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Posted

I participated in a monthly match today after a couple of months off due to weather and various other things.  On the first stage of the day I shot early so I could take over the timer half way through the stage.  When I took the timer, the first shooter walks up without a shotgun and says she does not shoot the shotgun.  I was a little bewildered, so I asked her what she does shoot.  She says she is shooting the Dale Evans category and just takes misses for the shotgun targets.

 

I started in SASS in 2020 and have participated in a bunch of monthly matches, state matches, regional, Nationals, and EOT.  I have never heard of this category.  The posse marshal had heard of the category, so we rolled with it.  When I got home from the match, I did a little research on this category.  I couldn't find any mention of it on the wire and nothing in the shooters handbook.

 

Who has heard of this category and can tell me the rules?  I assume this category is restricted to monthly matches at the match directors discretion.  She also said that no procedural penalty is given, only misses.

Posted

Is there a Roy Roger's category ?

21 years and never heard of such a thing. 

No problem with someone not shooting the shotgun but they should be given a P and the misses. It does effect the over all standing by not having to transition to shotgun and the time it would have taken to shoot the shotgun. Only in club matches is okay. 

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Posted

We had a young lady shoot without a shotgun several years ago. Nothing physical with her but she said that her neck would ache for a few days after shooting it. Didn’t have a “category” for her just said “glad you are here” and gave her the misses. She showed up for 3-4 matches IIRC. Nice person who did what she could. 
Pleased to accommodate her. 
Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:
Gateway Kid

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Posted

 Never heard of it. When my two youngest boys started out they sometimes elected to skip the shotgun and took the misses. They were rarely given P’s, but were ok with it when they were.

Posted

I recall seeing that “unofficial” category mentioned on a club’s website.

 

”Failing to attempt to fire a firearm” is a Procedural.  Should it apply to this situation in which the “attempt” would be futile?  I would be inclined to assess the misses only, but I could be wrong.

Posted

Never seen that class name before but bet it was named on a local or regional basis.  Have seen people not shoot the shotgun before due to a physical condition and they were only assesed missed but were asked to move to the location it was supposed to be shot at within the sequence of the stage.

Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

... Only in club matches is okay. 

 

Found it listed on the 2021 Arkansas State Championship form:

 

https://www.oldfortgunclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2021-hob-packet-1.pdf

 

Presenting this information without opinion. Someone from there might be able to add details on scoring.

Edited by John Kloehr
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Posted

Any Match Director may utilize any category they wish.  It does not need to be listed in the Shooter Handbook.  Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter existed at many levels, including Regional, for several years before being adopted as an Official SASS category.

We have a “Just for Fun” category at our club shoots for anyone who wants to just play the game and isn’t concerned about score.  All safety rules apply but style etc. is open.  No prize given.

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Posted

First remember the part about NOT BEING A HARD A**.

 

It is a local thing and goes by many different names. I've seen variations of it at several different clubs over the years. I also shoot with some clubs that offer a Lone Ranger category. Participant(s) only shoot their pistols because they are physically unable to shoulder long guns. The shooter in question has shot CAS almost since it started but age and failing health means they are no longer able to shoot long guns.

 

The clubs that have this category created it so that the person in question could come out and enjoy a day outdoors with good friends. Some days the shooter makes it through the whole match and sometimes they can only shoot a few stages. We don't care. We are just glad they show up.

 

As for overall results WHO CARES. The shooter doesn't and neither do the other members of the clubs.  What maters is that we are bringing joy to a person's life and in turn they bring a little sunshine into our lives..

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Posted

The Illowa Irregulars - Quad Cities area of Iowa and Illinois - for several years have used the categories "Working Cowboy" and "Working Cowgirl," which are no shotgun categories. They were added to our list in response to a number of our regular shooters having had shoulder surgery, and I think, one case of a recent cataract surgery. Scoring here is done electronically, and our scoring guru has it set up that we can pull scores for those categories from the overall scoring, so they stand alone as separate categories.  Since folks in those categories compete only with themselves, we do not assign either misses or "P's" for the shotgun targets - no point.  Since most "regular" shooters are very much interested in overall scoring, these are not well-supported categories here - there haven't been more than a few times where we actually had two shooters enter the category at an event - but it costs us nothing to keep them on the books as an option to accommodate folks who might have a physical limitation, while at the same time not affecting the overall scoring one way or the other.

 

CS

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Posted

As long as they are willing to move to the "Shotgun" Position and shout "Bang, Bang" the appropriate number of times, I don't see a problem with it, just have the shooter smack the timer at the end if the Shotgun is the last firearm.  :P

 

As stated above, it keeps them from creating issues in the other categories, especially if the shotgun is last, but allows them to play the game.  We have done that in the past for folks that have had neck/shoulder issues, etc, recent surgeries, etc.  At a State or Above match it could certainly cause issues, but at a local, monthly, match, just let them play. 

 

 

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Posted
11 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

with someone not shooting the shotgun but they should be given a P and the misses….


No P if their category permits it.  In this case “Dale Evan” evidently did.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Matthew Duncan said:


No P if their category permits it.  In this case “Dale Evan” evidently did.

Will if I shoot Roy Roger's at a state match I probably would win overall. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

Will if I shoot Roy Roger's at a state match I probably would win overall. 

Roughly 20 seconds of shotgun penalty’s times 10 stages equals 3.3 minutes.  If I could still win a State with a handicap of over three minutes, sure does say much of the other Shooters abilities!  🤔

Edited by Matthew Duncan
Correct autocorrect.
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Posted
7 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Roughly 20 seconds of shotgun penalty’s times 10 stages equals 3.3 minutes.  If I could still win a State with a handicap of over three minutes, sure does say much of the other Shooters abilities!  🤔

Your right i wasn't thinking as usual. I didn't take in account for the penalties.

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Posted

The Roy Rogers category shoots all three guns but you have to sing a Western song before the last gun. Five second bonus if the rest of the posse does harmony.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

First remember the part about NOT BEING A HARD A**.

 

It is a local thing and goes by many different names. I've seen variations of it at several different clubs over the years. I also shoot with some clubs that offer a Lone Ranger category. Participant(s) only shoot their pistols because they are physically unable to shoulder long guns. The shooter in question has shot CAS almost since it started but age and failing health means they are no longer able to shoot long guns.

 

The clubs that have this category created it so that the person in question could come out and enjoy a day outdoors with good friends. Some days the shooter makes it through the whole match and sometimes they can only shoot a few stages. We don't care. We are just glad they show up.

 

As for overall results WHO CARES. The shooter doesn't and neither do the other members of the clubs.  What maters is that we are bringing joy to a person's life and in turn they bring a little sunshine into our lives..

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

First remember the part about NOT BEING A HARD A**.

 

As I said, we rolled with it.  We did not prevent her from shooting or give her a hard time about it.  She completed the match and seemed to have a good time.  I'm just merely asking for details about a category I'd never hear mention of until yesterday.

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Posted

My 2 cents, and not necessarily approved by our club president, just my opinion.

 

As a club we have to be aware of our "customers", active cowboy shooters, newbies, aging and/or impaired shooters.

At a monthly:

If we needed to have a "Dale Evans" category, or maybe even a "22LR" category or any other number of scenarios which could be required to accomodate a shooter's NEEDS, we should do it as long as it's safe. To be fair to "SASS" shooters these "categories" should not be scored, they could not be the match winner. To be included in scoring you would have to meet the minimum requirements of guns, ammo, etc.

At higher level events (state, regional, annuals) no accomodations should be made that do not meet the minimum SASS requirements.

 

With SASS membership and participation seemingly waning, let's find ways to bring people in, not reasons to exclude them!

 

 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Joe Cross, SASS #13848 L said:

Participant(s) only shoot their pistols because they are physically unable to shoulder long guns.

At Wartrace we have a Josey Wales Category for anyone who wants to try it. Our rules are different than some since we are trying to accommodate those who can't shoulder a long gun. We use 5 pistols, 2 for pistols, 2 for rifle and 1 for shotgun. Shotgun targets have to be hit but don't have to go down. All pistols can be shot 2-handed or duelist. We have some that like to shoot it just because it's offered. One plus is you don't lose any brass.

 

Randy

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Posted

I have heard of Outlaw, Josey Wales, Tom Horn etc. Our annual match we offer Tom Horn. Single shot or lever, BP or smokeless all big bore calibers. About 30% of our shooters shoot these categories.

 

I'll stir the pot.  Going  to EOT or the like is a great experience.  I never thought I'd win. But shooting with some of the nations best was an experience. So someone wants to shoot EOT but can't shoot a shotgun. At the end of the day its 4 minutes +/- of penalties.  There is no way they would be in contention for a some bling.  Let them shoot.  Same for someone in a wheelchair with someone assisting them.  For many folk its the fun factor.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

Your right i wasn't thinking as usual. I didn't take in account for the penalties.

Just wishful thinking on your part. LOL

 

TM

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Posted

Do they have a “Pat Brady, Roy’s comical sidekick” category? I could do that one. 😬

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Posted
2 hours ago, Chickamauga Slim said:

My 2 cents, and not necessarily approved by our club president, just my opinion.

 

As a club we have to be aware of our "customers", active cowboy shooters, newbies, aging and/or impaired shooters.

At a monthly:

If we needed to have a "Dale Evans" category, or maybe even a "22LR" category or any other number of scenarios which could be required to accomodate a shooter's NEEDS, we should do it as long as it's safe. To be fair to "SASS" shooters these "categories" should not be scored, they could not be the match winner. To be included in scoring you would have to meet the minimum requirements of guns, ammo, etc.

At higher level events (state, regional, annuals) no accomodations should be made that do not meet the minimum SASS requirements.

 

With SASS membership and participation seemingly waning, let's find ways to bring people in, not reasons to exclude them!

 

 

 

^^^ This times 10, and very well said. We need to find ways to bring new, and/or even occasional, shooters into CAS, especially at the local level. We don't have to turn things upside down and we don't have to make it so that it takes any more time for the average shooter to complete a stage. We just have to be open minded, and maybe a bit creative. The more people we can get involved in CAS, the longer the sport will be around for all to enjoy.

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Posted

If the local Club and Local Match Director give "Dale Evans" the OK and exempt the Shotgun, I see it as a separate "category" and would assess NO penalties and NO misses and the lady would finish FIRST in her "category."  I really don't see a problem with it.  I shot "Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter" for years without an official SASS recognition.  Give it a rest.  It's no big deal.

 

PLUS ONE for EL Sobrante Kid

Posted
3 hours ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

At Wartrace we have a Josey Wales Category for anyone who wants to try it. Our rules are different than some since we are trying to accommodate those who can't shoulder a long gun. We use 5 pistols, 2 for pistols, 2 for rifle and 1 for shotgun. Shotgun targets have to be hit but don't have to go down. All pistols can be shot 2-handed or duelist. We have some that like to shoot it just because it's offered. One plus is you don't lose any brass.

 

Randy

 

In this particular shooters case, they no longer have the stamina to shoot Josey Wales or Outlaw.

 

We came up with the Lone Ranger category because we wanted them to enjoy shooting for as long as possible.

 

As a side note in their younger days they were not only fast but deadly accurate. We have lost count of the number of clean matches shot before their eyesight started to fail.    

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