X Mark Posted January 20 Posted January 20 I have come across a couple thousand 200 gr. SWC's and would like to load them for Wild Bunch shooting. I would appreciate any and all comments regarding this potential reload. Do they create more splatter ,are they more/less accurate than other bullet types ,etc. ? Thanks in advance for weighing in on my inquiry. Regards, X Mark Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 20 Posted January 20 As long as they cycle in your gun they should be fine. 1.25 " OAL is the standard. I've shot tens of thousands of them through my 1911. Loaded some round nose for my son in laws S&W M&P but it ends up it feeds the SWC bullets just fine. 5 Quote
Rip Snorter Posted January 20 Posted January 20 They were very common in IPSC along with the H&G TC 200. Reliable and accurate. 3 Quote
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 20 Posted January 20 My Kimbers had a slightly tighter chamber but when I used .451 diameter SWC, they functioned flawless. .452's gave me some feeding issues in those Kimbers. As mentioned above, your OAL can be important. ..........Widder 2 Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 20 Posted January 20 5.7gn of WW-231 200-220gn lead bullet. Good taper crimp.... 2 Quote
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 20 Posted January 20 (edited) Correct length for any SWC in the 1911 is to have to top of the highest bullet band JUST 0.010" to 0.050" above the mouth of the case. Due to very tight throats in 1911 barrels. There were several designs which copied the H&G 200 grainer, so adjust to leave just that sliver of lead above the case mouth. More than a sliver out of the case, and you will get rounds that don't chamber the last 1/8" of slide travel. But if you don't seat at least to the level of the case mouth, you have a "hanging sharp edge" of the case to catch on during feeding. They will work fine loaded as spec'd, unless they are cast REAL hard, in which case expect some leading in the barrel. Use a high quality lube! I load any 200 grain bullet with 4.6 grains of WST. Clean and very reliable in cold weather. And, no, they won't throw splatter back any more than any other design. good luck, GJ Edited January 21 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 6 Quote
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 20 Posted January 20 Just to dover your other question. Bullet type such as Semi-Wadcutter has nothing to do with "Splatter." Splatter is a product of Target Alignment and Target Stand Design and Material. If you're seeing lots of splatter where you are shooting, the targets are poorly/incorrectly hung (very common) and poor stands. Rebar is a terrible target stand material. So long as your Semi-Wadcutters cycle well and go where you send 'em, fire away!! 3 Quote
Kid Rich Posted January 21 Posted January 21 The main problem I've seen with wadcutters is they do not cycle well in some 1911's. I personally do not run them. I have some 160 g wadcutters but I run them in my 45 colt revolver with CB spl. kR 1 Quote
Go West Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I use an acceptable powder to make the power factor and add a bit more to account for cold weather or other contingencies. I run every round through a case gauge as a plunk test with a barrel didn't catch every problem round. Those that did not fit were run through bulge buster and re-tried. 1 Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Remember, WW231 and HP-38 are the same powder. Quote
Preacherman Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Years ago I got a booklet written by Bill Wilson (2004) titled "Wilson Combat 1911 Auto Maintenance Manual". He says, "The load that I've shot the most over the past 20 plus years is 45 ACP, 5.0 gr Bullseye, 200 gr H&G #68 L-SWC (sized .452"), any primer, OAAAL 1.250", Taper Crimp .469" at case mouth, primers .002" below flush. This load has proven to be accurate and reliable in any pistol I've tried it in." If it's good enough for Bill Wilson, it's good enough for me. Now, I cast the Lee version which is a copy, 3.8 gr Bullseye, which gives me 760'/sec and meets power factor. It also works in all of my 1911s and pcc. I hope that this is a help. Good shootin'! 1 1 Quote
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 IME, Guns that don't shoot the H&G #68 need to have gunsmith work on the feed ramp and and chamber entry and extractor tuning. I find that most lead bullets have at least OCCASIONAL feed hiccups in guns that fail to feed a cast #68 SWC design properly seated. Now, is it worth having a gun that is 100% reliable with SWC? To me, yes, since I like the ability to shoot something that is about the most accurate PAPER TARGET load available IF I ever want to. But, I don't shoot those SWCs in big Wild Bunch matches. I save mine for practice. GJ 3 Quote
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I don't know if it will make power factor for Wild Bunch but I shot 4.3gr WST behind a 200gr SWC in Bullseye Pistol for 13 years and they had great accuracy at 25 or 50 yards. Randy Quote
Griff Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I wrote this last nite and forgot to post it before I shut the 'puter down... Since Wild Bunch is all about the 1911, and 1911s come in all kinds of different flavors and colors, whether YOUR 1911 will gobble 'em up and spit 'em out is VERY much dependent on your 1911. My 1st Gov't mdl practice pistol, as issued would not feed a H&G 68 SWC until our armorer polished and slightly altered the ramp to do so. And yet, the Gold Cup match gun fed them like popcorn thru a goose! Since that experience back around 1972, every 1911 I've owned and had the pleasure of safekeeping has had the feed ramp polished and slightly altered so it would feed both my H&G 68 and a particular 200 HP that I'm fond of. A couple of my 1911 pattern guns have fed them without doing any work, until about the third or fourth magazine full... After polishing & altering that ramp just a tiny bit, I believe most of my 1911 could pass the Army's 1908 (IIRC?) tests for acceptance. IMO, the H&G 68 SWC is about the most accurate projectile launched from a 1911. For punching holes in paper it's pretty unequaled in accurately assessing minute differences in scores. 2 1 Quote
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said: don't know if it will make power factor for Wild Bunch but I shot 4.3gr WST behind a 200gr SWC That would be about a 135 PF load - great for Bullseye shooting, as you wrote. But not enough steam for Wild Bunch. For WB, usually (depending upon the barrel and bullet size) 4.6 grains of WST is about the lowest you want to start with. GJ 1 Quote
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 19 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: My Kimbers had a slightly tighter chamber but when I used .451 diameter SWC, they functioned flawless. .452's gave me some feeding issues in those Kimbers. As mentioned above, your OAL can be important. ..........Widder My Kimber too would not feed them reliably, so I used them up in a 45 ACP revolver. They shot accurately and made beautiful, large holes in paper. I would not purchase more for my semi-autos. 1 Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 5 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: That would be about a 135 PF load - great for Bullseye shooting, as you wrote. But not enough steam for Wild Bunch. For WB, usually (depending upon the barrel and bullet size) 4.6 grains of WST is about the lowest you want to start with. GJ I load 4.9gr of WST with the 200gr swc for around 170 to 175 power factor. For USPSA. Also because I have plenty, 4.3gr Clays. Approximately 875fps Quote
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 22 Posted January 22 (edited) That experience reinforces my experience. I chrono my loads and I've had them chronoed at national and world matches. 4.7 grains of WST with my soft cast 200 grain TC bullets in my Colt 1911 from 1974 makes, every time, 168 PF. Any two 1911's seem to vary a lot, up to 5 PF units for no discernible reason, with exactly the same load. A WB shooter needs to chronograph their own .45 auto loads to be sure, or instead of trying to load to the 150 PF minimum, instead load to about 165 as a goal! Remember, I wrote: 7 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: (depending upon the barrel and bullet size) good luck, GJ Edited January 22 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 3 Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 22 Posted January 22 39 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: That experience reinforces my experience. I chrono my loads and I've had them chronoed at national and world matches. 4.7 grains of WST with my soft cast 200 grain TC bullets in my Colt 1911 from 1974 makes, every time, 168 PF. Any two 1911's seem to vary a lot, up to 5 PF units for no discernible reason, with exactly the same load. A WB shooter needs to chronograph their own .45 auto loads to be sure, or instead of trying to load to the 150 PF minimum, instead load to about 165 as a goal! Remember, I wrote: good luck, GJ At the higher level USPSA matches when they set up the chrono testing they nearly always use 2 chronos. Now with the radar typ chronos they'll set them side by side. Each round fired almost always has a different fps between the 2. Temperature and altitude can effect the results. 1 1 Quote
Kid Rich Posted January 22 Posted January 22 I thought the power factor was not used in WB any longer. kR Quote
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Ummm, here's the 1911 power factor specified in the latest WB Shooter's Handbook version 17.5 (Jan 2025)....... Unless another version has come out in the last hour.... from page 31: Quote Power Factor for the 1911 Pistol The minimum standard for center-fire smokeless ammunition used for the 1911 Pistol in all Wild Bunch Action Shooting competitions is not less than the minimum power factor of 150. And there still is a minimum PF for rifle, but it is set at the Cowboy power factor level of 60. good luck, GJ 1 Quote
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