad he left.
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 17, 2025 Posted February 17, 2025 3 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: I can’t tell you how many times I have been in a gun store hearing the woeful tale of some young guy that has some event he needs ammo for and he can’t find the particular ammo he needs anywhere. The worst of those short mags turned out to be the .300 and .338 RCM. They didn't last long. Then there were the guys who had to have the latest and greatest Ultra Mag, and would be back in after their first range trip asking about "Managed Recoil" loads.
Sheriff Dill Posted February 17, 2025 Author Posted February 17, 2025 I think we have narrowed it down a bit 243,308,30-06 ,or 7mm 08 Now the hunt for one that he likes and wants.
Cholla Posted February 17, 2025 Posted February 17, 2025 On 2/16/2025 at 5:26 AM, Pat Riot said: Make sure that whatever cartridge you choose that is legal to take big game where ever you and you son plan to hunt. I really would like a .243 Winchester rifle. Here in WV cartridges must be .25 caliber or larger for taking whitetail, mule deer and elk. 6.5mm CM fires a projectile that is actually .2644” (6.72 mm). WTH couldn’t they have called it a 6.7 Creedmoor? Annoying dipsticks. The same reason a 6mm isn't really a 6mm, which has killed at least one person.
Pat Riot Posted February 17, 2025 Posted February 17, 2025 43 minutes ago, Cholla said: The same reason a 6mm isn't really a 6mm, which has killed at least one person. I don’t follow… What do you mean?
Cholla Posted February 18, 2025 Posted February 18, 2025 2 hours ago, Pat Riot said: I don’t follow… What do you mean? Most 6mm cartridges use a .243 bullet when 6mm actually is .236". The Lee Navy Rifle and cartridge, used by the US Navy in the late 1800s and offered commercially by Winchester in a straight-pull rifle, used an actual .236" (6mm) bullet. About 20 years ago, a reloader/gun enthusiast went to the range with his new to him rare Lee Navy rifle and some ammo he loaded with "6mm" bullets. The .243 bullets trying to swage down the .236 bore caused too much pressure and sent the bolt into the man's brain. Other shooters wanted to save him but were unsuccessful. The same thing almost happened again not long ago, but the shooter was not seriously injured. The lesson is that nominal size and actual size are rarely the same thing with guns, and if you have a Lee Navy rifle, get a mold for the correct size or leave it on the wall to admire.
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