Black Powder shotshells.

[Blackwater 53393]

5 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

Yes, I loaded some more testers...why not. I'm not here to impress anyone, or win belt buckles, or even score highest in my category. I'm just here to have a good time while shootin'. So far, I've been having a GREAT time while shootin'!

And that is what this should be about!!

 

If winning is what makes it fun for you, go for it!!  You’ve got a lot of work to do, but if that’s what you want, it’s cool!

 

If you’re looking for something to blow off steam and relieve stress, you’re in the right place!!

 

Looking to meet people and make friends?  We’ve got you faded!!

 

Just want to play with your guns? You’re in the right place!!

 

Wanna’ dress up and play cowboys and indians or cowboys and outlaws or even cavalry/soldier! This is the place!

["Big Boston"]

On 1/17/2025 at 3:24 PM, Dapper Dave said:

Like this...

40 and 38 gr 3F for testing, 1 OZ #8, two fiber wads, all wads/cards 11 ga. I discovered the 11ga over shot card is not quite tight enough. Hope the glue holds. I will try an 82gr 3F and 1- 1/8oz shot load for rabbit - my gunsmith buddy wants me to take this hunting with him. 

 

 

I had a box of the brass magtech shotshells, and I did a bit of experimenting. That was before I got into Cowboy, it was more a prepping experiment with my son. My results were not as expected, but I did learn that if I were to do it again, I'd never use hot glue, yes it holds but too well. And it is a butch to remove. If I were to do it again I think I'd just drip beeswax/olive oil on the top, just like the cap and ball guys do with crisco. 

 

BB

["Big Boston"]

I have a theory or experience question about shooting 2 3/4 black powder shells in a 3 inch chamber. It is fairly common to see new coach guns and even my single shot to be chambered 3", not 2 3/4".

 

I did read an old article on how the black powder shotguns of yesteryear were chambered a wee bit short so that the crimp opened up with a bit of the hull in the forcing cone, so that it would seal better and keep any combustion gases from getting past the the wad and ruining the pattern and fouling the barrel. 

 

I don't want to buy 3" hulls just to load Cowboy if I don't have to. 

 

A bit of trivia. In North America, the SAAMI spec for maximum pressure is the same for 2 3/4" and 3" shotshells. IOW a maximum average pressure (MAP) of 11,500 psi. 

 

In the rest of the world the C.I.P. standards for 12 ga shotshells 70mm (2 3/4") and shorter are 740 bar (10,733 psi) and for the longer shells 73mm, 76mm and 89mm (2 7/8", 3" and 3 1/2") the MAP is 1050 bar (15,229 psi). SAAMI specs 3 1/2" at 14,000 psi. 

 

BB  

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

3 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

I have a theory or experience question about shooting 2 3/4 black powder shells in a 3 inch chamber. It is fairly common to see new coach guns and even my single shot to be chambered 3", not 2 3/4".

 

I did read an old article on how the black powder shotguns of yesteryear were chambered a wee bit short so that the crimp opened up with a bit of the hull in the forcing cone, so that it would seal better and keep any combustion gases from getting past the the wad and ruining the pattern and fouling the barrel. 

 

I don't want to buy 3" hulls just to load Cowboy if I don't have to. 

 

A bit of trivia. In North America, the SAAMI spec for maximum pressure is the same for 2 3/4" and 3" shotshells. IOW a maximum average pressure (MAP) of 11,500 psi. 

 

In the rest of the world the C.I.P. standards for 12 ga shotshells 70mm (2 3/4") and shorter are 740 bar (10,733 psi) and for the longer shells 73mm, 76mm and 89mm (2 7/8", 3" and 3 1/2") the MAP is 1050 bar (15,229 psi). SAAMI specs 3 1/2" at 14,000 psi. 

 

BB  

What kind of hull are you talking about - paper, plastic, or brass?

["Big Boston"]

13 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

What kind of hull are you talking about - paper, plastic, or brass?

 

The article was referring to paper, as plastic was not a thing yet. It would somewhat apply to plastic, but plastic being thinner to get the same effect, according to something I read, the mouth of the hull would have to be even further into the forcing cone. IOW, the article went on to say, in a 67mm (2 5/8") 12 ga shotgun chamber a 2 3/4" plastic hull would seem like an ideal BP setup. 

Brass hulls are an entirely different kettle of fish, as they use 11 ga wads. I'd think an longer forcing cone may be of some advantage, run cleaner and less recoil. 

 

But in my setup, I'm using a 2 3/4" plastic hull in a 3" chamber, would I see or notice any difference with a 3" hull. I'll make a pretty safe assumption that nobody shoots a 3" BP shotshell for Cowboy. 

 

BB

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Big ""B"

I can't comment on paper or Plastic.  I have been shooting All Brass Magtech hulls for about a Decade now.  ALL my Hammer Doubles have three inch chambers.  All I get is what I consider to be "normal" fouling.  Nothing excessive and easy to remove.  I do break with tradition though.  I don't use ANY fiber wads at all.  I use either a Ballistic products 12Ga Spitfire wad with a one ounce shot cup, or a BP 1044 Wad with the shot cup cut back for a one ounce pay load then topped with a double stack of over shot cards with no glue and no crimp.  I am not an advocate of crimp for Brass Hulls.

 

Since I'm not out in a Pheasant Field nor a Duck Blind, the over shot cards remain tight from gun cart, to shotgun belt, to shotgun with no problem.  Just don't drop them on concrete.  Bad Joss that. 

["Big Boston"]

This little gem followed me home today. IMO pretty decent shape for an antique. The seller said it was his dads, but that he never saw him use it. 

 

 

I've seen a few of these, but none ever had the little puller thingy. 30 CAD and it was mine. If I'm going to do the BP thing,  suppose I need some oldie time tools. 

 

BB

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

11 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

 

The article was referring to paper, as plastic was not a thing yet. It would somewhat apply to plastic, but plastic being thinner to get the same effect, according to something I read, the mouth of the hull would have to be even further into the forcing cone. IOW, the article went on to say, in a 67mm (2 5/8") 12 ga shotgun chamber a 2 3/4" plastic hull would seem like an ideal BP setup. 

Brass hulls are an entirely different kettle of fish, as they use 11 ga wads. I'd think an longer forcing cone may be of some advantage, run cleaner and less recoil. 

 

But in my setup, I'm using a 2 3/4" plastic hull in a 3" chamber, would I see or notice any difference with a 3" hull. I'll make a pretty safe assumption that nobody shoots a 3" BP shotshell for Cowboy. 

 

BB

My Stoeger and TTN SxS guns have 3” chambers and have only had 2  3/4” shells thru them. I use the same components for smokeless and Goex BP - AA plastic hulls, 1 oz pink plastic wads and Win 209 primers.
 

I like the AAs because they’re commonly tossed by others after one firing. In 30 years of reloading shot shells, I’ve never paid for empty hulls. 
 

Fouling is unremarkable with real BP. Hot water rinse, pause, rinse again, followed by one or two tightly wadded 1/2 sheet paper towel dampened with Murphy’s mix. (Equal parts Murphy’s Oil soap, iso alcohol and hydrogen peroxide. 90% of the plastic snot from the wad comes out with the water. That’s all there is to it. Shooting BP is only as hard as one wants to make it. Like I said, it ain’t rocket surgery. 
 

That’s a really nice antique roll crimper you got there. I’ve no idea if it works well with plastic hulls (probably does). Perhaps others will chime in.
 

My roll crimper works on a drill press, but I rarely use it. Loading is a chore (for me) so I’ll do most anything to speed things along. My loads are done on a Mec. 

 

Welcome to the dark side!

 

 

Edited January 21 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

11 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

...I've seen a few of these, but none ever had the little puller thingy....

puller thingy?  That piece to the left?  I have one of those crimpers, works fine on plastic, but I've never seen one of those thingies and wonder what is it for?

["Big Boston"]

 

It slides on the rim of a 12 gauge hull, that's intuitive enough, no mystery there. But what it was called, or what it's intended application was, IDK. 

 

It was a package deal, came with the roll crimper. However, I have no way of knowing if it is supposed to be included with the crimper, or the previous owner bundled it as it didn't belong with anything else. 

 

It is magnetic, but a bit weak. The metal has no rust and is silvery in color. It appears to be a cast piece. 

 

My Bad, derailing my own topic.

 

BB

 

 

[Rip Snorter]

There used to be shotguns without ejectors or extractors. To remove a fired round from a double gun.  You can still find European hunters jack knives with a similar fixture as a guard. 

[Eyesa Horg]

12 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

This little gem followed me home today. IMO pretty decent shape for an antique. The seller said it was his dads, but that he never saw him use it. 

 

 

I've seen a few of these, but none ever had the little puller thingy. 30 CAD and it was mine. If I'm going to do the BP thing,  suppose I need some oldie time tools. 

 

BB

I've picked a couple sets of those here and on eBay for 20-30$ they work well for roll crimping plastic hulls.

["Big Boston"]

Thanks rip snorter. 

 

I don't have the only one in existence, this one was on ebay, it may have sold or the seller didn't have any takers.

 

 

BB

[Dapper Dave]

All I can say is I bought a spade bit and a good steel punch and now I can quickly deprime my brass shells.