Dry firing

[Nickle]

I see cowboy action guys  doing it on utube constantly. So does it hurt centerfires? I believe ruger doesn't think it hurts theirs.  What about leverguns? Those Brazilian doubles? What about real original 19th century iron?  

Opinions? 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Yes it can hurt centerfires, so use snap caps.  Buy them or easy to make your own.  On a levergun filing the rim off of one side will let the dummy stay in the chamber.

[Choctaw Jack]

Revolvers with the transfer bars are generally thought to be safe to dry fire. Most others are not.

Snap caps are your friend!

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Guns with a hammer mounted firing can produce burrs around the firing pin hole that drags on the cartridge heads. SKB doubles have been known to break the firing pin tip off the hammer. The Brazillian doubles have been know to mushroom the firing pins. Personally, I use snap caps.

[Frontier Lone Rider]

Definitely do not do this with the early firearms such as Top Breaks or Pocket Pistols.  Many of these are close to or over 100 years old and the metallurgy has changed quite a bit over that time.  The early models firing pins were made from a more brittle metal and will definitely break.

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Yes it can hurt centerfires, so use snap caps.  Buy them or easy to make your own.  On a levergun filing the rim off of one side will let the dummy stay in the chamber.

 

Don't forget to take the dummy out BEFORE the match!

 

Seen that more than a few times as a TO.

Edited January 6 by Cypress Sun

[Nickle]

I bought 12 gauge  snap caps years ago from brownells.  I forget the types of brands.  Basically just solid hard plastic filling the primer hole.  Other one had some type of spring but broke right away.  This was probably 30 years ago. I guess someone makes them better now? 

[Griff]

Dry firing is akin to practicing... as mortal a sin as there ever was... it will eat you up with guilt until such time as you see the error of ways and repent.  The wages of such sin are bright, shiny doo-dabs, baubles, buckles and plaques... the envy of others and the further sin of "pride".  Partake thereof at your own risk.  But, if you're gonna sin, don't compound the errors of your ways by ruining your guns... use snap-caps!

[Sedalia Dave]

3 hours ago, Nickle said:

I bought 12 gauge  snap caps years ago from brownells.  I forget the types of brands.  Basically just solid hard plastic filling the primer hole.  Other one had some type of spring but broke right away.  This was probably 30 years ago. I guess someone makes them better now? 

 

Fill the primer hole will a short piece of O-ring material. Buna-70 or if you can find it Buna-90. The O-ring material will hold up way better than silicone RTV. For shotshells put a taper on the end of the O-ring and push it into the primer hole until it extends a little past the lip on the primer hole.  The lip will keep the O-ring in place without glue. The cut flush with the case head with a razor blade.

 

For cartridges use a drill bit and drill out the flash hole leaving it slightly undersized so that there is a small lip.  Repeat the procedure for installing the O-ring material. 

Use  5/32" drill bit for SPP cartridges and a 13/64" for LPP cartridges.

 

For shotshells use .250" diameter material

For SPP cartridges use .177" (4.5 mm) diameter material

For LPP cartridges use .210" (5.33 mm) diameter material

 

Note that once the primer pockets are drilled out the cartridges CAN NEVER be used for any other purpose.

 

Bulk O-ring material can be purchased from the O-ring Store.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Dry Firing ANY Colt Pattern reproduction Six Gun without good Snap Caps is guaranteed to do some expensive damage.  Good quality Snap Caps are essential.  The same applies to replica Lever Rifles and Shotguns as well.  Without good quality snap caps, you best have the importers and VTI gun parts on "Speed Dial."

[Cholla]

Some will tell you snap caps are not required, but I can't tell you how many times a new member's first post on the Coltforum will read, " I was dry firing my Colt, and the XYZ broke!" I have Ruger Vaqueros, which are just about indestructible and still use snap caps.

[Nickle]

3 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Dry Firing ANY Colt Pattern reproduction Six Gun without good Snap Caps is guaranteed to do some expensive damage.  Good quality Snap Caps are essential.  The same applies to replica Lever Rifles and Shotguns as well.  Without good quality snap caps, you best have the importers and VTI gun parts on "Speed Dial."

You guys have no idea how awful it is to try to get parts or anything up here right now.  (Canada)

[Rye Miles #13621]

I use A Zoom snap caps. 
https://www.grafs.com/a-zoom

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I was taught as a kid to not dry fire firearms. Probably would be just fine doing so with snap caps, but having that lesson ingrained in my brain just doesn't feel comfortable for me dry firing my guns so I don't.

[Eyesa Horg]

So what did folks do before snap caps, just leave the gun cocked? I've always been careful about dry firing 22s, but my Model 60 always dry fires after the magazine is empty. After shooting it for forty years, it is still reliable and no indent from the firing pins. Not debating,just curious, is it better to just put a gun away cocked rather than drop the hammer?

[Boggus Deal #64218]

33 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

So what did folks do before snap caps, just leave the gun cocked? I've always been careful about dry firing 22s, but my Model 60 always dry fires after the magazine is empty. After shooting it for forty years, it is still reliable and no indent from the firing pins. Not debating,just curious, is it better to just put a gun away cocked rather than drop the hammer?

A lot of cases, yes, put away cocked. I don’t like leaving springs compressed. But look at fine British double rifles and shotguns. They’re stored cocked. 

[Eyesa Horg]

10 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

A lot of cases, yes, put away cocked. I don’t like leaving springs compressed. But look at fine British double rifles and shotguns. They’re stored cocked. 

On the WB forum, I think it was you mentioned dry fire for trigger control. Is it ok to dry fire a 1911? I have extremely minimal 1911 experience, but hope to try WB this year.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Just now, Eyesa Horg said:

On the WB forum, I think it was you mentioned dry fire for trigger control. Is it ok to dry fire a 1911? I have extremely minimal 1911 experience, but hope to try WB this year.

I have yet to see a 1911 hurt by dry firing and I have and do dry fire mine a LOT! And have seen quite a number of other shooters who do as well. 
I think the firing pin return spring helps in that regard.

Now, I’m sure that someone will come post here where they googled it and fine someone that says their neighbor’s, uncle’s, cousin’s, boyfriend’s, dad hurt his 1911 dry firing but in 40 years of doing it, especially in the last 15, I have yet to see it happen..

[Marauder SASS #13056]

With a 1911, it should be okay as long as you don't cycle the slide, just pull the hammer back manually. 
If you do reload, you can make your own snap-cap, just to be extra safe, but it isn't required.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

1 minute ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

With a 1911, it should be okay as long as you don't cycle the slide, just pull the hammer back manually. 
If you do reload, you can make your own snap-cap, just to be extra safe, but it isn't required.

Marauder, I’m curious of why you think cycling the slide would matter? Don’t agree or disagree, just curious.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

 

[Sedalia Dave]

Springs are not damaged or weakened by leaving them in compression. There have been plenty of tests done that prove that magazines left loaded for years have not suffered any ill effects.

 

The only thing that causes springs to wear out is cycling them or compressing them past their fatigue limit.

 

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/does-static-tension-wear-out-a-spring.661309/

Edited January 7 by Sedalia Dave

[Marauder SASS #13056]

 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

11 minutes ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

 

There is reason enough to keep doing it if a cat dies every time! And I know I’ll catch flack for that….

But still no physical proof. Just somebody said so…. Yes, I know who he is, had more than a few dealings with him. 
But if you were worried about it, you could ease the slide down. 

[Eyesa Horg]

Thank you! I definitely need some coaching on shooting a 1911, I seem to have major muzzle flip, like a wicked limp wrist!! Will be working on it! Have everything to start reloading, so will start there.

Is there a best part of the finger to operate the trigger? I tend to use the meaty part of the end of my index finger about half way between top and joint.

[Griff]

On a 1911, I'll disagree.  However, I would advise against putting a round in the chamber and let the slide slam down on it... that's hard on the extractor, as that forces the extractor outward to go over the rim, overworking the extractor, as the gun and round are designed to have the round come up with the rim behind the hook of the extractor, not sliding over the rim.  But... with an empty chamber there's nothing the slide contacts that isn't contacted in the same manner with a round being loaded.  The only slowing of the slide is force required to overcome the friction of the rounds being pushed out of the magazine. Once free of the magazine lips, your slide is again free to impact the back of the barrel.  If your rounds "cushion" your slide they're only able to do that by friction of the case wall against the chamber, or sticking out the back of the chamber... which usually means  your rounds are oversized, and you stand a better chance of not getting a full lockup of the action.  Which is not conducive to a well running 1911.  My ammo is sized so that it falls in the chamber and settles right at the end of the chamber... nothing sticking out the back to be impacted by the slide coming forward.  My oldest 1911 is a 1970 Colt Government Mdl used strictly for practice in bullseye and ASM matches (actual match gun is a 1970 Gold Cup);  and carried until ~1982 when I moved to a Combat Commander as my duty gun.  None of which show any signs of hammering between slide and barrel.  I suspect most 1911 shooters will wear out the barrel before damage comes from letting a slide on an empty chamber.  But... as BD sez, if you're unsure, by all means let your slide forward slowly... but I still suggest that sometime before full contact, you let the recoil spring pressure seat barrel & slide for full lockup.

[Cypress Sun]

5 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

So what did folks do before snap caps, just leave the gun cocked? I've always been careful about dry firing 22s, but my Model 60 always dry fires after the magazine is empty. After shooting it for forty years, it is still reliable and no indent from the firing pins. Not debating,just curious, is it better to just put a gun away cocked rather than drop the hammer?

 

I use an orange plastic type "snap cap" with .22 semi's/bolts... insert it in the chamber, manually close the slide/bolt, pull the trigger and leave it in until the next use.

[Sedalia Dave]

Until I see someone do an actual test of letting the slide of a semi-auto drop 25000 times. I'm going to remain skeptical of not letting the slide drop as it will damage the gun.

 

I heard for years that leaving magazines loaded would damage the spring. Turns out that when you talk to the people that actually understand how springs are made that what wears out springs is cyclic motion not static compression. 

 

Now I am not skeptical of dropping the slide on a chambered round as semi-auto pistols are designed to chamber rounds with controlled feeding. I can see where forcing the extractor to climb over the rim when it was not designed to could damage the extractor. 

[Oklahoma Dee]

I use home made 12ga dummies for shotguns. 

Do not use anything in pistols or rifles.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Personal experience only YMMV

I have never had a failure on one of my 1911’s ( somewhere around 30-35 k rounds between them) from letting the slide go forward without a magazine or round in the gun. Not sure what would be at risk anyway. 
I HAVE learned my lesson on dropping a round into the slide cutout and letting the slide slam it into battery. The extractor made an audible “crack” and that was the end of my shooting that day! Got home, took it apart and found that the saying about forcing it over the rim was a no-no was true! Did that once, about a week to get a new extractor and an evening with a long time 1911 shooter learning the ins and outs. Probably could have fixed it faster but it was hard to keep focus with him saying “told you so” and laughing at me all the time! LOL

Regards

    
Gateway Kid

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Have you ever heard of Wilson Combat?  Wilson is a top gunsmith that has worked on thousands of guns, designed parts and makes 1911's.

So he has a lot of experience and knowledge.  The guy in the video was a cop, an experienced combat (IPSC, USPA,etc) competitor and is a court certified self defense witness.  He is a nationally known instructor.  He now works with Wilson.  So they would see more results than 10 of us combined.

 

They are describing this because they have seen it.  Does it happen often?  I can't say.  But as Griff mentions the extractors are one of the weak areas of the 1911 as many of us know from having worn them out.  It is a common wear-point of most automatic pistols.

 

So it may not be a problem for most of us, but it is your gun and so as you like.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

There's a difference between just manually dropping the slide full force on an empty chamber and the slide stripping a round off the mag and chambering the round. With the empty chamber you can rack the slide and slowly let the slide close without it slamming.  Even if letting it slam forward on an empty chamber causes no damage it's easy enough to just not do it anyway.  You can slam your car door shut and not damage anything but there's no reason to do it thousands of times.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Good analogy, Gator!