Bullet casting

[Whitey James]

Casting has been on my radar for several years but I have yet to take the plunge. 

I have a few questions for the casters out there.

1) Is it enough of a cost savings to have to buy the supplies (I have zero casting equipment) than just buy pre-cast bullets?

2) where do you get your lead?

3) Do you recommend starting with ladle pouring or jump right into the electric pots?

4) do you have a brand mold preference and why?

 

Thanks

Edited February 1 by Whitey James

[Dapper Dave]

One place that will answer all of your questions plus a great place to buy both equipment and bullet lead is castboolits.gunloads.com 

It's easy and fun, but has it's own safety demands. I've been casting about 15 years.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

The only bullets I have cast myself were Big Lube bullets for black powder shooting. Those are more expensive to purchase including shipping compared to regular smokeless bullets. I wouldn't even attempt to cast for my smokeless shooting. It was satisfying casting and loading those bullets though.

 

A lot would depend on your supply or ability to find lead cheaply these days if you don't already have it. It's a huge chore to most to cast  but some people really enjoy doing it. Same for reloading in general.

[Dapper Dave]

I should clarify that I get my lead locally, as I am lucky enough to have a Doe Run secondary smelter right down the road from me. Don't buy it through online retailers like MidwayUSA.com, but get it from sellers at CastBoolits. The retailers charge very dear for bullet metal.

I don't like ladies LADLES, (I like the ladies JUST fine, mind you! 😁  ), I started with a Lee 10 pound production pot, and I'm still using it. 

Don't forget safety equipment, face shield, gloves, long sleeve shirt - lead cools VERY fast, but if you get splashed, it will hurt.

I use Lee molds because they are cheap and very functional.  I've had Lee molds last many years.

Edited February 1 by Dapper Dave
Holy cowski, THAT was a bad typo!!!

[DeaconKC]

+1 on the Lee casting equipment. If you are doing low volume the ladle is quicker than expected. I use mine for old surplus guns and black powder stuff. For my Cowboy Shooting, I get my bullets from a local shooter/caster.

[Cholla]

I prefer Ideal/Lyman molds, but Lee works as well, and their six-gang molds stock up bullets fast. I get my lead from friends who know I cast and at the local scrap yard. I prefer the RCBS bottom pour 20-pound pot. I start with my molds on a Goodwill-bought hot plate for the pre-heat and then usually keep several molds running to keep them from overheating.

[Jackalope]

I cast my first bullets when I was about 11 years old, over 50 years ago.  (A really cool brother-in-law let me help. 😁)  What I've learned since then include these thoughts:

 

1.  Casting, sizing and lubing bullets takes time.  Time = money.  How you value your time/money situation is up to you.  (You will also benefit from a lubrisizer and dies.)

2.  I've used wheel weights, reclaimed lead from ranges and a few other sources that were free (at the time).  Most recently, I managed to get a fairly good size chuck of boat keel in a trade.  My casting material has been very inexpensive.

3.  Get an electric pot.  Lee furnaces work ok.

4.  I prefer Accurate molds, Lyman molds, RCBS molds in that order.  Not a fan of Lee molds...they are too fragile, IMHO.

 

Final thing for your consideration:  I've been a black powder shooter for at least 15 years.  I've not found many commercially cast bullets that hold enough lube to suit me, so I cast my own for .38, 44-40, and .45 Colt.  When it comes to bullets for my bride and her preference for smokeless powder, I use commercially cast bullets.

 

Your mileage may vary.

Regards,

Jackalope

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

@Dapper Dave Dave, you need to edit that one letter in your last response above or people are going to think you are weird!   I'll bet auto-correct did it.  I'm not quoting it here so the evidence will disappear. 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

1 hour ago, Whitey James said:

Casting has been on my radar for several years but I have yet to take the plunge. 

I have a few questions for the casters out there.

1) Is it enough of a cost savings to have to buy the supplies (I have zero casting equipment) than just buy pre-cast bullets?

2) where do you get your lead?

3) Do you recommend starting with ladle pouring or jump right into the electric pots?

4) do you have a brand mold preference and why?

 

Thanks

I know where you can get plenty of range lead!

 

Randy

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

I prefer to buy commercial cast bullets when available - especially for coated bullets.  I cast what I can't buy like Big Lube black powder bullets.  I also cast round balls for cap and ball revolvers as commercial balls are overpriced.  During the pandemic some cast bullets were unavailable, so I cast what my wife and I needed.  I have molds for everything we shoot.

 

I have an electric furnace I bought used.  I don't think I would like a ladle.  I prefer iron molds over aluminum that is easily damaged.  

 

Some of our local casters use range lead.  During the late summer monsoon season intense thunderstorms wash lots of dirt off our berms exposing bullets.  They just take a bucket and pick up the exposed bullets.  If they get caught digging into the berms they get sent packing.

[Tom Bullweed]

I cast bullets some 25 years ago when I shot bp rifle matches.

I started casting again about 3 years ago: .313, .358, .401, .430, .452, .309 (for .300 Blackout) and .454 round balls.

Lee 4-lb pot for $40. 

I use tumble-lube Lee molds so I don't have to size.  I can mold about 150 per hour with a two-cavity mold or 300 per hour with a six-cavity mold.

I get about half of my lead off the ground at the range.  I can usually pick up 15-20 pounds in 15 minutes.

I get the rest of my lead from work and estate sales.

I use 50/50 solder for my tin.

 

[Griff]

I started casting for muzzle-loading rifles... around 50 years ago... then found a source for the size round balls I needed... then sold that rifle and got another, and have never found a commercial source for that size round ball.  I cast those bullets that aren't available from the commercial casters.  My favorite molds are Accurate, RCBS, Lyman, Ideal when found and for my BPCR, Hoch.  I have a few Lee molds, but they were acquired thru Cast Boolits group buys for 6-gang molds.  I have two pots, a 25 lb Lyman after my original Lyman gave up the ghost after 40+ years of use and a 20 lb Lee that I use for my pure lead round ball casting... that way I don't have to empty a pot to change materials.   I wish I'd known about PID controllers a lot sooner than I did.  

[Sam Sackett]

I’m gonna throw out a couple of thoughts. You didn’t mention how much you shoot. Ot how many calibers. Makes quite a difference. 
 

If you only plan on shooting one match a month at your local club, buy your bullets. If you have many calibers, but don’t shoot too much with any of them, buy your bullets. So, if you don’t shoot a lot, buy them. 
 

BUT….   If you shoot a lot, it pays to cast your own. 
 

Costs for a basic setup:

lead pot - Lee 10# unit is around $80

mold - 2 cavity molds are around $30

lead - decent bullet lead will be about 10-12 bhn in hardness. Like clip on wheel weights. If you can buy if already cleaned, it’s around $2 per pound

you will need some type of lube. Cheapest is the Lee tumble lube. A $10 bottle will cot a couple thousand bullets. If you decide to use a beeswax based lube you will have to either pan lube (slow and messy) or buy a lube sizer and lube. RCBS lube sizer runs about $200. Lube sticks runn$5 - $10 each. 
 

Buying 125 grain 38 cal bullets will cost you somewhere around $50 for 500. That might include shipping. 
 

Not trying to scare you away from casting. I cast all my bullets for SASS and enjoy it. I am retired and have the time. I also shot quite a bit. 
Hope this helps. 
 

Sam Sackett 

 

[Nickle]

I've been casting since I was a teenager and that was along time ago.

I can't imagine not casting.  I don't get or want powder coating. 

1 endless supply of bullets 

2 I don't have to worry about a company  changing a bullet or availability . 

3 price of bullets.  You don't really save because you just end up shooting more.

4 Alot of the gun's are antique and rare so casting or custom molds only option. 

5 performance, lots of options from paper patch to tapered bullets to whatever you dream up.

For black powder and  cowboy action this could simply be bigger grease groves. You can also change your hardness with your cast bullets which can make difference depending on what you are doing. 

6 casting is like loading cartridges.  Part of the enjoyment.  I usually load or cast while listening to Hickok45 or 11 bang bang or something similar.  Right now I'm listening to a Trump Audiobook while I cast and load.

7 antique molds. I enjoy using old original antique molds. My best 30 cal is a old ideal mold.  Heck alot of my loading stuff is antique.  It's hard for me to explain but I enjoy my old stuff better than what I could replace it with. 

8 you need a cheap source of casting material. Think almost free. I stocked up years ago and people laughed at me but I'm getting through it and starting to look for more.

[Choctaw Jack]

I've been casting my own for a few years. I started scrounging lead and , luckily, was able to gather enough to probably last the rest of my shooting career ( but I still don't pass up an opportunity to acquire more if it's cheap and easy to do so).

As has been already stated  if you have to buy lead at market price , you most likely won't amortization your start up costs for many, many thousands of rounds.

Personally ,I enjoy the process.

And I prefer powder coating my bullets, for a lot of reasons.

But, to each his own.

Choctaw

[Nickle]

8 hours ago, Choctaw Jack said:

I've been casting my own for a few years. I started scrounging lead and , luckily, was able to gather enough to probably last the rest of my shooting career ( but I still don't pass up an opportunity to acquire more if it's cheap and easy to do so).

As has been already stated  if you have to buy lead at market price , you most likely won't amortization your start up costs for many, many thousands of rounds.

Personally ,I enjoy the process.

And I prefer powder coating my bullets, for a lot of reasons.

But, to each his own.

Choctaw

About the only new thing that I have started doing is water quenching.  This is more about faster and easier than hardness. 

There probably nothing wrong with powder coating.  It might even be better?

I'm already set up with several Lyman luber sizers, sizing dies.top punches and lots of lubes so for me I just don't see a reason to change but that's the way  I am about everything.  Heck I'm still driving my same trucks that I had 40 years ago. 

Edited February 1 by Nickle
Spell check keeps changing what I write

[Dapper Dave]

13 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

@Dapper Dave Dave, you need to edit that one letter in your last response above or people are going to think you are weird!   I'll bet auto-correct did it.  I'm not quoting it here so the evidence will disappear. 

Oh, heck no, that's one worth preserving! I may not be much, but I can always be an example to others of what NOT to do! 🤣

[Choctaw Jack]

Dave,

I started powdercoating because I didn't like the mess of lubing. The bullet lube seemed to get everywhere. On my guns, my hands my equipment ( I was using Alox because I didnt have a Lubrisizer).

I watched a couple of videos and decided to give it a try, and I never looked back.

My whole set-up stays cleaner now.

No residue on my gear, and my guns are much easier to clean.

It does take a little more time but I  feel it is well worth it.

As far as water quenching goes, I quenched for a long time. But after doing some reading I decided that it really wasn't needed in my case.

I use straight wheel weights in my casting, and I feel that they are plenty hard enough as is. Some casters, who I believe are much smarter than me, will tell you that in our sport a softer bullet is better than a harder one. Softer bullets conform to the bore (obdurate) better , and prevents flame cutting of the bullet, in turn preventing leading of the barrel.

Between powder coating and using the wheelweight mix I seldom ever have much lead residue in my barrels.

Of course, YMMV

Choctaw

[Dapper Dave]

Powder coating is the way to go. It is so easy and cheap - these were baked in a $5 Goodwill toaster oven. Smokes over at castboolits has a really nice selection of powder pretty cheap, just ordered some Signal Blue from him for me and my gunsmith buddy. I still have an unopened bottle of Lee Liquid Alox around here somewhere, if it hasn't congealed into a solid block. 

I have never water quenched, always towel dropped. Probably because it is the easiest way to cast. 

Casting to me is another hobby that help feeds my two other hobbies, reloading and shooting. Of course, now that I JUST got into shotgun reloading, I'm gonna need some various buckshot molds. 

Edit to add, you are very right - I've had shooting sessions with nothing but powder coated bullets and the barrel looks almost as nice at the end than when I started! They tend to scour the bore somewhat. 

Edited February 1 by Dapper Dave

[Eyesa Horg]

Be careful that the powder coat you choose doesn't have silica in it. I read on this wire a while ago,that some colors do.

[Three Foot Johnson]

When I started casting about 45 years ago, I got all my lead free. As mentioned above, it's $2 - $3/pound now. In August of 2021, I was able to buy 2000 pounds for fifty cents a pound. I've used bottom pour pots from day one - today I have a pair of RCBS Pro Melt furnaces, one with alloyed lead and one with pure lead. I currently have 100 different bullet molds, with a few duplicates among them. A lot of Lee's, Lyman, and RCBS, some from custom or semi-custom mold makers, aluminum, brass, and iron, and a couple from companies nobody has ever heard of - Hardline Industries and P-C are two that come to mind. I use Lyman 450 Lubri sizers to size & lube. I like powder coated bullets, but I'm not going to spend the time to coat 5000 bullets. Anymore, I'd just as soon buy bullets as cast them, but there are some that just aren't available.

Edited February 1 by Three Foot Johnson

[Dapper Dave]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Be careful that the powder coat you choose doesn't have silica in it. I read on this wire a while ago, that some colors do.

Never heard that in all the time I've spent at castboolits. I'll ask. Do you know why someone put out that particular warning?

[Nickle]

2 hours ago, Choctaw Jack said:

Dave,

I started powdercoating because I didn't like the mess of lubing. The bullet lube seemed to get everywhere. On my guns, my hands my equipment ( I was using Alox because I didnt have a Lubrisizer).

I watched a couple of videos and decided to give it a try, and I never looked back.

My whole set-up stays cleaner now.

No residue on my gear, and my guns are much easier to clean.

It does take a little more time but I  feel it is well worth it.

As far as water quenching goes, I quenched for a long time. But after doing some reading I decided that it really wasn't needed in my case.

I use straight wheel weights in my casting, and I feel that they are plenty hard enough as is. Some casters, who I believe are much smarter than me, will tell you that in our sport a softer bullet is better than a harder one. Softer bullets conform to the bore (obdurate) better , and prevents flame cutting of the bullet, in turn preventing leading of the barrel.

Between powder coating and using the wheelweight mix I seldom ever have much lead residue in my barrels.

Of course, YMMV

Choctaw

So I started water quenching for two reasons.  Its faster.  I can do more bullets in less time because I don't have to frig around with towels or be worried as much about being careful not to damage bullets when I drop them out of the mold.

2 . Another advantage might be wheel weights are getting scarce.

If I'm using straight lead I'm probably gaining a bit of hardness without adding probably expensive alloys.

My current stash of lead ,tin and wheelweights is from 30 years ago.

I'm not really sure yet how I'm going to replace it or what is available and at what cost. 

How comes you just didn't buy a Lyman 450 lubersizer? I've tried panning my lubes years ago and it is a messy way.

I used to make my own different bullet lubes as well but I have  a bunch of alox and also that black powder cartridge lubes that the sharps guys in Montana used to sell years ago.

[Eyesa Horg]

24 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

Never heard that in all the time I've spent at castboolits. I'll ask. Do you know why someone put out that particular warning?

It was a thread talking about coatings and using powder coat as opposed to hytek. I just seem to remember (that's odd in itself) that there was mention of at least one color that has silicates in it. The warning being that it would actually cause barrel wear. Maybe I'm full of sewage!

[Choctaw Jack]

1 hour ago, Nickle said:

So I started water quenching for two reasons.  Its faster.  I can do more bullets in less time because I don't have to frig around with towels or be worried as much about being careful not to damage bullets when I drop them out of the mold.

2 . Another advantage might be wheel weights are getting scarce.

If I'm using straight lead I'm probably gaining a bit of hardness without adding probably expensive alloys.

My current stash of lead ,tin and wheelweights is from 30 years ago.

I'm not really sure yet how I'm going to replace it or what is available and at what cost. 

How comes you just didn't buy a Lyman 450 lubersizer? I've tried panning my lubes years ago and it is a messy way.

I used to make my own different bullet lubes as well but I have  a bunch of alox and also that black powder cartridge lubes that the sharps guys in Montana used to sell years ago.

Wheel weights are already alloyed

With other metals to make them harder.

Pure lead is much softer than wheel weights ( even the stick ons are harder than pure lead, but much).

The Lyman #2 is something like 20:2:1 , lead, tin, and antimoy.

The reason I didn't buy a Lubrisizer is simple: cost .

At the time a complete set up for a lubrisze was ,for me at the time, a financial stretch.

A bottle of Lee Alox and a recycled whipped topping container was pretty affordable. A Lee sizer die was less than $20.

And to answer Eysa's question, some of the cheaper DIY powder coating powder ( HF) was reportedly high in silicate, which has the effect of running sand paper down your bore.

I source my PC powder locally. My local powder coating shops will sell powder at a very nice price, especially if they have remnants of batches they no longer have use for. There are lots of online sources for powder . Automotive speed shops seem to have an unlimited 

array of colors.

All this is IMHO

Choctaw

[Dapper Dave]

92/6/2 is certified bullet metal being sold at Seafab right down the street from me. REALLY nice people here.  92% lead, 6% antimony, 2& tin. That's the old Lyman #2. Nope, it isn't my bad.
Seafab Metals Company - The Doe Run Company

I actually went looking for Harbor Freight powder at one time - the local one didn't carry any. Good thing I stopped there, and just started buying from Smokes! Still don't remember ever hearing that, maybe that was several years ago before I started casting, I'll have to ask.

Wheel weights are known in the industry as "garbage lead", as none of them are the same. Any ingots you cast from melted wheel weights really need to be hardness tested carefully. The fine ladies at Seafab laughed when I asked what was in wheel weight lead. They do ship, BTW. 

I completely agree with the lubrisizer - when I got into casting I was married to my ex-wife and we had less than no money. Reloading was literally the only way I could keep shooting what few guns I managed to keep out of the pawnshops, and casting made the reloading pennies stretch farther. LLA was cheap as dirt, lubrisizers were made of Unobtanium as far as I was concerned. Then a buddy set me up powder coating, and I never looked back.

Edited February 3 by Dapper Dave
Edit for content

[DeaconKC]

And be careful with wheel weights. The last few years many are made of zinc, not lead, so they cast differently. Tap them with a screwdriver, lead will "thunk" while zinc clicks.

[Choctaw Jack]

I use a "scratch " test.

If you can scratch the surface with your fingernail. It's most likely lead.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

3 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

92% lead, 6% antimony, 2& tin. That's the old Lyman #2.

 

Nope, the original Lyman #2 alloy was 5% antimony, 5% tin.   That is pretty hard (Brinell 15), but also VERY expensive to make now due to the high cost of tin.

 

The Hardball alloy is 6% antimony and 2% tin.  About as hard (16 Brinel), but had been cheaper to make - due to less tin in it.

 

For cowboy shooting, where chamber pressures rarely exceed 15,000 PSI and velocities are around 800 FPS, a half-hardball, half pure lead bullet is plenty hard enough to prevent leading and shoot accurately, at about 12 Brinell Hardness.

 

good luck, GJ

[Whitey James]

I have been buying unsized/unlubed bullets from Missouri Bullet Co and powder coating them myself with Eastwood powder coat and then sizing them with Lee sizing dies for the last couple of years.

So, what I am hearing is that I should search out lead sources like wheel weights to make it significantly cheaper than buying them already cast. I shoot both 45's (Colt and ACP) and 38's. I try to get to 3 matches a month (1 cowboy and 2 WB).

I can check out some local tire shops and see about some wheel weights.

[Nickle]

With 44 Russian guns I have been mixing wheelweights 50 percent with lead just to be easier on the old steel .

But same mixture I don't get leading with probably hotter loads than most use at cowboy. 

My tin supply is solder that I think came from the railroad years ago. I kind of hate to use it because I'm not sure about replacement cost.

Mostly I just shoot straight wheelweights in 20th century guns.

 

[Nickle]

6 minutes ago, Whitey James said:

I have been buying unsized/unlubed bullets from Missouri Bullet Co and powder coating them myself with Eastwood powder coat and then sizing them with Lee sizing dies for the last couple of years.

So, what I am hearing is that I should search out lead sources like wheel weights to make it significantly cheaper than buying them already cast. I shoot both 45's (Colt and ACP) and 38's. I try to get to 3 matches a month (1 cowboy and 2 WB).

I can check out some local tire shops and see about some wheel weights.

Years ago I used to buy lead pipes and used lead flashing from junkyard scrap dealers very,very cheaply.  I've heard dentist x-ray film stuff has lead in it. Your local indoor range at gun club  might allow you to mine the lead. Car Batteries are full of lead  but I would think you would have to neutralize the acid some which way.

The tire shop wheelweights are probably mostly zinc now.  You can cast zinc but it's high temperature and different than casting lead.

I'm not sure where you get tin anymore.  Used to be able to get 50 percent tin solder at every hardware store years ago but I think new solder might be different 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

As already stated, do NOT try to use car batteries for your scrap lead source!    NEVER!  It's not really the sulfuric acid in the battery, it's the calcium metal that replaces antimony in the plates and connectors! 

 

49 minutes ago, Nickle said:

Car Batteries are full of lead  but I would think you would have to neutralize the acid

 

The dross from modern car batteries is a WW I gas attack waiting to happen if gets moist!   And anyway, casting a calcium contaminated batch takes another 100 deg F of pot temp to cast bullets without defects and wrinkles.

 

good luck, GJ

[Nickle]

10 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

As already stated, do NOT try to use car batteries for your scrap lead source!    NEVER!  It's not really the sulfuric acid in the battery, it's the calcium metal that replaces antimony in the plates and connectors! 

 

 

The dross from modern car batteries is a WW I gas attack waiting to happen if gets moist!   And anyway, casting a calcium contaminated batch takes another 100 deg F of pot temp to cast bullets without defects and wrinkles.

 

good luck, GJ

I've never done car batteries or even looked into it.

But I can remember when I was a kid and reading about and learning about casting bullets  I can  remember in the books back then.  Linotype, wheelweights and car batteries was what they used to use.  But I'm  not arguing because you are probably right about car batteries. 

Alot of what I used to read about about casting wasn't right.  Always empty your pot into molds or when you turn on your pot and reheat it will explode haha 

Never preheat your molds. Heat them by casting bullets in them haha

A bead of sweat from your forehead could cause an explosion  haha 

Lead is toxic and dangerous  haha  if it was half as bad as they say I would be dead a long time ago.  When I buy mig welding wire it now comes with a warning on it that it will cause cancer. 

In Canada now apparently primers and powder are classified as explosives.  

Everything we eat is going to kill us. Hard to know who to believe anymore.

Edited February 2 by Nickle
Spell check keeps changing my words

[Choctaw Jack]

I have a friend that owns a tire shop, and he was saving wheel weights for me. The last batch I processed (about 75 pounds) yielded around 25 percent castable lead.

Between sorting out the zinc weights  (and some steel ones also ), all the clips,and the usual junk that ends up in the buckets  and having to dispose of the unusable  weights, reclaiming wheel weights just isn't worth it to me any more.

I tried auto batteries one time.

Waste of time.