Cowboy gun mods are what exactly?

[DukeSoprano]

I am new here and have not shot a SASS match yet. I have all the guns I need and reload everything except shotgun. I did buy 10 boxes of Winchester low recoil, low noise #8 and at local gun shop. I have shot USPSA, ICORE and Defensive pistol matches for years.

I have worked on guns for years and have done trigger jobs on more S&W double action revolvers then I can remember.

 

Ok, there is kind of my background which leads me to my question.

 

From what I gather, all 3 of your types of guns have been modified in some way and most all of the post mention sending your guns to someone for an action job.

I would just like to understand all the mods and then see what I can do myself. 

 

So correct me or add to what I have in my head.

 

Revolvers, action job? replace hammers with lower ones to they are easier to cock?

Different springs, again easier to cock but you have to use Federal primers. (Which is what I have to use now for my ICORE revolvers)

Maybe check all the internal parts for burrs?

Anything else?

 

Rifles: I do not know much about them so I am guessing springs and smoothing out inturnels to make action of the lever easier, faster, shorter. And a lighter trigger?

 

Shotguns: I think I remember shooting a shotgun 40 years ago, thats about it. I have a older Stoeger Coach gun now.

Mods? Making the release lever easier to open? Smoothing the hinge for faster opening? Chamfer the barrels to faster reloading? Honing the barrels for faster ejecting? Trigger jobs on Shotguns?

 

My Rifle is a Miroku Winchester in 38 Special, I had read a post that it may not be legal due to the factory short stroke may be too short?

 

I know I will hear, just send them off to __________, but one of my favorite things to do is work on guns.

 

Thank you for any advise,

Duke

 

[Windy City Kid]

Yes to everything you said. YouTube has TONS of easy mods or explanations of things you can do yourself. If you have the tools, many can be done by you. I preferred to have a smith do the mods due to their experience. I’m fairly new to this and have learned, just because you have a race gun, it doesn’t make you faster. It just makes me miss faster. 

[Tyrel Cody]

Welcome.

 

Your rifle(assuming 1873) is legal for SASS, possibly not for NCOWS. 

 

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

14 minutes ago, DukeSoprano said:

Revolvers look pretty good. You may want to look into removing the transfer bars if you have Rugers, as that is about the only real failure point. It will require some advanced welding work so if that is a skill you have it might be worthwhile. There are other things that could be done, such as short strokes, but unless you have a specific reason to do so probably not necessary at this time. Also you start getting into additional expenses for the parts. 

You said you have a Miroku rifle, which out of the box really just needs to be shot a lot. The few I have worked on didn’t really need much polishing either but that is up to you. I personally prefer a larger front sight, but that is old age talking not necessity. BTW perfectly legal in SASS but I don’t think NCOWS allows them because of the factory short stroke. 
Shotgun, especially Stoeger needs hinge area polished, the locking lug deburred and may need reprofiled if not perfectly flat. You will want to shorten the safety rod a little so the safety works but doesn’t come on automatically. Many cut the release spring but unless the cocking levers are retimed this is a sure way to have problems down the road. Common issues are gun slightly opening upon firing, thus not firing second barrel and in extreme cases the barrel lug cracking and/or breaking off. Some have stogers that last a hundred years, others like me before I switched to SKB’s broke several in short order. 
You are asking the right question, now head on out to a match, meet some people who will most likely let you shoot their guns and proceed from there!

All the Best

Gateway Kid

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

Welcome aboard, Duke.  Their are different definitions of what constitutes an "action job".  Anything from lightening springs to altering the locking bolts on revolvers or, short stroking lever action rifles, including lighter carriers.  I suggest you look up some of the more well known smiths for more information.  One site that has some detail is Munden Enterprises (bobmunden.com), which lists different levels of alterations.  As far as the Miroku rifles go, they are legal as they come from the factory.  They have, what could be called a first generation short stroke and they're pretty smooth without any work.  No after market parts are available for them with the exception of what Shotgun Boogie (sbgwllc.com) has available, which can smooth them out a bit.  Most folks send their guns to a smith since the work, while not very difficult, does require hand fitting and a level of experience most shooters don't have.  Shotguns are a different story.  Gateway Kid's comments are appropriate.  Good luck.

Tex

 

[Sarge]

Welcome. Yes, there are mods for every type of firearm we use.  To get started, really no need to do any mods.  Hook up with a local club.  Cowboys will be happy for you to try a lot of different types of equipment before you start spending.  Everyone has different ideas on what they like.  For example, you mention adding lowered hammers.  That may or may not be necessary depending on personal preference and even the category you decide to compete in.  Have fun.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Just one little piece of advice from me:  if you work on them yeowndangself, be very careful with your Dremel, regardless of your

gunsmithing skills.

 

Remember, an amateurs gunsmithing skills using a Dremel is a professional gunsmiths best business client.  

 

Good luck and best regards.

 

..........Widder

 

[DukeSoprano]

I should of mentioned Miroku Winchester in 38 Special, is an 1866

Revolvers include a 1981 Colt, 2 Uberti's, American Western Arms Thunderer, and a Custom Andy Horvath "Little Ruger" Blackhawk. All in 45 Colt

Also a Taylor Remington conversion in 38 Special

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

as you are just starting out , I would suggest you do NOT do anything yet other that shoot em 

 

 just my opinion and worth what ya paid for it 

 

  Chickasaw 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Don't do any modifications until you have attended a few shoots. 

Check ALL screws for tightness after each shoot

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

You can avoid reloading shotgun shells if you please.  Especially if you can tolerate a bit of recoil.  I saw a world champion at EOT shooting Remington Gun Clubs.  If you think you might start reloading shotgun shells, buy Remington STS Low Recoil shells (they are not as soft shooting as AA low noise, low recoil shells) and save the hulls.  They reload nicely.  You could sell the hulls if you never reload.  Some reload AA low noise low recoil hulls too.  I prefer not to for CAS.

 

Rifles can be short stroked.  There are parts kits to do so.  I defer to others on details.  Stoeger shotguns are used frequently in CAS.  I have a few and they have served me well.  All have been modified for competition.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

While every one of my match guns have been gunsmithed, I caution you on spending a lot of money on action work before you have some experience shooting matches.  it's a costly slippery slope and only time will tell what guns you will settle on.  Shoot what you have for now and see what other shooters are using.   You may decide you want to get a whole different set of guns or calibers. 

[Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826]

6 hours ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

as you are just starting out , I would suggest you do NOT do anything yet other that shoot em 

 

 just my opinion and worth what ya paid for it 

 

  Chickasaw 

As much as I hate to say it he is right this time.

[Last Call Saul]

I might say things that are against the grain and common trend here, but I really enjoy a well-working and optimized slicked-up gun - it keeps me focused on improving myself and not worrying about hardware.  So, if you have money to spare, slick up your weapons as early as possible, and don't wait for the match; get it done to the degree you can afford. Everything I have - has been worked up right away, before I even used it by a gunsmith (I don't have skills).

 

I got Uberti revolvers, even slicked up right away, but traded them for a set of Ruger SASS NMVs, had them worked up, and never looked back, and I know they will not let me down.  I got my rifles done with the lighter carriers, mag tube inserts, larger sights, action job, best short stroke kits, and new springs, and they work like a song. If you have the money, don't waste your time before you get it done.  Life is too short to deal with anything but the best stuff if you can afford it. 

 

I started with cheap but slicked-up Baikal for a year, but when I touched an SKB, I knew I had to have one. I had it sent to Johny Meadows before I even touched it, and I never looked back. This year, I've done the same with my backup rifle and shotgun—I got the best I could afford and had them done before receiving them from the seller. I am okay with being slower than my guns, but I hate being slowed down by my gear.

The same goes for leather, reloading equipment, buy once, cry once.

Edited February 2 by Last Call Saul

[Kid Rich]

Shoot a couple matches before you decide to alter your guns.

kR

[Rye Miles #13621]

14 hours ago, DukeSoprano said:

I should of mentioned Miroku Winchester in 38 Special, is an 1866

Revolvers include a 1981 Colt, 2 Uberti's, American Western Arms Thunderer, and a Custom Andy Horvath "Little Ruger" Blackhawk. All in 45 Colt

Also a Taylor Remington conversion in 38 Special

Andy Horvath is an amazing gunsmith, he just fixed a 73 Cimarron rifle for me.  I bet that “Little Ruger” by him is great! I’m lucky to live about 45 minutes from him. I’m about the bring another rifle to him as soon as I can get over there.

I agree with the crowd here, go shoot what you have and go from there! Welcome aboard🤠

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

Revolvers- either use the Ubertis or buy a match for one of the others. I would probably find a mate for the Colt.  Then, lighter springs and a brass front sight. Replacing the hammer is a matter of personal preference. My revolvers are about as customized as you can get, yet still have the original hammers.

 

Rifle - with a Miroku your options are limited as go fast parts aren’t as readily available. Shoot it as is or trade it in and get an Uberti which has plenty of aftermarket options. I would ditch the Miroku, buy an Uberti, replace all the springs, put in a Cowboys & Indians 5th Gen shortstroke, a bigger bead front sight, stainless magazine spring, lightened brass carrier, and some judicious polishing.

 

Shotgun - since it’s a Stoeger, chamfer, polish, disable auto safety, polish chambers and shoot, a lot. I would ditch the Stoeger, buy an SKB 100, cut the barrels, disable the safety, chamfer, polish, and try to copy all the work Fast Eddie does.
 

Those are the things I would do if I had your equipment and was handy.

 

Starting fresh without equipment and not being handy I would buy Ruger Single Sixes in 32 H&R and send them to Jimmy Spurs.

 

I would buy a straight stock Uberti 1873 in .357 with an 18 inch octagon barrel and send it to Lefty Wheeler.

 

I would buy an SKB 100 in 12 gauge and send it to Fast Eddie.

 

I would buy a rig from Rod Kibler.

 

I would buy a Rugged Gear gun cart from Scarlett.

 

I would buy a Dillon 750.

 

I would buy a Ponsness Warren 800+.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Starting fresh without equipment and not being handy I would buy Ruger Single Sixes in 32 H&R and send them to Jimmy Spurs.     $2,800

 

I would buy a straight stock Uberti 1873 in .357 with an 18 inch octagon barrel and send it to Lefty Wheeler.                  $2,200

 

I would buy an SKB 100 in 12 gauge and send it to Fast Eddie.               $1,800

 

I would buy a rig from Rod Kibler.                                                   $600

 

I would buy a Rugged Gear gun cart from Scarlett.                      $800

 

I would buy a Dillon 750.                                     $1,000+

 

I would buy a Ponsness Warren 800+.                $1,000

See.  I told you it was an expensive slippery slope.  Choose wisely.

[Shawnee Hills]

I am in agreement with Saul.  Your competition experience suggests that you'll eventually want to be making your way to the top of the score sheet.  Your experience has already shown you that, while slicked up guns won't automatically make you a top shooter, not having good equipment can definitely prevent you from being one.  Might as well start getting that 'go-fast' equipment squared away now so you can concentrate on running the stages.  Yes, getting geared up like you want will not be cheap but, having already been involved in a very competitive sport, you already know this.

 

Your biggest equipment challenge is likely to be your Miroku.  There are very little aftermarket parts available for those so short-stroking it will likely mean a trip to Cowboy Carty.  Alternatively, taking Bill Burt's advice is very sound.  So long as the inter workings and timing are understood, the Uberti rifles are very easy to work on by the end user.  Truth be told, there is very little that a mechanically inclined and handy shooter cannot do to improve the firearms used in this game.    

 

When I started in CAS, I wish someone had asked me what I wanted to get out of the game and what my goals were in terms of being competitive.  My answer would have been to, in order, have fun and make my way towards the top of the score sheet.  Very likely the equipment recommendations would have led to what I am running now (Jimmy Spurs Vaqueros, Uberti rifles running gen 5s, Fast Eddie SKBs, leather by Dan Persimmon, and Rugged Gear cart).  Yes, all of that adds up to a substantial investment but running good equipment is worth it to me.  As you already know, there's nothing worse in competition than stepping to the line wondering if your guns are going to work or not.

[John Kloehr]

Not that you really need to do more than binge watch the spaghetti westerns while cycling the action to break in a Miroku 1873, I do plan to lighten the safety lever spring on mine (in 44-40).

 

This thread is IMO (I am not a gunsmith) a very good writeup on slicking up a Miroku in .38 Special:

 

 

This member made the one thread and was never heard from again.

 

At one time, there was a short stroke kit from Pioneer, no longer made. I get a sense it did not hold up to competition use. One does come up every now and then in the classifieds.

Edited February 2 by John Kloehr

[Doc Moses]

One thing people are not mentioning is...back-ups. Shoot what you have. THEN replace when you find out what you really like. Keep what you have as a back up. For example the Miruku is a great rifle but the Ubertis have more options. Keep the Miruku as a back up.  It runs better than a stock Uberti as is then someday, maybe, buy an Uberti and spend the money making a new Uberti great.  The same for the Stoeger. Great little shotguns but there is no doubt there are better ones out there. If you get competitive, or just want too, someday get an SKB but don't buy 2!  Why have a 2k shot gun you do not use?  Keep the $500 Stoeger as a back up. (Yes, they have gone up. Thanks O'Biden)

The only thing I would modifiy of your existing guns right away is the Stoeger. I have had 2 new and they were completely unusable out of the box. Couldn't even open them and the auto safety was a constant issue. Make as few mods to it as possible and shoot it. Gateway Kids comments on the Stoeger are good. I added a drop of super glue to keep the safety switch off. If I ever want it back a little acetone and it will function again. Good luck and welcome to CAS!

Edited February 2 by Doc Moses

[Dapper Dave]

As a newbie myself, I would have to ask the most basic question - are you shooting CAS to win matches and bring home belt buckles, or are you going out to have fun? I only have two pistols, a Uberti Bords Head in .357 that I had slicked up by a local gunsmith WAY before I decided to try SASS, a Taylors and Co/Uberti Ranch Hand that seems to be perfect right out of the box, a Stoeger Coach gun that took a few hours of polishing with 600 grit and Mothers Mag in various places, but the rod to turn off the auto safety and replaced, (did NOT cut), the top lever spring with a lighter spring as the factory one was horrifically strong, and been having fun shooting it. The rifle is the one thing I haven't modified in any way...because it isn't mine. I'll be getting a Heritage 92 or Ruger Marlin, depending on available funds, and have my gunsmith buddy slick it up. 
You are WAY ahead of me when I started - my first match the only thing I had was that borrowed rifle, I had to borrow everything including the cart from the club. Still having great fun, and that's all I am looking for right now. I don't wear big belt buckles anyway. 

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

On 2/1/2025 at 11:15 AM, DukeSoprano said:

 

From what I gather, all 3 of your types of guns have been modified in some way and most all of the post mention sending your guns to someone for an action job.

 

I would just like to understand all the mods and then see what I can do myself. 

 

I know I will hear, just send them off to __________, but one of my favorite things to do is work on guns.

 

Thank you for any advise,

Duke

 

Okay me again!  

I have now read every post on this thread and it sparked a couple additional thoughts. 
1… as pointed out by a couple others top flight equipment costs. In today’s prices including reloading equipment $10K is not out of line. If I had $10K when I started that is likely the course I would’ve taken, but I didn’t, so took a different path. And if that much was required back then I would most likely have stuck with IPSC or IDPA. My IPSC gun was an Ed Brown unlimited and I traded it for some pretty good CAS guns but not near $10K. 
2… My goals haven’t changed since I started. I am highly motivated and competitive in everything I do. I enjoy the camaraderie of being with fellow cowboys/cowgirls for four hours or so on a weekend. Would better gear make a difference in where I placed? Maybe , maybe not. I have been in the top 16 shoot offs at WR (now EOT) and old EOT 6 times plus two others as an alternate. All of my gear is good but not $10K good. I no longer can do that but it is not gear holding me back. 
3… OP stated he liked working on his guns and learning what was going on inside, and while tuned race guns are certainly a pleasure to shoot, I also like to see what’s going on. I have always believed that hands on is the best way to learn. Some of the tuning tricks are very subtle, some are obvious and some differ from smith to smith. I have done the work on all my guns except for my SKB’s (thanks Johnny Meadows) for the last 14 years and while certainly not as slick as the top name gunsmiths, tuning is my hobby not my business. 
So to the OP, do you, spend what you can afford, ask lots of questions, take a little bit of advice from everyone you meet, know that some advice is worth exactly what you paid for it, (including my post), jump in to the game and enjoy yourself!

Regards

    
Gateway Kid

[DukeSoprano]

Thank you for all the replies, I am looking forward to seeing how all these guns function. I had a little free time today and figured out how to get one apart and actually managed to get it back together 😃 

[John Kloehr]

59 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

As a newbie myself, I would have to ask the most basic question - are you shooting CAS to win matches and bring home belt buckles, or are you going out to have fun?...

Seems a good point to add this...

 

I am out to improve every sport I shoot. I enjoy improving. I shoot in a lot of sports.

 

I did upgrade from a Maverick 88 to a Remington shotgun for 3-gun. I have also been moving from ARs to AKs just because they have character. The first upgrade improved my scores, the second is costing time. But the AK is a fun platform and I am on my second 7.62.

 

For steel challenge, I have finally improved to the point where the trigger on my bone-stock Ruger 10/22 has become a speed limit; I am on target but have not finished trigger reset. I will need to do a trigger job. My skill finally caught ups to the equipment.

 

For SASS, I am still needing to either fix or trade my Stoeger SxS, shooting a '97 for now and still having a blast. My Miroku .44-40 1873... The lever safety spring is too strong and this is costing me time. Fixing it will not make a winner, but it would be more fun to shoot if I did not have to wrap my thumb over the stock to get it to fire!

 

I do have an Uberti 1873 in .38 Special, it is an Evil Roy slicked by Grimes. I'm still having to much fun as it is, even dog slow with the '97 and the Miroku to worry about it. Fun first, speed second, and when good enough address equipment problems.

 

But this assumes the equipment is at least decent to begin with. When first starting out, trying guns, and shopping, I was at the Atlanta NRA convention and handled a Rossi 1892 (SASS legal;). Sure, the furniture had lousy grain and the finish was not pretty, but that was not the deciding factor. Maybe this example had been handled too much or developed a problem, but there was no way that gun was going to be fun to handle. For what I figured it would take to slick it, a stock Uberti at the higher price was a bargain.

 

If shooting for fun, there is a sweet range somewhere in the middle. This may be different for every shooter. If the gun is not fun or easily fixable, replace it. If the gun is the best available but your skills are not up to it, then a waste of money other than bragging rights (like my Evil Roy by Grimes LOL).

 

But like me using AKs rather than ARs, a Miroku in .44-40 instead of a faster gun, a bone-stack 10/22 against shooters who have spent $1000s against my $200. We are all out there just having fun.

 

I am tempted to solve my Stoeger problem with a slicked SKB but there is no way it will buy me a win. I just need to figure out if it is worth the fun of running it. I'm having fun just getting the fundamentals right on a '97. Plus everyone else gets entertainment value watching me try to be somewhat fluid.

 

Or in short, crappy equipment will just cause frustration and great equipment does not buy speed.

 

I'm hoping to shoot again this weekend, I'll run the '97 and my Miroku with the excessively strong safety spring. My revolvers? A pair of Ubertis chambered in .44 Special but I'm running .44 Russian as a "gamer." They seem fine, I am nowhere near fast enough them to notice any problem with them. I like the "manual" nature of this sport, spent cases do not simply eject with fresh rounds chambering (semi)auto-magically. I have to make it happen on the clock. Don't know if I will ever make that happen three times faster. Yes, I'm that slow...

Edited February 3 by John Kloehr
AR Otto, not ER!

[DukeSoprano]

14 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Andy Horvath is an amazing gunsmith, he just fixed a 73 Cimarron rifle for me.  I bet that “Little Ruger” by him is great! I’m lucky to live about 45 minutes from him. I’m about the bring another rifle to him as soon as I can get over there.

I agree with the crowd here, go shoot what you have and go from there! Welcome aboard🤠

 

 

[Rip Snorter]

Looks like an old time slip gun.  Elmer said you could do slip gun or regular practice, not both. Interesting to try, though.