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Posted

Hi everyone, 

 

SASS has received a packet full of notices of "Unlicensed Use" of Imagery owned by several different companies- the Associated Press, The Canadian Press, Epa Images, Hearst Holdings, and Reuters. 

 

It seems that by our forum members here copying and posting comments containing images and memes containing images- as well as cartoons -  without express permission from these companies has now resulted in some pretty steep fines for SASS. 

 

Because the infringement detail was so vast, after spending far too much time in an attempt to hunt them all down, I have been forced to remove certain threads entirely- the "Sticky cartoon thread" and the "funny photos add some" threads entirely. Additionally, I've hidden about a dozen other comments and posts with imagery that were listed in the notices we received. 

 

How do we move forward? I'm not sure yet... I don't want to remove the ability to share pictures within the forums, but we cannot (and will not) be subject to fines like this again. 

 

It may be time to start restricting access to the SASS Wire Forums to active SASS MEMBERS ONLY in an effort to maintain our sanctuary here... I will be consulting with our legal team as well as our Advisory Board on the best action moving forward. In the meantime, I'm asking everyone to PLEASE not copy and paste photos or memes from any internet news or image source. 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Misty Moonshine

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Posted

It would be nice to have a list of those who have filed these complaints.  I, for one, would devoutly avoid doing business with them!!

 

 

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Posted

Likely posting complete comic strip.

 

Calvin and hobbes, lockhorns, outta grass cattle co. Andy Capp. All of those are copy righted.

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Posted

My Church got hit with the same BS not that long ago.  I signed up for a IStock account so I could use the "purchased" images for our Cowboy match applications.

 

This is about to get a whole lot worse as Getty Images/iStock is in the process of purchasing Shutterstock.  These companies are buying up the rights to as much digital imagery as they can and then going after anyone they think has money.  They contact the person who posted the original image, pay them some small fee and possibly residuals, then charge $15 or more to each person that uses it.  They are using AI technology to search for these images out on the world wide web and that is what is making all of this possible.  The result, I think, is that we will see be a significant drop in the use of imagery on websites world wide.

 

If they keep this up, we will be back to the old BBS days....

 

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Posted

More censorship.

Posted

Well, since I am not longer an active member please let me know when I need to say “goodbye”. 
 

I do want to say that all the photos posted by me in the Funny Photos thread were from AcidCow.com. A public domain. 
 

I’m sorry to hear about this Misty. It’s quite unfortunate. I am pretty sure that you should have received warnings first, not fines. I’m sure your legal team can fix this. 

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Posted

Here's a thought, just post a link to the original image/article/whatever, without reposting that image/article/whatever.   This came up in an earlier iteration of The Wire when folks were posting copyrighted images of the Swedish Bikini Shooting Team.

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Posted

I tried that earlier and got a Photo icon with a red x.  BTW, though I am not active shooting anymore, and I had dropped membership, I will re - up to support SASS.  Give me a hint on how.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

I tried that earlier and got a Photo icon with a red x.  BTW, though I am not active shooting anymore, and I had dropped membership, I will re - up to support SASS.  Give me a hint on how.

 

How to re-up?  Call the SASS Office at (574) 598-2987.  Between 9 am - 5 pm (EST) M-F.  The friendly folks there will get you set up.

 

To share a link, use the chain links icon in the posting window and put in the web address of the original image.

Snow and Ice

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

I tried that earlier and got a Photo icon with a red x.  BTW, though I am not active shooting anymore, and I had dropped membership, I will re - up to support SASS.  Give me a hint on how.

I just looked it up. You can go to the attached link or you can call SASS HQ.

https://members.sassnet.com/membership/renew.php
 

I think I will call in the morning and re-up. I no longer shoot Cowboy Action but I spend a lot of time here. I have lots of Pards here that I would miss. 

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Posted

I'll go to posting links as suggested. 

 

Just in case:

 

If it comes down that only SASS members may post,  well, thank all y'all for putting up with me.  You are a great bunch of people,  even those I've locked horns with a few times.  Maybe especially those.

 

I've always felt that after the dust settled,  gouged eyes and torn ears were handed back to the rightful owners, we could all sit by the fire and share coffee in comradery and friendship. 

 

I've learned a lot, and hope that I've been able to pass along a little knowledge in return. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Texas Joker said:

Likely posting complete comic strip.

 

Calvin and hobbes, lockhorns, outta grass cattle co. Andy Capp. All of those are copy righted.


They are all on multiple Facebook pages

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Posted
31 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:


They are all on multiple Facebook pages

 

I'm quite sure that Facebook has considerably deeper pockets (bigger law firms also) than SASS.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Eliphalet R. Moderator said:

Here's a workaround, just post a link to the original image/article/whatever, without reposting that image/article/whatever.   This came up in an earlier iteration of The Wire when folks were posting copyrighted images of the Swedish Bikini Shooting Team.

 

sent you a PM with an example--wanted to see if it is OK before posting to the forum

came from GoComics where they say how to send a link to others

cr

 

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Posted

As to restricting access to paying members (not sure the right folks will read this).

 

The SASS wire should be open to all including guests. And Costuming too.

 

Even Team SASS, it is part of outreach. Also the Merchant forum as advertisers should reach everyone in the sport.

 

The Saloon? I could see access as a a perk of membership.

 

Classifieds... I'm torn. Members-only would almost instantly solve the scammer problem. But without being generally open, would we even have enough buyers to make it worth posting an item is available? I do agree with only members being able to sell stuff.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Posted

I believe on this platform, you can Pre Moderate input so it is not visible till approved.  More work for moderators, but a thought.  I am Admin / Moderator on other interest sites.

Posted

My apologies if anything  I have posted has caused a problem.

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Posted

I see the handwriting on the stage wall.

 

Thank you my friends for years of fun. As I am no longer a SASS member, I retire with good memories.  Bless you all, shoot well and safely.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Eliphalet R. Moderator said:

Here's a workaround, just post a link to the original image/article/whatever, without reposting that image/article/whatever.   This came up in an earlier iteration of The Wire when folks were posting copyrighted images of the Swedish Bikini Shooting Team.

I don't see how this would work. Most of the cartoons, memes, funny photos, etc that I post I saved from the Smith & Wesson board.

 

So instead of posting the picture I should post a link to the post on the Smith & Wesson board where I got the picture from? Because I don't know where they got the picture from.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Alpo said:

I don't see how this would work. Most of the cartoons, memes, funny photos, etc that I post I saved from the Smith & Wesson board.

 

So instead of posting the picture I should post a link to the post on the Smith & Wesson board where I got the picture from? Because I don't know where they got the picture from.

The rules state that posting links to other forums is forbidden. Sorry Alpo. 

Posted

If it is determined that only paying members will be allowed to post/visit, then Uno and I will be saying our goodbyes as well.  It's been a great ride, pards.  Keep up the good work and hope to see you on the other side. 

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Posted

@Eliphalet R. Moderator

@Misty Moonshine
Another forum that I frequent requires that any image, graphic or video that is posted also be accompanied by a link to where the item was found on the internet. A valid hyperlink is preferred, not just an image of the link. 
This seems to satisfy their “no infringement” requirements. 
I always make sure I mention when posting any photo or image that I took or made came from my photo file or personal files. 
 

Perhaps this process might work for SASS…maybe?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

@Eliphalet R. Moderator

@Misty Moonshine
Another forum that I frequent requires that any image, graphic or video that is posted also be accompanied by a link to where the item was found on the internet. A valid hyperlink is preferred, not just an image of the link. 
This seems to satisfy their “no infringement” requirements. 
I always make sure I mention when posting any photo or image that I took or made came from my photo file or personal files. 
 

Perhaps this process might work for SASS…maybe?

That is interesting, and explains something.  I noticed recently that when I was sharing an image from the wire or another forum via text message that the copy showed up in messenger with the link appended.  I had been deleting the link, but I guess no more.

 

I guess eventually, the Internet will be nothing but a collection of links back to the one original image.  Be interesting to see how the courts eventually handle this.  Because what about the case where you take an original image, edit it in some way to make it a meme or something else,  is that unlicensed use of work or new work that you now own.

 

I will personally adjust, unless they take my smilies, then I'm done! :o:P:D:lol:

 

 

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
'Cause I Don't Spel Two Gud!
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Posted

Something else I would like to mention. 
It seems to me that something or someone is actively trolling the Saloon causing minor glitches. In the past few days I have been typing or trying to post something and my screen locks. To get past it I have to refresh the page which clears whatever I was working on posting. 50% of the time it comes back right where I left off minus a few characters towards the end, but the other 50% of the time it is gone. 
This does not happen with other forums or websites. Only the Saloon. 
 

Just an FYI

Posted (edited)

This may not sit well...but here it is anyway.

 

If the SASS Wire Forums become restricted to SASS members only, I foresee...

 

The Wire Forum will become a BBQ gun picture forum, a WTC bickering site and very little else. Many potential members ask questions about many different topics. They ask questions on everything from firearms suggested/required, dress, reloading/ammo, general rules, membership, etc. 

 

The Saloon will become a ghost town. Many of the folks that post here are past SASS members, some have never been SASS members but 99% of Saloon posters have been very informative and fun. A few past SASS members have stated that they will renew their membership just for the ability to post on the Forums. Many have stated that they will simply say goodbye and/or post elsewhere. I think that the ones that do actually renew the membership will drop it on the next renewal as the Saloon would now be a dying ghost town.

 

The Classifieds would be the only forum where required membership would be a plus and a scammer deterrent. It would cut out many buyers however as many prospective buyers are NOT SASS members yet. The non-members are the ones looking for good deals, gathering equipment, clothes, accoutrements and other items to complete their entry into SASS.

 

The other forums are (no offense to SASS or regular forum visitors/posters) pretty much a ghost town already with very limited viewers and/or posters.

 

For the record, I'm a current SASS member (not life) and have been continuously since 1998. I haven't shot a SASS match of any kind in almost two years, yet I renew. Why? To be honest, mainly so I can sell items in the Classifieds and secondly to support SASS. I'm not a wealthy person, not even close, so the $69 spent on SASS renewals is an expense that I consider necessary to make a few bucks in the Classifieds that cover membership fees...and possibly make a few extra bucks. Without the extra non-member traffic, I don't see the Classifieds being frequented enough by 'approved current members' to justify the cost of renewing my membership.

 

With that said, I believe that establishing a required membership for the ability to post/participate on the SASS Wire Forums is a mistake that will not have a positive result for SASS for the reasons, and more, stated above.

 

If I'm one of the ones that posted pictures, videos or cartoons that caused a problem for SASS, I apologize and can honestly state that I never thought that posting them would cause any problem for SASS. 

 

 

 

Edited by Cypress Sun
Deleted an Arrr
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Posted (edited)

C'mon Pards let's not be all doom and gloom. I too will miss all the memes etc., but it's not the end of the world. Let's see how Misty and her team make out first. Don't all start quitting yet!!! There is so much real information shared here, it would be a shame to lose all the retired or so called non paying contributors. These memes etc. seem to be shared all over the Internet, maybe these complaints are people just trying to see what sticks. Seems if they posted on the web, it would be public unless stated otherwise. Who knows, but let's not all panic yet! 

Edited by Eyesa Horg
Removed an otto added word!
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Posted

Most of the images I've posted can be found on a half dozen sites.  Some, the same image will be on Getty or Almany with their watermarks, but also on several other sites with no watermark.  

I've always considered that the "fair use" doctrine applied here.  The images are not being used for commercial purposes, and even as memes or humor, are also to some extent educational.  Usually, of a warning, "Don't be a dumbhead!" but still educational.  

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Posted
1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

...  The images are not being used for commercial purposes ...

True, but if I had a copyrighted work, then I have the rights to it. I may want to make a profit from it, or maybe not, but as the copyright holder, I get to decide. When someone copies my work and posts it publicly, then I lose my right to use the image I own in the way I want to use it.

 

I like the memes too, but some of the images in the wild may not be in the public domain.

 

Fair use includes several escape hatches, for instance using excerpts of a book as part of a review. There is also something called fortuitous reproduction. For instance a TV news story containing images of copyrighted items in the background.

 

One thing I do think is safe is to link to a work rather than copying and posting it here. When posting news stories, I always include a link and quote only a short bit relevant to a discussion. For products I am interested in opinions on or suggesting in response to a request, I link to the selling site and may post a graphic from the site. These are fair use IMO but I am an engineer, not a lawyer. I prefer to stay at Red Roof Inns.

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Posted (edited)

JFWIW, I have a couple of copyrighted books.  

 

This my official permission to use either of them without being subject to any legal action.  Have a ball with them.

 

Frankly,  I can use the publicity!  :P

 

Legends, by Tom "Forty Rod" Taylor from Author House Publishing and Cavanaugh: The Last Bounty, same author, same publisher.

 

If anyone wants to buy the rights the starting bid will be $5,000,000.00

Edited by Forty Rod SASS 3935
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Posted
1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

JFWIW, I have a couple of copyrighted books.  

 

This my official permission to use either of them without being subject to any legal action.  Have a ball with them.

 

Frankly,  I can use the publicity!  :P

 

Legends, by Tom "Forty Rod" Taylor from Author House Publishing and Cavanaugh: The Last Bounty, same author, same publisher.

 

If anyone wants to buy the rights the starting bid will be $5,000,000.00

 

I've read those books and enjoyed them.  I have my own copies, which AIN'T for sale~!  ^_^  :lol:

Posted

As this latest frenzy continues, I have to wonder what will eventually happen to the value of those digital assets.  I suspect most people, after hearing of the lawsuits, will cease to search for the images, and or use them, unless there is some sort of commercial use in play.  If I am making a brochure for selling something, and I need an image, then I will be more than willing to pay the copyright holder for that use.  If I want to make a silly meme for sharing with my friends, well I am just not going to do that anymore.

 

As that attitude pervades the internet space, I suspect that fewer and fewer of these companies will find value in the digital assets they paid for as fewer and fewer people will bother to use them.  Instead, I see folks using AI to create all the images they need for themselves.  Personally, this will save me a lot of time as I have spent uncountable numbers of hours searching for that perfect photo for that perfect meme!  :lol:

 

As to making this a Members Only Forum, I think that will be a massive mistake.  When I look back over my 22 years of SASS membership, there was one event that in my personal opinion cost SASS the biggest drop in membership they ever experienced, and that was dropping the Newspaper format Monthly Chronicle.  I understand the reasons why the did it at the time, I wrote a "Requiem For The Chronicle" here on the wire, and I understand the financial cost of creating and mailing that paper, but I personally know of at least a dozen SASS members that let their membership expire when that Newspaper ended.  It was an awesome recruitment tool for new shooters as they would see me reading it in the airport, or on the train, and ask about it.

 

I fear the same thing would happen if the Wire became members only.  I can refer prospective members here to get information, get a feel for the folks here, all while the lurk in the shadows until they are comfortable enough to start asking questions.  That, plus all of the past members that no longer shoot and just hang out, would disappear costing us some of the "History" that is part of this game.

 

As a final thought on this, I personally don't think that creating the "Members Only" barrier will have any lasting effect.  For these digital media companies, $69.00/yr for membership is a pittance and they will just have their AI Bot setup and account and then monitor the postings.  I suspect that SASS paid more than enough in this settlement to pay that membership fee for a lot longer than any of us, including my grand-kids, will be around.

 

I'd post my "Soap Box" meme, but I don't want to end up is SASS Timeout!  :o  (I think I will add that to my signature line...B))

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Posted

Just as an FYI, there are websites out there that have content that is free for use, within limitations, but I don't have the time (or patience) to wade through all of the legalese.  One of you who posses those skills may want to take a look at those sites.  They one I stumbled on is

 

https://pixabay.com/service/terms/

 

If that proves out, we may want to start a running list of websites where content can be used.

 

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