Buffalo gus Posted January 3 Posted January 3 (edited) Had the opportunity today to actually try out my new uberti 3rd model dragoon. When I first received it, I did the usual clean up and debur. I was shooting 30 grains of 3f grafs with Cci 11s. After the first cylinder it would need help fully rotating to the next cylinder. I could wipe down the front of the cylinder of fouling and it would rotate completely without aid but occasionally it would bind up. Some times without caps, some times with caps. Today was the second outing with this gun with the same issue. The first outing was limited on time and only had time to shoot 2 cylinders. I didn’t find any cap fragments in the action afterwards but haven’t had time to check after this outing. This is my first uberti cap gun, is this the symptoms of the standard uberti short arbor issue or is there something else I should be looking at? Edited January 3 by Buffalo gus Quote
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Cap guns produce a great deal of fouling. I always used an off-the-gun cylinder loader. After every stage, I would wipe down the face of the cylinder, forcing cone area of the barrel, and the end of the water table (where the two locator pins are). Before the shoot, I would grease the arbor. These procedures ensured that I could easily shoot the stage without fouling issues hampering the cylinder rotation. You might also check your barrel-to-cylinder gap. I usually kept mine to .006-.008. The Uberti arbor-to-barrel problem affects the cylinder rotation as fouling there can contribute to cylinder rotation. Cap fragments in the action usually affect the hammer hitting the cap, not cylinder rotation. --Dawg 2 Quote
Erasmus Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Same deal here for me. I typically load my cylinders with a loading stand and so wipe off those same areas between every stage. The typically too short arbor on the Ubertis makes it very easy drive the wedge in too hard and pull the whole barrel assembly back reducing or even fully eliminating your cylinder gap. 2 Quote
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Best way to do it . Off the gun on a loader and wipe it down between cylinders . Quote
July Smith Posted January 3 Posted January 3 (edited) I might be alone on this one, but I load my cap guns exclusively with the supplied under the barrel load lever. If your cap gun is stock it comes with a host of gremlins inside. There is an excellent article written by Larson Pettifogger that address these issues. For starters the short arbor/barrel cylinder gap has to be fixed and the stock nipples should be replaced with some from either Treso or Slixs. A properly tuned and loaded cap gun will be reliable as a cartridge gun and easily run for a two day match without serious cleaning between stages. I highly recommend Mike Brackett's work on cap guns for anyone serious about shooting Frontiersman. Edited January 3 by July Smith 1 Quote
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 3 Posted January 3 PLUS ONE for THE Prairie Dawg. The biggest Gremlins, inherent to Cap Guns, is FOULING of the Cylinder Face, the Barrel Breach, the Water Table and THE ARBOR. Before doing much else, the Barrel to Arbor fit has to be fix'd. then you can do the rest of the fun action work. I also load off the gun with a Cylinder Loading Stand (Tower of Power) and with a PAM damp rag wipe down the cylinder face, barrel breach and arbor. Quote
Griff Posted January 3 Posted January 3 I've been shooting the same 1851 in cowboy action since 1986. While it is marked "Armi San Marco", it was produced in 1985 of parts made by Uberti for the 2nd Gen Colt products. (All parts interchange with 2nd/3rd Gen Colt parts, including all screws). I've since acquired several Colt 2nd & one 3rd Generation 1851s. I've never done anything to the arbors, simply run my cylinder gap @ approximately .001-.002". I load on the gun in a stand, using the rammer on the gun. I use "Bore Butter" as my lube for the arbor and Lucas "Red N Tacky" synthetic grease elsewhere. I use real BP and load a lubed wad behind the ball. I use SlixShot nipples and Remington #10 caps, almost exclusively. I have used some CCI #11s and RWS #1075s when Remingtons were unavailable. While others are busy cleaning their guns after each day's shooting, I'm usually into the 1st of a couple of barley pops... I'll wait till I'm done with the match & home to clean. I've shot several 3-day matches, not including a 4th side match day at one match, before cleaning. I've had (& in the process of having) Manhattan conversions done to my other 1851s, as well as having the leaf hand spring replaced with a coil Ruger Blackhawk spring & plunger to eliminate that spring from being a future failure. Other'n shooting in the rain, with wet caps, my guns run like clockwork. If it was anyone but me shooting them, I'm sure they'd be winning matches! 1 2 Quote
Buffalo gus Posted January 3 Author Posted January 3 (edited) This dragoon will probably never be a match gun but want it to be an enjoyable plinking gun. My pietta 1851 navy’s will be my percussion match pistols, which run very reliably. That being said today I worked on correcting the uberti short arbor issue. I filed a 1/4” stainless steel washer down to .050 thickness to be placed in between the arbor and its mounting hole. The cylinder gap is much more consistent. I also noticed some drag when cycling the action. Upon disassembly, I found a considerable sized burr in the slot for the hand. After I filed out the burr and reassembled, the action feels much smoother. As long as the weather cooperates, I’ll try it out Sunday and I’ll report back with the outcome. Edited January 3 by Buffalo gus 2 Quote
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted January 6 Posted January 6 some years back , I sent all the Uberti cap guns down the road , got tried of buying part kits went to Pietta , did not have to fix them before I could shoot em CB Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 6 Posted January 6 OP, what are you using for lube? Using flat feeler gauges, measure the gap from the back of the barrel to the front of the cyl. You want .006-.009 gap. 1 Quote
Buffalo gus Posted January 6 Author Posted January 6 1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: OP, what are you using for lube? Using flat feeler gauges, measure the gap from the back of the barrel to the front of the cyl. You want .006-.009 gap. I’m using lubed felt wads under the ball. I’m going to check the cylinder gap after I get off work today. Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 6 Posted January 6 3 hours ago, Buffalo gus said: I’m using lubed felt wads under the ball. I’m going to check the cylinder gap after I get off work today. You really need to use this. https://www.buffaloarms.com/ballistol-6-oz-aerosol-bal6.html Quote
Erasmus Posted January 6 Posted January 6 6 hours ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said: some years back , I sent all the Uberti cap guns down the road , got tried of buying part kits went to Pietta , did not have to fix them before I could shoot em CB Agreed. To this day I'm still shooting a mostly stock Pietta (swapped the nipples for Slix, but otherwise stock) and a tuned up Longhunter Uberti. The differences are night and day, but the basically stock Pietta has been putting in some work. Quote
Buffalo gus Posted January 6 Author Posted January 6 2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: You really need to use this. https://www.buffaloarms.com/ballistol-6-oz-aerosol-bal6.html I do use ballistol for my lube, I thought you were asking about bullet lube. Like I said I have a pair of pietta navy’s that are stock minus slixshots nipples and they run like tops. This uberti dragoon will just be a fun range gun but I’d like for it to function reliably. After I fitted the shim, the cylinder gap is .007. I hope to be able to go and try a couple cylinders in the few days. 2 Quote
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 6 Posted January 6 25 minutes ago, Buffalo gus said: I do use ballistol for my lube, I thought you were asking about bullet lube. Like I said I have a pair of pietta navy’s that are stock minus slixshots nipples and they run like tops. This uberti dragoon will just be a fun range gun but I’d like for it to function reliably. After I fitted the shim, the cylinder gap is .007. I hope to be able to go and try a couple cylinders in the few days. After firing, look for drag marks on the front of the cylinder. Good luck 1 Quote
Buffalo gus Posted January 8 Author Posted January 8 Had the opportunity to go to the range yesterday afternoon. Overall there was a noticeable improvement. I can now shoot 2-3 cylinders without having to without having to clean the face of the cylinder. Since this dragoon won’t be a match pistol, I’m happy with it. 2 Quote
Erasmus Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On a separate note from the mechanical issues common to Uberti cap guns; it is my opinion that lubes with a bit of lanolin in them tend to help the gun run longer between cleanings. I make my own lube and lubed wads. I've varied the mixture a few times and have ranged from 25% to 10% by weight lanolin and have used other commercial lubes sans lanolin. IMO and in my experience the guns run longer without cleaning with some (more) lanolin. I think the lanolin helps the lube stick to and stay soft on the breach and cylinder faces such that even with a good build up of crud it's possible (even easy) to turn the cylinder. Now that you have a baseline, if you care to experiment, it might be worth a shot for you. 1 Quote
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