Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted December 23, 2024 Posted December 23, 2024 2 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: It may well be Timer Operator error - but people do not like to be called out or admit a mistake (you see it all the time with spotters) - they lose concentration, end up in the wrong position, etc. and then instead of admitting their error - they just copy the count of another. Timers are just as falliable - they go the wrong way, hold timers incorrectly, lose concentration, get focused on another task (safety, round counts, assisting the shooter) instead of watching the timer - a million things can occur that can lead to an incorrect time (and the timer may not even be aware of the issue or may not want to admit their "possible" error) Again - I am not saying ANYONE is cheating; I am simply asking IF a time that doesn't seem right can be challenged? By whom? And by what rule? It would seem to me that the first question in that case would be to ask the timer if he visually confirmed the last shot registering. If he says emphatically, "yes, I saw it". OK. If he's hesitant to answer, thinks he confirmed it, isn't sure, then operator error. 2 Quote
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 24, 2024 Posted December 24, 2024 I think the answer is yeah you can challenge it, but the likelihood of your challenge succeeding is zero unless the shooter cooperates. The answer to your second question is that there is no provision for such a challenge. Do you think this happens often enough that there should be an avenue to challenge times? How many would be willing to speak up and issue such a challenge? I suspect very few. 1 Quote
Griff Posted December 24, 2024 Posted December 24, 2024 I don't have time this am to look it up, but ISTR that there was a rule or ruling at one time that only the shooter involved could issue a challenge to a call. A TO could certainly question his own timer operating, but beyond that... other than an RO (spotter, scorekeeper, timer operator), actually involved in running a stage... I don't believe anyone has the right to issue a challenge except in the event of a safety call. 1 Quote
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 24, 2024 Posted December 24, 2024 2 minutes ago, Griff said: I don't have time this am to look it up, but ISTR that there was a rule or ruling at one time that only the shooter involved could issue a challenge to a call. A TO could certainly question his own timer operating, but beyond that... other than an RO (spotter, scorekeeper, timer operator), actually involved in running a stage... I don't believe anyone has the right to issue a challenge except in the event of a safety call. Yep! I invoked that rule years ago when a member of the peanut gallery wanted to give me a P. I told him that the TO and spotters agreed I was clean, I wasn’t challenging the call, so next shooter. 2 Quote
Black Angus McPherson Posted December 24, 2024 Posted December 24, 2024 18 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: It would seem to me that the first question in that case would be to ask the timer if he visually confirmed the last shot registering. If he says emphatically, "yes, I saw it". OK. If he's hesitant to answer, thinks he confirmed it, isn't sure, then operator error. This really makes me wonder. If the TO isn't sure he confirmed the last shot registering, you want to use that to force the shooter to reshoot? That may be "operator error", but that doesn't prove there was any error in the time recorded. That sure doesn't seem fair. Angus 2 Quote
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted December 24, 2024 Posted December 24, 2024 49 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said: This really makes me wonder. If the TO isn't sure he confirmed the last shot registering, you want to use that to force the shooter to reshoot? That may be "operator error", but that doesn't prove there was any error in the time recorded. That sure doesn't seem fair. Angus Only in a case where the time seems way off from the shooters ability. Not checking after every stage. Quote
Kodiak Bill Posted December 24, 2024 Posted December 24, 2024 I usually shoot low 30s. Sometimes the stars align and I get a mid 20s. When that happens I say “is that right”? And the response is usually that i uncharacteristically earned it. I’d hate to have one of these rare times happen and it be questioned! on the other hand sometimes the stars don’t align and I get in the mid 40s. I don’t even question it! 3 Quote
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted December 24, 2024 Posted December 24, 2024 This situation has occurred with me several years ago. I had gone to a match that was, shall we say a little less competitive, than my home club. Three posses of ten and I had a good day visiting old friends and shot well. Had a long drive afterwards so made my goodbyes and left immediately afterwards. Got home and scores were posted. Six stage match I had finished first by six to seven seconds on five stages. One stage I had been smoked by a beginning wrangler by three seconds. Checked his other scores and they were uniformly fifteen to eighteen seconds behind. Didn’t matter to me other than trying to figure out what happened. Never did it but next match I shot there told him congratulations on a good match and a great stage. He liked that! Regards Gateway Kid 3 1 Quote
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