Warden Callaway Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Apparently the presidential pardon powers have been broaden to include people that haven't been convicted of a crime. Or even charged or even under investigation of a crime. 2 Quote
Eyesa Horg Posted January 20 Posted January 20 (edited) Pretty amazing isn't it! Edited January 20 by Eyesa Horg Removed some comment after reading Pat Riots Quote
Alpo Posted January 20 Posted January 20 I was thinking that he used Hunter as a test case. He not only pardoned the Hunter for the crimes he was convicted of, but every other crime he might have committed for the last 10 years. And nobody stepped up and said, "now wait just a dang minute there boy!" So if he got away with it once, he figured he could get away with it again. 1 Quote
Pat Riot Posted January 20 Posted January 20 It’s in the Constitution, apparently. Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution reads: “The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the president’s broad pardon power as far back as 1866. In the case, Ex parte Garland, the Supreme Court described a president’s authority to pardon as “unlimited except in cases of impeachment, extending to every offence known to the law and able to be exercised either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.” The Supreme Court also indicated in Ex parte Garland that the power may be exercised at any time “after [an offense’s] commission.” This means a president can issue a pardon at any point after a crime is committed and before, during or after criminal proceedings have taken place, according to SCOTUSBlog. The president cannot, however, pardon someone for future crimes. In 1974, the Supreme Court also wrote that the broad power conferred in the Constitution gives the president plenary authority to “forgive [a] convicted person in part or entirely, to reduce a penalty in terms of a specified number of years or to alter it with certain conditions.” The Justice Department’s Office of the Pardon Attorneysays pardons this broad are rare, but not unprecedented. A similarly broad pardon was issued by then-President Gerald Ford to former President Richard Nixon following Nixon’s resignation after the Watergate scandal. Ford’s pardon extended to “all offenses against the United States” that Nixon “has committed or may have committed” between Jan. 20, 1969, and Aug. 9, 1974 — the exact span of Nixon’s presidency. FROM: https://www.12news.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/biden-can-grant-preemptive-pardons-constitution-fauci-milley-cheney-fact-check/536-0b998c1d-2680-4f99-9070-c5a88717dfc8 8 Quote
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 20 Posted January 20 It's such a brilliant scheme, I'm surprised nobody's done it before. Make yourself the Godfather of a crime syndicate, make everybody millionaires over the next four years, then pardon all the associate Underbosses for their as yet undiscovered crimes and offenses against the United States on your last day. So long, suckers - HA, HA, HA, HA, HA! 2 3 Quote
Rip Snorter Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Fortunately, with his descent into senility he won't enjoy it for long. 4 Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I've seen it mentioned by some that Biden didn't pardon himself. He didn't have to. The way he pardoned Hunter acts as a pardon of himself. That's how they would have got him. Also when they were concerned that Trump by pardon himself at the end of his first term they said that by accepting a pardon he would be admitting guilt. By their own definition that would make all those accepting their pardon by Biden admitting guilt. 3 Quote
John Kloehr Posted January 21 Posted January 21 4 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: I've seen it mentioned by some that Biden didn't pardon himself. He didn't have to. The way he pardoned Hunter acts as a pardon of himself. That's how they would have got him. Also when they were concerned that Trump by pardon himself at the end of his first term they said that by accepting a pardon he would be admitting guilt. By their own definition that would make all those accepting their pardon by Biden admitting guilt. Since Hunter is pardoned, he can not refuse to testify under subpoena as he no longer has a risk of prosecution. The pardon removes any risk of self-incrimination under the 5th. Hunter's father gets no protection from his pardon. 2 1 Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 1 minute ago, John Kloehr said: Since Hunter is pardoned, he can not refuse to testify under subpoena as he no longer has a risk of prosecution. The pardon removes any risk of self-incrimination under the 5th. Hunter's father gets no protection from his pardon. Yes. But the only way they'd ever even begin is by investigating what crimes Hunter has committed. It's all tied to him. They'll never independently investigate Joe. Remember, they said they didn't further investigate Joe in the documents case because they determined he would be viewed as an elderly sympathetic man that they wouldn't want to punish. They determined that Hillary did not have enough knowledge and expertise in her destroyed classified emails case for them to prove intent. She was that incompetent according to investigators. 1 Quote
watab kid Posted January 21 Posted January 21 ".... according to SCOTUSBlog. The president cannot, however, pardon someone for future crimes. In 1974, the Supreme Court also wrote that the broad power conferred in the Constitution gives the president plenary authority to “forgive [a] convicted person in part or entirely, to reduce a penalty in terms of a specified number of years or to alter it with certain conditions.” ......" should be interesting to see how this plays out - i didnt think he had that power either 2 Quote
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 It goes both ways. The Jan 6 rioters were pardoned including those who assaulted police. Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Initially the pardons were going to be on a case by case basis. After the blanket preemptive pardons by Biden that changed. Plus they have already served years in prison. How many liberals who rioted, burned and looted, including federal buildings, 100 consecutive days in Portland have been convicted and served prison time. Somehow they can't track them down. 5 Quote
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 10 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said: It goes both ways. The Jan 6 rioters were pardoned including those who assaulted police. Actually, not a blanket pardon. Fourteen of the "rioters" (the worst of the 'attackers?') had their sentences commuted. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/granting-pardons-and-commutation-of-sentences-for-certain-offenses-relating-to-the-events-at-or-near-the-united-states-capitol-on-january-6-2021/ 2 Quote
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 7 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Actually, not a blanket pardon. Fourteen of the "rioters" (the worst of the 'attackers?') had their sentences commuted. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/granting-pardons-and-commutation-of-sentences-for-certain-offenses-relating-to-the-events-at-or-near-the-united-states-capitol-on-january-6-2021/ So 1% only got clemency. 1 Quote
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Well we can only hope that every single person that Joe puddinhead pardoned is on a list that forbids them from ever holding a government position again. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about them reoffending. Regards Gateway Kid 2 Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On the day Trump was inaugurated in 2017 the left rioted, destroyed businesses, attacked law enforcement with all kinds of weapons, threw molotov cocktails, violently attacked Trump supporters, etc. A couple of hundred were arrested. All charges dropped. Additionally a couple of million dollars were paid out to rioters for, I'm not certain, civil rights violation or improper arrests. Later of course for months on end they did massive continual burning, looting, rioting, much of it destroying black owned businesses and attacking federal buildings. That was no big deal though I guess. 3 Quote
Subdeacon Joe Posted January 21 Posted January 21 7 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: On the day Trump was inaugurated in 2017 That civil war started on election night in 2016. Heck, the riots blocked on and off ramps, blocked roads to try to shut down his campaign rallies during the 2016 campaign were skirmishes before the all out war. There were only a tiny percentage of the active rioters, looters, arsonists, etc. that were brought to trial. But, to the subject of the Bidens being pardoned: 1 Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said: That civil war started on election night in 2016. Heck, the riots blocked on and off ramps, blocked roads to try to shut down his campaign rallies during the 2016 campaign were skirmishes before the all out war. There were only a tiny percentage of the active rioters, looters, arsonists, etc. that were brought to trial. But, to the subject of the Bidens being pardoned: True. Even before election day the left protested at his rallies and assaulted his followers usually while law enforcement stood by and did nothing. 2 1 Quote
Will Kane Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I've often wondered if Joe shot himself in the foot with this tactic. Suppose for the sake of discussion the pardons of Hunter, for example, are legit under the Constitution and existing laws. If Hunter were subpoenaed in a criminal investigation of Joe, would Hunter be able to remain mum by claiming the Fifth Amendment privilege? Quote
Rip Snorter Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Simple enough like all the lowlife that have been brought before Republican committees, "I can't recall." 1 Quote
Chantry Posted January 21 Posted January 21 11 minutes ago, Will Kane said: I've often wondered if Joe shot himself in the foot with this tactic. Suppose for the sake of discussion the pardons of Hunter, for example, are legit under the Constitution and existing laws. If Hunter were subpoenaed in a criminal investigation of Joe, would Hunter be able to remain mum by claiming the Fifth Amendment privilege? No and any attempt to use the Fifth or do anything but provide a truthful answer could get him charged for perjury. 1 Quote
John Kloehr Posted January 21 Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, Chantry said: No and any attempt to use the Fifth or do anything but provide a truthful answer could get him charged for perjury. And refusal to answer questions under subpoena would be contempt of court. Quote
John Kloehr Posted January 22 Posted January 22 5 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said: Do those pardons apply to STATE charges? No. Also not to civil suits. A President's pardon only applies to Federal crimes. 2 Quote
Subdeacon Joe Posted January 22 Posted January 22 4 minutes ago, John Kloehr said: No. Also not to civil suits. A President's pardon only applies to Federal crimes. Thanks. I was pretty sure that was the answer. Quote
watab kid Posted January 22 Posted January 22 19 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said: It goes both ways. The Jan 6 rioters were pardoned including those who assaulted police. yes , but they had been convicted and served near 4 years in jail , i think there is a difference here , particularly when biden said he wouldn't pardon hunter , as well as saying back in 2020 that he would not give preemptory pardons because it set bad precedent , 3 Quote
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