School shooting

[Rye Miles #13621]

Looks like a 17 yr old girl is the shooter 

 

https://people.com/wisconsin-school-shooter-teen-female-student-8762233

Correction It was 15 yr old 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Rye Miles #13621

[John Kloehr]

A teacher and a student dead. Shooter also dead by suicide (at least "self inflicted gunshot wound").

 

6 others injured, 2 students in critical condition. No info if the other four were students or not.

 

Police did not fire shots, it was over when they entered.

 

Police response just before 11 AM..

 

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/abundant-life-christian-school-shooting-madison-12-16-24/index.html

[John Kloehr]

The 6 injured are all students. AP seems to be the primary source, other services are just copying and forwarding:

 

https://apnews.com/live/madison-wisconsin-school-shooting-updates

 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

I see an executive order coming.

[Blackwater 53393]

SROs, limited access to classrooms, safety glass in all openings to the outside, and arm willing teachers and school staff!! These are the correct answers to the problem!!

 

I’d add metal detectors as well. My grandson and the other kids, teachers, and staff are WORTH IT!!

 

 

[John Kloehr]

4 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I’d add metal detectors as well...

In LA, guns were simply tossed over the fence to students who had gone through the detectors. Along with drugs in and payments out.

[John Kloehr]

31 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

My Lord there’s hundreds of laws on the books !! 🙄

Too many of them restrict law-abiding citizens and even restrict the ability of schools to actually defend.

 

But these two pages just a few minutes of search:

 

$73 million https://cops.usdoj.gov/svpp

 

Nearly $275 million depending on state and source: https://raptortech.com/school-safety-grants-and-federal-funding/

 

I don't think any of it actually prevents or deals with an active shooter at the school in the first seconds.

Edited December 17, 2024 by John Kloehr

[Blackwater 53393]

 

Just now, John Kloehr said:

In LA, guns were simply tossed over the fence to students who had gone through the detectors. Along with drugs in and payments out.

That’s part of the limited access! You bring anyone in or out through controlled entrances.  
 

Preventing ALL such tragedies is impossible! A truly determined individual can circumvent almost ANY reasonable measure taken to protect a facility.

 

You CAN make it so that the perpetrator has a significant level of insecurity and a likelihood of failure.

[watab kid]

the info on this one has switched a bit over the day , so im waiting to see when the verifiable data comes out but , its one more truly sad event , so close to christmas , a small christian school  and young people , couldnt make it much sader if you really worked at it , 

they are all in my prayers 

[Still hand Bill]

I just read something today where China is having to post guards at schools to stop school knifings.  No one wants to address the root cause and until that is done they will continue to happen.  

Edited December 17, 2024 by Still hand Bill

[Cypress Sun]

Until the press and law enforcement STOP publishing the shooter's name, manifesto's, addresses, parents' names, grandparents' names, first pet's name and any other info they can dig up...this kind of thing will keep happening over and over. Erase their existence from history so as to deprive them of the twisted 'fame' that they seek.

 

[John Kloehr]

8 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

I just read something today where China is having to post guards at schools to stop school knifings.

Maybe they should try signs:

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I like these cards!!

[John Kloehr]

12 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I like these cards!!

I like these:

 

http://www.learntocarry.com/nogunsnomoney/

 

i also support the efforts of Gary Slider for running and maintaining this site: https://handgunlaw.us.

 

Navigation of the site has become a bit difficult over time (deep links do not work), there are apps in app stores which are direct ripoffs of his site! Don't pay for an app which both copies and  lags his information, give him a couple bucks if you can, But his work is intended as a public service.

 

I was not going to stop there anyway but drove by a furniture store in Maryville TN today and there was a clear "no guns" sign at the entrance. I will not buy any furniture from that store. If I had been ;looking for furniture and been there, I would have left a card and left the property.

Edited December 17, 2024 by John Kloehr

[Pat Riot]

How many school shootings has there been?

Obviously signs and hand wringing don’t cut it. 

 

 

 

 

Someone ought to shoot Otto. That mother….

Edited December 17, 2024 by Pat Riot

[John Kloehr]

1 minute ago, Pat Riot said:

How many school shootings has there been?

Obviously signs and hand winning don’t cut it. 
 

Depends a lot on who is counting. Was it a shooting at a school of teachers and students, or a shooting in a parking lot after school hours, or a shooting within a 1,000 feet of a school which is the definition of a school zone?

 

Anyway, I just saw the number "83" for this one a bit ago and that it was a record beating the previous record from 2023. By some measure and definition.

[DeaconKC]

1 minute ago, John Kloehr said:

Depends a lot on who is counting. Was it a shooting at a school of teachers and students, or a shooting in a parking lot after school hours, or a shooting within a 1,000 feet of a school which is the definition of a school zone?

 

Anyway, I just saw the number "83" for this one a bit ago and that it was a record beating the previous record from 2023. By some measure and definition.

John beat me to this. Okay, it's time to start arming teachers like they do in Israel.

[John Kloehr]

1 minute ago, DeaconKC said:

John beat me to this. Okay, it's time to start arming teachers like they do in Israel.

Israel actually stopped doing that a few years back, and also disarmed veterans (suicide risk). Then they experienced October 7th, 2023. Over 1,000 killed.

 

I have not heard reports of changes, but there might be some. Seems somewhere along the way they felt safe and even forgot why they were armed in the first place. 

[Rip Snorter]

My recollection is not completely clear, but I read that there have already been significant changes in Israeli permitting.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

4 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

SROs, limited access to classrooms, safety glass in all openings to the outside, and arm willing teachers and school staff!! These are the correct answers to the problem!!

 

I’d add metal detectors as well. My grandson and the other kids, teachers, and staff are WORTH IT!!

 

 

And if a shooter is caught in the act SHOOT TO KILL!  And don't give any info or pictures about the shooters.  Don't publicize it because some freaks will want to copy it to get their name in the news.

[watab kid]

5 hours ago, Still hand Bill said:

I just read something today where China is having to post guards at schools to stop school knifings.  No one wants to address the root cause and until that is done they will continue to happen.  

i believe you correct here - there is an underlying mental problem that is known and overlooked or concealed ...till all hell breaks out then people take notice for a moment and soon forget , i believe we no longer want to accept the mental illness among us nor do we want to confront or deal/treat it , but then thats the issue with me treating it- sure you can make folks go to treatment but then are thay really geting treatment that helps , its a big business aint it ? 

 

do we fix anything?  are there people out there we cant fix ? are there always going to be issues that result in this ? im old enough to remember a time when there was a lot less  but i recall the campanile shooter in texas and the  van shooter that terrorized the east coast , i lived thru regans assassination's attempts and fords as well as the kennedy and the recent trump incidents , we may need to increate the insane again one day , for both their good as well as the publics , im not food with that but im starting to think we went from one extreme to the other , 

 

we try a guy that stands up to someone threatening to kill on the subway " i dont get it , maybe i nebver will , 

[Rye Miles #13621]

9 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

John beat me to this. Okay, it's time to start arming teachers like they do in Israel.

Ohio does it, it voluntary and they must have some training. Schools can choose to join the program or not.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-some-ohio-school-districts-are-arming-teachers-and-staff-with-firearms/

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

10 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

That’s part of the limited access! You bring anyone in or out through controlled entrances.  
 

Preventing ALL such tragedies is impossible! A truly determined individual can circumvent almost ANY reasonable measure taken to protect a facility.

 

You CAN make it so that the perpetrator has a significant level of insecurity and a likelihood of failure.

and the real possibility of an immediate, sudden, and violent death, or at least a permanent crippling disablement and very long brutal incarceration.....and NO publicity.

 

One way of another they need to be removed from society and forgotten.....in the most inexpensive way possible.

[Rye Miles #13621]

13 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Looks like a 17 yr old girl is the shooter 

 

https://people.com/wisconsin-school-shooter-teen-female-student-8762233

Correction It was 15 yr old 

Correction it was a 15 yr old shooter

[Boggus Deal #64218]

3 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

I don't hear objections from gun owners about background checks.

I dont hear objections about gun safety locks.

I dont hear objections concerning minimum age requirements, etc.

 

Basically, I ain't sure we got many more options unless you are advocating some sort of ban or greater restrictions.

 

Our society has known for YEARS that ALL our schools need a better 'check in' system to help prevent guns from entering

the schools.   Yet, its neglected.

In the past, there has been some instances where officials were 'warned' about behaviors of some students, yet failed to act

on anything until AFTER a bad situation happened. ...  i.e.... school shooting.

 

What do you think WE, as responsible gun owners, can do that is gonna prevent these situation from occurring.......... short of

giving up our ownership rights to appease all the demands of the Anti's.

 

In my younger years, it was the "Saturday Night Special" that was being sought as the evil gun in our society.

Switchblade knives were also forbidden by many.

Then when the bolt action rifle was used to kill Kennedy, the CGA of 68 became law.     All the requirements included into  

GCA '68' were gonna stop all the gun crime.

But then, those evil black rifles became the focal point for the anti's.     Again, the lawful gunners have to take a stance

to protect our 2A rights.

And lets not forget those magazine that hold more than 10 rounds.   Remember, those were banned for a few years

until it proved that nothing changed concerning crime or senseless shootings.

 

Where do you think it will end?      The schools have to do a better job at the front door.   The resources are available.

The money is always available if the priority is put in its rightful position.   

 

It is sad that the gun owner always have to bear the brunt of the problem every time a bad shooting occurs.

But personally, until some REAL COMMON SENSE is established and actually used, I think gun owners

have supported a lot of laws, restrictions, requirements, etc...... to help rid our society of these bad happenings.

 

So..... what's the answer?   What do we give up next that will actually have NO effect these shootings?

 

..........Widder

 

I have a problem with background checks, gun locks and any other gun “law” that doesn’t account for personal responsibility. 
There are plenty of laws on the books in this country and obviously they don’t work. Why? Gun crimes are plead down to nothing. And then guns are blamed for the problem.  
Parents don’t teach their children responsibility because parents don’t act responsible. 
Kids at school don’t have to be responsible because the teachers can’t punish. And if they do, the parents defend the kids. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

13 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

Anyway, I just saw the number "83" for this one a bit ago and that it was a record beating the previous record from 2023. By some measure and definition.

 

 

That's the number I saw in a CNN article yesterday.  Kind of surprised me because usually CNN takes the highest possible number.   Local news this morning said that there have been close to 200 school shootings this year.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

33 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

I have a problem with background checks, gun locks and any other gun “law” that doesn’t account for personal responsibility. 
There are plenty of laws on the books in this country and obviously they don’t work. Why? Gun crimes are plead down to nothing. And then guns are blamed for the problem.  
Parents don’t teach their children responsibility because parents don’t act responsible. 
Kids at school don’t have to be responsible because the teachers can’t punish. And if they do, the parents defend the kids. 

 

Sorri, I should have been a little clearer in my wording.

When I stated about the background checks, gun locks, age requirements, etc......... it was in reference to ALL these things we have

already done decades ago, and yet very little has changed because of all those 'restrictions' we have already initiated in our laws.

 

Gun owners have abided by those laws and basically, you don't hear complaints about them.   

It doesn't mean folks agree with them...... its just complaining about them has basically become nil.

 

..........Widder

 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

7 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Sorri, I should have been a little clearer in my wording.

When I stated about the background checks, gun locks, age requirements, etc......... it was in reference to ALL these things we have

already done decades ago, and yet very little has changed because of all those 'restrictions' we have already initiated in our laws.

 

Gun owners have abided by those laws and basically, you don't hear complaints about them.   

It doesn't mean folks agree with them...... its just complaining about them has basically become nil.

 

..........Widder

 

No need to apologize to me, my friend. I’m pretty sure we’re on the same page! I’m tired of giving up rights and never getting anything in return. 
You are correct, though. The silent majority has been too silent about stuff like this. Maybe we need to start being more outspoken. Possibly we have a government that will listen for the next four years…

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

No need to apologize to me, my friend. I’m pretty sure we’re on the same page! I’m tired of giving up rights and never getting anything in return. 
You are correct, though. The silent majority has been too silent about stuff like this. Maybe we need to start being more outspoken. Possibly we have a government that will listen for the next four years…

 

Thou hast struck the mark!

 

This is why I've taken Stalin's General Order 227 to heart on this:  

 

 

Not one step back. 

 

It's always, "Just one more law!"  Or when too many people comply with the law there are screams about "exploiting loopholes" and then making compliaence with the law illegal.   The California "bullet button" is a prime example of that.   

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

Sigh….

How many times do we have to say it: gun control laws are about disarming the law abiding!!!

They protect no one but evil doer’s from the law abiding!! The rhetoric that they protect the law abiding is propaganda for the ignorant and STUPID !!!

Plus gun control is how governments take over and subjugate citizens!

Ask German Jews about Nazis! Ask Soviets about Stalin! Ask Chinese about Mao! Cambodians about Pol Pot! 
Oh, that’s right-you CAN’T!! They killed everyone who didn’t obey! After disarming them!!

Discussion over.

[Rye Miles #13621]

The age old saying “If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns” 

[Windy City Kid]

In the event you get into discussion/debate regarding gun violence, ask the person what their end goal is, which inevitably is to "save lives." Ask them again to clarify and confirm it is to "save lives." Now let them know that DUI deaths account for almost 80% of the same amount as gun homicides. Say things like "tragic, terrible, we need to do something, save the kids, etc." Then suggest this simple solution. Pass a law that says if you have one drop of alcohol, you can't drive. Simple. No Drinking and driving. Period. When they say people will drink and drive anyway, just stare at them, blinking occasionally. 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Windy City Kid

[Rip Snorter]

Lemmings do also!

[Texas Joker]

seems appropriate to the discussion.

 

I can't find the penn and teller one anymore

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Dana Loesch said the left got all into gun control because of this school shooting but notice they didn’t say anything about it when the health care CEO got shot and killed. Great point!!👍🏻