Roll crimping .45 Cowboy Special & Auto Rim

[Bad Bascomb, SASS # 47,494]

Brewing some revolver loads and needing a good roll crimp.  Can only find ACP dies which make a taper crimp.  Queried Midway and no joy found.

Considering getting a less expensive (Lee) .45 Colt die and cutting it down. 

Before doing that, have you any experience in this area?

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

Maybe this?  

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012355584?srsltid=AfmBOoqnjplqWL5lWHD45NfMesPk5NY8aW583hMluTpjeg9HcssX7nzL&pid=124288

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yeah, that Redding would be great if you want to keep the seating and crimping steps separate and do a roll crimp.  I use an RCBS .45 Automatic combination seater/crimp die myself, taper crimp. Have used a roll crimp at one time, but find with a fast smokeless powder in the C45Spl, I do fine with a strong taper crimp.

 

Several pards have cut off an old .45 Colt roll crimp die - easiest with a small lathe, but with some work hand tools will "cut it".

 

good luck, GJ

Edited December 23, 2024 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Bad Bascomb, SASS # 47,494]

  Thanks for the info.  Much appreciated!

[Griff]

I use a RCBS 45 ACP Roll Crimp Die.  Shows to be "in stock" @ Midway.

[Leroy Luck]

I use the Redding profile crimp die like the link above shows. Works great!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

How about a Lee Factory Crimp Die?

https://www.titanreloading.com/product/45-acp-lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-45-acp/

 

[Cholla]

Hornady offers the set recommended by most. It does 45 ACP, 45 autorim, and 45 Win mag.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-546554-DIESET-Winchester-Three-Die/dp/B000PD5SUE/ref=sr_1_3?crid=AW31ZSSIYPBK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.uVtRFBfjQFN2o_a0TiaODXpD_XTYVQ5qbn6powg2O1D93s8lVSUFgnWyJFKPwf_fQZ6hANq0wgX5jo7t2YfazC5vE_GnbpGihNdE7aTTKCIEwjDDSuDbqpPC89M5TSc2NHxnuFTfqvsN6fLXm0nU1dn4e5X75JRzpjqZ7s-vjb86HD9bderE1EsdyLeSpCLS8gf1QW-LunHCHQBUkaWTdJ1_klYbyxbk1GIWAo9PKVf9ZIJQuBAUGpzgrE52zzuuE4fuYIItwTwutsKRDc86ikeSz4XanZWvfOPIxrD7kWu_SM1P-Zf5ZlEKPCuOGLOs0mbrF4va9yWpLJX6zKV4TNu0WRn1rg9PAzf2V68PlocpncfrznUgltT1rbQDAsjYQAokHMeOzxMHZ6cMxMj7OUz83X0eoKkQec-qjTJRB8egjLKmqLByMCfAivRDjI54.jOwVcDOuxqip9xPsxTHlRvuaalGMLRUTGenyG_yRtg4&dib_tag=se&keywords=45+autorium+dies&qid=1734955525&sprefix=45+autorim+dies%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-3

[Warden Callaway]

 

Grafs show one in stock.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/search?keywords=18942

Edited December 23, 2024 by Warden Callaway

[Sixgun Seamus]

I use the Hornady 546554 die set as referenced by Cholla. It puts a perfect crimp on the C45S. I use a regular 45 Colt sizing die as the one included is a bit smaller and overworks the brass. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

BB, give the Lee Factory Crimp Die for .45acp a go 

[Bingo Montana]

I use the Lee 45 Colt Factory Crimp die with a small piece of 14mm OD/12mm ID aluminum tubing cut to about 7/16" in height as a spacer in-between the crimping insert and the adjusting stem.  Works perfectly, no need to purchase a new die and is a cheap solution.  I think I paid $3 or $4 for about a foot length of the tubing at my hardware store.

 

You can also use a longer Lee 45 ACP SB2284 seating steam purchased online in the 45 Colt seating die, $3.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for the Redding Auto Rim Profile Crimp Die.  Excellent results.  OK, it ain't cheap but it WILL pay for itself making great Ammo.  I am a firm believer is separate Seating - Crimping.  Simple with a multiple station progressive like a DILLON 650 

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Bad,

 

I know that you asked about roll crimping, but I have a responsible opposing viewpoint. Ever since I started losing for cowboy I have used separate seat and taper crimp dies. I just neck size my .45 cases. My theory was that low pressure loads don't blow the cases out to need full length sizing. In addition just moderate neck expansion (Lyman M expanding die) and taper crimping would reduce the amount of working on the case mouth thus extending the life of the cases. 

 

As it turns out, my experience confirms the theory. My cases have been in use for well over 10 year with no more than a handful of splits. In addition, my loads work in all my revolvers and rifles with no problems. You might try my system to see if the loads work in your guns.

 

For what it's worth,

Rev. Chase

[Von Dutch, SASS # 7995]

On 12/22/2024 at 7:57 PM, Bad Bascomb, SASS # 47,494 said:

Brewing some revolver loads and needing a good roll crimp.  Can only find ACP dies which make a taper crimp.  Queried Midway and no joy found.

Considering getting a less expensive (Lee) .45 Colt die and cutting it down. 

Before doing that, have you any experience in this area?

I use a LEE 45 Colt factory crimp Die for my 45 cowboy specials, I made a spacer for it so it would work. I use Bear Creek bullets, so I need a heavy crimp.

[Lucky R. K.]

Could you show us a picture of this die?

Lucky 

[Nickle]

So is the heavy roll crimp about better light load smokeless powder burn or is it about bullets moving and causing a jam?

With a heavy taper crimp and cast bullets, won't this tend to swage the cast bullet with the case and wreck accuracy? 

 

In other calibers I have taken a grinder to bottom of a seat die to make  it shorter and the chamfered the edge with dremnel sanding disc. The seat die doesn't contact the shell holder so it doesn't have to be perfectly square.  Example 44 magnum seat die that I can use for 44russian 

[Griff]

Heavy roll crimp?  No, just an adequate roll crimp to keep the bullet from either telescoping into the case under the weight of cartridges in front as in a rifle or pulling out under recoil as in a revolver.  CAS is not precision shooting... I only bother to sight in my rifles for 50 yards... and 2" groups are fine... I can still shoot the targets precisely WHERE I want to... the corners, the hat brim, the feet, chicken heads... we're talking between 3 to 15 yards average distances between rifles and pistols.  If I'm just shooting, without worrying WHERE I hit the target, I don't even bother with looking for my rear sight!  I can tell ya where the danged FRONT sight was when I broke the shot.  You're way over-thinking the whole thing. 

[Nickle]

10 hours ago, Griff said:

Heavy roll crimp?  No, just an adequate roll crimp to keep the bullet from either telescoping into the case under the weight of cartridges in front as in a rifle or pulling out under recoil as in a revolver.  CAS is not precision shooting... I only bother to sight in my rifles for 50 yards... and 2" groups are fine... I can still shoot the targets precisely WHERE I want to... the corners, the hat brim, the feet, chicken heads... we're talking between 3 to 15 yards average distances between rifles and pistols.  If I'm just shooting, without worrying WHERE I hit the target, I don't even bother with looking for my rear sight!  I can tell ya where the danged FRONT sight was when I broke the shot.  You're way over-thinking the whole thing. 

19th century guns have always been my favorite.  Developing loads , getting them shooting shooting dead on at different ranges.  Casting bullets, handloading on stormy days. It's all fun and interesting to me.  But yes you are right. Precision isn't needed.  But no downside to it either. ( smile)

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Sorry, but just "neck sizing" for 45 Colt cases as Cowboy 45 Special cases be two different animals.  I'm still a poster boy for separate seating and crimping dies.  Even with "neck sizing" only, with 45 Colt cases there will still be an annoying amount of Blow-By.

[Choctaw Jack]

I've been shooting C45S for several years now inmy revolvers, but just a couple of years in my '73 rifles. One added benefit of the shorter cartridge in my long guns is how much cleaner they run.

The higher efficiency lends itself to more complete combustion, and the blow-by of the parent .45 Colt has been greatly reduced.

When I was using only .45 Colt , I usually annealed every 2-3 firings. Since switching to the Special cartridge, I don't bother to annealing at all.

Win-win situation.

As usual, YMMV.

Choctaw 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for Choctaw Jack you betcha

[Lucky R. K.]

13 hours ago, Nickle said:

In other calibers I have taken a grinder to bottom of a seat die to make  it shorter and the chamfered the edge with dremnel sanding disc. The seat die doesn't contact the shell holder so it doesn't have to be perfectly square.  Example 44 magnum seat die that I can use for 44russian 

This is what I did with my Lee Factory Crimp die.  I removed material from the die base until I got a good firm factory roll crimp on the .45 Cowboy Special brass.

Lucky 

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

14 hours ago, Nickle said:

So is the heavy roll crimp about better light load smokeless powder burn or is it about bullets moving and causing a jam?

 

Both! Light loads with minimal powder can become erratic under various conditions, such as temperature, firearm position etc. so having a solid crimp ensures what powder is in the case burns completely. This minimizes the amount of powder granules that bother many for various reasons. 
As far as bullet movement you haven’t enjoyed the full cowboy experience until you are in the middle of a great rifle run and have a collapsed round where the bullet telescopes into the case due to inadequate crimp! Especially in a ‘73.

 

With a heavy taper crimp and cast bullets, won't this tend to swage the cast bullet with the case and wreck accuracy? 

Personally reserve my taper crimp for rounds that headspace off the case mouth, 9 mm, 45 ACP and others. Using lead bullets with a taper crimp doesn’t seem to adversely affect accuracy out to 50-60 yards, regardless of light or heavy crimp, so long as the bullet is held securely. As far as the roll crimp for my rimmed cases, most of the bullets I use don’t have a crimp groove, meaning you are crimping the case mouth directly into the side of the bullet. This takes a fairly stout crimp to solidly hold the bullet, ensuring complete burn and avoiding bullets collapsing into the case. 

 

In other calibers I have taken a grinder to bottom of a seat die to make  it shorter and the chamfered the edge with dremnel sanding disc. The seat die doesn't contact the shell holder so it doesn't have to be perfectly square.  Example 44 magnum seat die that I can use for 44russian

 

No experience here with modifying dies. If you simply want to seat a bullet deeper into a case doesn’t the seater plug have enough adjustment to do that? Just checked and my 357 dies (currently set for 38) will push a bullet nose even with the case mouth just adjusting the seater plug. (RCBS and old style Dillon)

Enjoy the ride!

You are asking good questions, so keep it up. 
Regards

    

Gateway Kid

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Yepper Gateway!!  "Turtles" are a real nuisance in the middle of a Rifle Run!!

 

Nickle,

 

Yep.  When running light loads, the smaller case volume with a good crimp results in more complete combustion!!  A good crimp also eliminates "Turtles."

Edited December 26, 2024 by Colorado Coffinmaker

[WOODFOX , sass#34179]

I use a Lee 45ACP-B8 factory crimp die

[Bad Bascomb, SASS # 47,494]

 

 

Today received Redding profile crimp die and it works a treat!

Thanks for the tip and all the info.

 

BB

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

It was a surprise to me but I am able to use my Hornady .45 Colt dies to seat/crimp Cowboy .45 Special cases in my Hornady LNL-AP press.