Bragg is back

[Stump Water]

Hegseth Renames Fort Liberty [back] to Fort Bragg

 

I very smooth nose thumbing.

 

 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Now they have to reprint all that stationary....again.

[Pat Riot]

I guessed that the name was changed to Fort Liberty due to the s***bag cancel culture BS?

Did little search. I was right. Glad it’s changing back. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

A little info about Pvt Bragg a true hero

 

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/11/nx-s1-5293246/hegseth-fort-bragg-liberty-name

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Glad to see it back as ft. Bragg!!!

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

This is an expensive way to thumb your nose at somebody. I grew up in the deep south and I never understood why the military would name their bases after men they swore to defend against. I also never understood why people would believe the politicians who told them why they should be fighting a civil war, but just look at all the dumb stuff people on both sides will believe now. 

[Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372]

17 minutes ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

This is an expensive way to thumb your nose at somebody. I grew up in the deep south and I never understood why the military would name their bases after men they swore to defend against. I also never understood why people would believe the politicians who told them why they should be fighting a civil war, but just look at all the dumb stuff people on both sides will believe now. 

Those men you mention all fought for the US at one point.  At that time, most Americans identified with their state long before they considered being US.  And, after the war, all those Confederate soldiers were pardoned and given US veterans status.  Both sides worked very hard to paper over what happened and make the country whole again.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

And in the last quarter century the left-wing, do-gooder, know-nothing, hippy,,yuppy, woke, you-name-it jerks have managed to find idiot politicians to do their will without even asking what the real population wants.

 

A POX on them, one and all.

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

And in the last quarter century the left-wing, do-gooder, know-nothing, hippy,,yuppy, woke, you-name-it jerks have managed to find idiot politicians to do their will without even asking what the real population wants.

 

A POX on them, one and all.

 

 Dear Uncle Forty,

                    If you keep holding back like that you're going to do yourself an internal injury ........  

 

 

🙃

[Sundog]

Just glad it's not Alvin Bragg.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 2/12/2025 at 12:59 PM, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

 

 Dear Uncle Forty,

                    If you keep holding back like that you're going to do yourself an internal injury ........  

 

 

🙃

No I won't!  

 

The way I see it, it's therapeutic, positively relaxing, ....and the responses I get are sometimes hilarious.

 

In any case I sleep better than so many people who hold it in until it becomes ulcer fodder.

 

Sigh!

Edited February 14 by Forty Rod SASS 3935

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

20 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

And in the last quarter century the left-wing, do-gooder, know-nothing, hippy,,yuppy, woke, you-name-it jerks have managed to find idiot politicians to do their will without even asking what the real population wants.

 

A POX on them, one and all.

And in the last quarter century Republicans kept getting worse and worse too. It's not enough any more to only see what's wrong with the other side.

 

Anyway, to get back on topic, it's too bad some people think it's a good idea to name American bases for somebody who fought against America no matter how creatively you try to pretend that's not what you're doing.

[PowderRiverCowboy]

11 minutes ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

And in the last quarter century Republicans kept getting worse and worse too. It's not enough any more to only see what's wrong with the other side.

 

Anyway, to get back on topic, it's too bad some people think it's a good idea to name American bases for somebody who fought against America no matter how creatively you try to pretend that's not what you're doing.

 

Who lit the fuse on your tampon ? Imagine being so weak being offended by a name , of a base you never served at

Your boy vs Hegseth

Edited February 13 by PowderRiverCowboy

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

5 minutes ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

 

Who lit the fuse on your tampon ?

Your boy vs Hegseth

Thanks for making my point for me.

[PowderRiverCowboy]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

Thanks for making my point for me.

 

Yep and you made mine , Fact is it never truly changed It was always Ft Bragg always will be  Next Up Fort Lee 

So serious question did you ever even serve in Military ?

[DocWard]

4 hours ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

So serious question did you ever even serve in Military ?

 

What in the wide, wide world of sports does that have to do with anything? Before you start in with "If you didn't serve...," just remember this: The military is, and by necessity must be, subservient to the Constitution and the duly elected civilian authority. That is, the citizenry of the United States who elect their representatives. Thus, if an American citizen formulates an intelligent, articulate and well reasoned opinion, then their military experience on such issues is irrelevant. I would say it was relevant to matters of combat experience and armchair quarterbacking things done in the heat of battle, but that is a very different thing.

There is significant documentation to support the assertion that the forts named for confederate generals were so named to assuage Southern feelings at the time the "lost cause" argument was propounded as confederate soldiers aged. It may be coincidental that the naming, the placement of statues of confederate heroes, the lost cause argument, and Jim Crow were taking place at roughly the same period in time, but I think meeting the burden in showing such a coincidence would  be quite taxing. 

So, for those who are comfortable maintaining such names, despite the arguably racist history surrounding them, my response is feel free to do so, just be honest with yourself and everyone else as to that history.

 

Personally, I still think Bragg should have been renamed Fort Benavidez.

[PowderRiverCowboy]

28 minutes ago, DocWard said:

 

What in the wide, wide world of sports does that have to do with anything? Before you start in with "If you didn't serve...," just remember this: The military is, and by necessity must be, subservient to the Constitution and the duly elected civilian authority. That is, the citizenry of the United States who elect their representatives. Thus, if an American citizen formulates an intelligent, articulate and well reasoned opinion, then their military experience on such issues is irrelevant. I would say it was relevant to matters of combat experience and armchair quarterbacking things done in the heat of battle, but that is a very different thing.

There is significant documentation to support the assertion that the forts named for confederate generals were so named to assuage Southern feelings at the time the "lost cause" argument was propounded as confederate soldiers aged. It may be coincidental that the naming, the placement of statues of confederate heroes, the lost cause argument, and Jim Crow were taking place at roughly the same period in time, but I think meeting the burden in showing such a coincidence would  be quite taxing. 

So, for those who are comfortable maintaining such names, despite the arguably racist history surrounding them, my response is feel free to do so, just be honest with yourself and everyone else as to that history.

 

Personally, I still think Bragg should have been renamed Fort Benavidez.

 

Your term, racist is null and void anytime you dont agree with something . Case closed

 

“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” 

 

Meet PFC Bragg 
 

Pfc. Bragg enlisted in the Army and was assigned to the 17th Airborne Division’s 513th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the XVIII Airborne Corps at the post that bears his name.

He was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroics during the Battle of the Bulge, according to Hegseth’s memo. Bragg is credited with saving another soldier’s life by “commandeering an enemy ambulance and driving it 20 miles” to an Allied hospital in Belgium, the memo says.

Bragg died in January 1999. He was 75.

Edited February 13 by PowderRiverCowboy

[DocWard]

1 hour ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

 

Your term, racist is null and void anytime you dont agree with something . Case closed

 

“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” 

 

How convenient for you. You can ignore an entire exposition that you would otherwise have to defend against by keying in on one little word near the end. An adjective in this usage at that. I suppose that's analogous in its own way to those on the left who don't like something  and simply say "Hitler." I suppose it saves you from being offended and butt hurt. Or does it? At any rate, congratulations on finding a safe out so that you don't have to worry one way or another.

 

Quick knowledge check, do you even know who you are quoting? It's by philosopher George Santayana, and the actual quote is "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

1 hour ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

 

Meet PFC Bragg 
 

Pfc. Bragg enlisted in the Army and was assigned to the 17th Airborne Division’s 513th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the XVIII Airborne Corps at the post that bears his name.

He was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroics during the Battle of the Bulge, according to Hegseth’s memo. Bragg is credited with saving another soldier’s life by “commandeering an enemy ambulance and driving it 20 miles” to an Allied hospital in Belgium, the memo says.

Bragg died in January 1999. He was 75.

 

Interestingly, nowhere did I say that PFC Bragg was undeserving. I simply noted that MSG Roy Benavidez would have been my preference. Considering the fort is the home of the JFK Special Warfare Center I consider it appropriate.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Well, this subject sure went to hell quickly.  Are we going to destroy everything after 150+ years over names?  Get real, people.  We're acting one of my Mom's first grade classes.

 

I'm done with this subject.

Edited February 14 by Forty Rod SASS 3935

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I'm glad nobody north of the Mason-Dixon is upset because they named New York after the WWI

hero from Tennessee....... Alvin York.

 

I wonder just how many southern cities are named after Native American tribes or Native American

chiefs, etc........who were considered savages.

 

And Hollywood had a lot of nerve creating movie titled 'Fort Apache'.    

 

Did Bruce Lee actually get his name from Robert E?

 

(tongue in cheek)

 

..........Widder

 

[John Kloehr]

Clearly some strong feelings here. So this reply is from someone who came in the front door (brought by my parents), applied for and became a US citizen, did register for the draft but did not volunteer or get called up.

 

I did some digging onto the original Bragg and the new Bragg. The original was not well liked, not well respected, and lost almost every engagement he commanded. I do not understand why the base was originally named for him. The New Bragg is worthy of recognition and I heartily endorse the renaming.

 

As to removing the original Bragg due to woke thinking, I think that is worthy of the term "deplorable" and a rejection of the principles this country was founded on. I also have no argument if those in any service never acknowledged the interim name regardless of letterhead or signage due to the attitudes of those behind the interim change.

[DocWard]

15 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I wonder just how many southern cities are named after Native American tribes or Native American

chiefs, etc........who were considered savages.

 

Pffft.... Did you ever look at a map of Ohio?

[John Kloehr]

22 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I wonder just how many southern cities are named after Native American tribes or Native American

chiefs, etc........who were considered savages.

Tennessee came from the native Tenasi.

 

Other places here:

 

Chattanooga, Ocoee; Hatchie; Tuckaleechee; Sequatchie; Hiawassee; Etowah; Sewanee; Watauga; Tellico; Chilhowee; Chickamauga; Nolichucky; Mississippi; Loosahatchie; Chickasaw; and Cherokee.

 

We also have:

 

Lebanon; Sparta; Athens; Egypt; Carthage; Paris; Bordeaux; Moscow; Belfast; Bogata; Monterey; Cuba; India.

 

 

 

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

On 2/13/2025 at 9:34 AM, PowderRiverCowboy said:

 

So serious question did you ever even serve in Military ?

Yeah

[Texas Lizard]

On 2/11/2025 at 11:00 AM, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Now they have to reprint all that stationary....again.

Put the old stuff in the little house out back.....

 

Texas Lizard

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

On 2/11/2025 at 12:26 PM, Pat Riot said:

I guessed that the name was changed to Fort Liberty due to the s***bag cancel culture BS?

Did little search. I was right. Glad it’s changing back. 

 

It's not changing back.  It's named after a different Bragg

[watab kid]

not just restore the names - we need to re-erect the statues , it was wrong to erase history [remember as you may ] but you dont erase it , it was never haltered it was heritage - we just had different ways of life and as wrong as slavery was , the southern way of life was not wrong , ill stand on this line till i die [never having owned slave nor my family having , but being southern] 

[Eyesa Horg]

Folks already forget that slaves were sold and owned by the their own people. We need to stop condemning folks for what was normal and acceptable at the time. BTW, I'm one of them Yankees!! 

[DocWard]

In his 1775 treatise, Taxation No Tyranny, British author Dr. Samuel Johnson rhetorically asked, “How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?”

 

“[T]here is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it...” - George Washington 1786

 

I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in abhorrence … ” - John Adams 1819

 

“Slavery is … an atrocious debasement of human nature.” Benjamin Franklin 1789

 

"He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce." - Thomas Jefferson, early draft of The Declaration of Independence, 1776

 

One need look no further than the secession documents of the Southern states to understand that, while they claimed "states' rights," as allowing their secession, the first and primary reason for doing so was to avoid the elimination of slavery. This, many decades after so many, slave holders among them, argued against the practice as against human nature.

 

While I will assert the states should have had the right to secede from the Union, I am under no illusion as to why they chose to do so.

 

 

[watab kid]

there ya go - there were plenty of voices against slavery , my families among them , but erasing history and tearing down monuments to people that stood up for their home states is an unforgivable disgrace , no better than the taliban doing such in their areas of influence and that went back a lor farther than ours did ...............anyway PUT THEM BACK UP 

[DocWard]

3 hours ago, watab kid said:

there ya go - there were plenty of voices against slavery , my families among them , but erasing history and tearing down monuments to people that stood up for their home states is an unforgivable disgrace , no better than the taliban doing such in their areas of influence and that went back a lor farther than ours did ...............anyway PUT THEM BACK UP 

 

Given your response, I'm not sure you read my entire post. My point was that by 1860, slavery wasn't normal nor acceptable. Except in the South, where they literally chose, according to their own documents, to fight a war over it. Instead of the comparison to the Taliban, having those statues up would be more akin to leaving statues and artwork of Saddam Hussein in Iraq after the war, or statues and monuments to Hitler and other high ranking Nazis in Germany at the end of WWII.

 

I won't get into why the statues were erected in the first place. One can remember history and keep it from being "erased," without keeping statues placed for the wrong reasons. Erasing history can work both ways.

Edited February 16 by DocWard

[watab kid]

16 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

Given your response, I'm not sure you read my entire post. My point was that by 1860, slavery wasn't normal nor acceptable. Except in the South, where they literally chose, according to their own documents, to fight a war over it. Instead of the comparison to the Taliban, having those statues up would be more akin to leaving statues and artwork of Saddam Hussein in Iraq after the war, or statues and monuments to Hitler and other high ranking Nazis in Germany at the end of WWII.

 

I won't get into why the statues were erected in the first place. One can remember history and keep it from being "erased," without keeping statues placed for the wrong reasons. Erasing history can work both ways.

i guess we see the statue issue differently , thats OK we cant all agree on everything , 

i do agree with you on slavery "My point was that by 1860, slavery wasn't normal nor acceptable" that i agree witth you on entirely , 

 

i am a southerner by roots but in the same line of discussion ill add that we southerners did not all agree on everything either 

Edited February 17 by watab kid