Apparently gun cases are not good

[Buckshot Bob]

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Interesting 🤔 

[John Kloehr]

Throw a blanket over the gun case in your back seat. Don't consent to a search. Done.

 

But a good point.

Edited December 17, 2024 by John Kloehr

[watab kid]

of carry them in a back pack type case 

[John Kloehr]

10 minutes ago, watab kid said:

of carry them in a back pack type case 

Guitar case, as long as they are not looking for a guitar.

[Alpo]

Don't live in a state where it's illegal to drive down the street with a gun in your car.

 

I'm still having troubles with understanding something he said there.

 

Officer friendly looks in my car and he see the rifle case lying on the back seat. That's obviously a rifle case so I no longer have Fourth amendment rights for my rifle case. I don't see how that is given up the Fourth amendment rights for the rest of my car. They can legally open the rifle case and see if there's a rifle in it? Fine. Can they Pop My trunk? Can they look under my seat? That appears to be what he is saying. I have more faith in the supreme Court.

[Pat Riot]

In my car my guns are locked in the trunk. Sometimes I use gun cases. Sometimes I use back packs. For rifles it’s hard to find a non gun case looking case. 
When I use our Suburban my guns whether they are in a gun case or another type of case, are covered with a blanket or cloth. 
When I lived in CA I put TSA locks on everything. A cheap TSA lock could be a benefit to keep a search from proceeding further without a warrant. 
 

Of course I NEVER give permission for a search. Nor should YOU! 

[John Kloehr]

18 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Don't live in a state where it's illegal to drive down the street with a gun in your car.

 

I'm still having troubles with understanding something he said there.

 

Officer friendly looks in my car and he see the rifle case lying on the back seat. That's obviously a rifle case so I no longer have Fourth amendment rights for my rifle case. I don't see how that is given up the Fourth amendment rights for the rest of my car. They can legally open the rifle case and see if there's a rifle in it? Fine. Can they Pop My trunk? Can they look under my seat? That appears to be what he is saying. I have more faith in the supreme Court.

It is not illegal in Tennessee, but there is still a difference between Memphis and Sevierville. It is a difference which is not measured by simple miles.

[watab kid]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

Guitar case, as long as they are not looking for a guitar.

or a tommy gun 

[Alpo]

I was going to pick something up at the flight line one time at the local Air Force Base.

 

I told the guard that I was going to hanger 14, and he said okay and waved me through. Then he started hollering WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!

 

As I was driving past the gate he saw through the window in the side of my pickup bed topper.

 

"Are there guns in that gun case??"

 

Nope.

 

"Okay." And he waved me on through again.

 

There was a two gun rifle case laying in the bed. And when I got home I took it in the house.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

Keep them out of sight, be polite and be respectful. 

 

I was stopped years ago for a minor speed violation in CA and within the cup holder was a Colt Armorers coffee mug, pre Yeti mugs.  The Officer told me to exit the vehicle because he was going to search the vehicle based upon a Colt mug, stating I was obviously a "gun guy."  Before this got out of hand I displayed my law enforcement credentials from AZ and politely told him to re-think this.  At the time I was a Detective Lieutenant.  He rethought this order and began to apologize profusely.  Lets just say we had quite the discussion and with letters to follow to his Commanders. 

 

I have been retired for quite sometime and and support the efforts of our men and women in LE.  It is a difficult job when done correctly, done incorrectly and bad things follow.  To add comment to the video, how many women carry within a purse with a built in holster.  Does the 4th Amendment apply to purses, how big a search could this become?   Ladies how personal are the contents within your purse, I refer to my wife's purse as the abyss for a reason.  Something to ponder....

 

Support our  police, support higher standards in education and in character.  Sadly one ill informed officer reflects badly on the overwhelming majority of quality officers.

 

On a humorous note:

Driving to CAS event, lots of guns and ammo onboard.  Suicidal deer jumps into my grill and trashed the radiator.  I am dead in the water.  AZ Highway Patrolman shows up and investigates the wreck.  Tow truck arrives along with my friend Joe, we then begin to remove the CAS accouterments and put them into his SUV.  Mr. Highway Patrolman sees lots of cool guns, he gets the tour of the guns and gear and is still shooting CAS.  I love AZ.  Keep them out of sight, be polite and be respectful. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

3 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

In my car my guns are locked in the trunk. Sometimes I use gun cases. Sometimes I use back packs. For rifles it’s hard to find a non gun case looking case. 
When I use our Suburban my guns whether they are in a gun case or another type of case, are covered with a blanket or cloth. 
When I lived in CA I put TSA locks on everything. A cheap TSA lock could be a benefit to keep a search from proceeding further without a warrant. 
 

Of course I NEVER give permission for a search. Nor should YOU! 

Go to a thrift shop and get a golf bag with a strap down hood.  A fair shape used case can cost under $25.00. Put a pair of golf shoes next to the case to add  to the scenery.

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Hashknife Cowboy said:

Keep them out of sight, be polite and be respectful. 

 

I was stopped years ago for a minor speed violation in CA and within the cup holder was a Colt Armorers coffee mug, pre Yeti mugs.  The Officer told me to exit the vehicle because he was going to search the vehicle based upon a Colt mug, stating I was obviously a "gun guy."  Before this got out of hand I displayed my law enforcement credentials from AZ and politely told him to re-think this.  At the time I was a Detective Lieutenant.  He rethought this order and began to apologize profusely.  Lets just say we had quite the discussion and with letters to follow to his Commanders. 

 

I have been retired for quite sometime and and support the efforts of our men and women in LE.  It is a difficult job when done correctly, done incorrectly and bad things follow.  To add comment to the video, how many women carry within a purse with a built in holster.  Does the 4th Amendment apply to purses, how big a search could this become?   Ladies how personal are the contents within your purse, I refer to my wife's purse as the abyss for a reason.  Something to ponder....

 

Support our  police, support higher standards in education and in character.  Sadly one ill informed officer reflects badly on the overwhelming majority of quality officers.

 

On a humorous note:

Driving to CAS event, lots of guns and ammo onboard.  Suicidal deer jumps into my grill and trashed the radiator.  I am dead in the water.  AZ Highway Patrolman shows up and investigates the wreck.  Tow truck arrives along with my friend Joe, we then begin to remove the CAS accouterments and put them into his SUV.  Mr. Highway Patrolman sees lots of cool guns, he gets the tour of the guns and gear and is still shooting CAS.  I love AZ.  Keep them out of sight, be polite and be respectful. 

 

Add to this that when things go wrong. DO NOT confront the officer.  Document everything and let your lawyer handle it. Makes for a more harmonious outcome.

[bgavin]

19 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

Throw a blanket over the gun case in your back seat. Don't consent to a search. Done.

 

But a good point.

Yep.

 

I figure it would probably get sticky if the cop asks point blank if you have firearms in the vehicle.
I drive a Tacoma access cab, and put my case(s) behind the seat, covered fully with a packing blanket.

 

If they want to search my vehicle, I will surrender my time and insist they get a warrant and probable cause.

I won't lie to the cop if he asks, but that does put me into a spot.

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

16 hours ago, Hashknife Cowboy said:

Keep them out of sight, be polite and be respectful. 

 

I was stopped years ago for a minor speed violation in CA and within the cup holder was a Colt Armorers coffee mug, pre Yeti mugs.  The Officer told me to exit the vehicle because he was going to search the vehicle based upon a Colt mug, stating I was obviously a "gun guy."  Before this got out of hand I displayed my law enforcement credentials from AZ and politely told him to re-think this.  At the time I was a Detective Lieutenant.  He rethought this order and began to apologize profusely.  Lets just say we had quite the discussion and with letters to follow to his Commanders. 

 

I have been retired for quite sometime and and support the efforts of our men and women in LE.  It is a difficult job when done correctly, done incorrectly and bad things follow.  To add comment to the video, how many women carry within a purse with a built in holster.  Does the 4th Amendment apply to purses, how big a search could this become?   Ladies how personal are the contents within your purse, I refer to my wife's purse as the abyss for a reason.  Something to ponder....

 

Support our  police, support higher standards in education and in character.  Sadly one ill informed officer reflects badly on the overwhelming majority of quality officers.

 

On a humorous note:

Driving to CAS event, lots of guns and ammo onboard.  Suicidal deer jumps into my grill and trashed the radiator.  I am dead in the water.  AZ Highway Patrolman shows up and investigates the wreck.  Tow truck arrives along with my friend Joe, we then begin to remove the CAS accouterments and put them into his SUV.  Mr. Highway Patrolman sees lots of cool guns, he gets the tour of the guns and gear and is still shooting CAS.  I love AZ.  Keep them out of sight, be polite and be respectful. 

Damn good example of why I will never again go to California.  My first encounter of this type was in Anaheim, way back in 1976.....the Bicentennial year. 

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Damn good example of why I will never again go to California.  My first encounter of this type was in Anaheim, way back in 1976.....the Bicentennial year. 

I have had. Police in CA ask to search my car after a traffic stop. I asked “What is your probable cause for requesting the search?”

Almost every time they stood and glared at me while I sat and stared at them smiling. This resulted in no search. 
Once an officer said “You were speeding.” And I was.

I said “What judge will give you a warrant for the reason that I was speeding?”

”Who said anything about a judge?”

”Well, I just mentioned it because there is no way in hell you’re searching my truck without a warrant.”

He gave me my ticket and away I went. 
 

Just know that nearly every time I have ever denied their attempts at searches I sat for anywhere from 15-30 minutes longer because I was being time punished by the butthurt cop. 
Do not lose your patience. 

[Windy City Kid]

3 hours ago, bgavin said:

Yep.

 

I figure it would probably get sticky if the cop asks point blank if you have firearms in the vehicle.
I drive a Tacoma access cab, and put my case(s) behind the seat, covered fully with a packing blanket.

 

If they want to search my vehicle, I will surrender my time and insist they get a warrant and probable cause.

I won't lie to the cop if he asks, but that does put me into a spot.

 

Your answer should simply be, I don’t answer questions

[John Kloehr]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot said:

Just know that nearly every time I have ever denied their attempts at searches I sat for anywhere from 15-30 minutes longer because I was being time punished by the butthurt cop. 
Do not lose your patience. 

Agree, and have had the same experience.

 

Far fewer times once I got older, but any traffic stop could take a while when I was younger, and in California.

[John Kloehr]

3 hours ago, bgavin said:

Yep.

 

I figure it would probably get sticky if the cop asks point blank if you have firearms in the vehicle.
I drive a Tacoma access cab, and put my case(s) behind the seat, covered fully with a packing blanket.

 

If they want to search my vehicle, I will surrender my time and insist they get a warrant and probable cause.

I won't lie to the cop if he asks, but that does put me into a spot.

 

I have had good luck with self-declaring, but I'm now in East Tennessee, not Memphis. In these parts, letting the officer know you have a valid carry permit and armed (don't say gun) might turn a ticket into a warning. Or into nothing but a short and cordial discussion. It tells the officer you are not the 'droid they might be looking for.

[bgavin]

I have no desire for a CCW permit here in CA.
However, I shoot every week and carry various arms in locked cases in the access cab of my truck.
All are fully covered by packing blankets.

 

But... I don't know what to say if asked the direction question "do you have any firearms in the vehicle."
This is a Catch-22 at this point.

 

[John Kloehr]

37 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I have no desire for a CCW permit here in CA.
However, I shoot every week and carry various arms in locked cases in the access cab of my truck.
All are fully covered by packing blankets.

 

But... I don't know what to say if asked the direction question "do you have any firearms in the vehicle."
This is a Catch-22 at this point.

 

California has no Duty To Inform at the state level and also does not have preemption. It allows local jurisdictions (county, city) t pass firearms restrictions so there may be a patchwork requiring Duty To Inform. So that is the first thing to figure out for any drive to or from a range. Do you need to inform the officer in an official interaction?

 

Not sure how to not answer a direct question, I might go with "not on my person or in my reach." On follow up, maybe a clear statement like "properly unloaded and secured for transport to and from the range."

[Alpo]

Back 30 years ago it seems like every time a cop would stop you they would ask, "Do you have any drugs for weapons in the car?"

 

Isn't that a search? What I have in the car is nobody's business but mine.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

5 hours ago, bgavin said:

 

 

deleted

Edited December 18, 2024 by Dusty Devil Dale

[Rye Miles #13621]

I keep a snub nose .38 in my car in the console which is closed. I take it out when I go in somewhere. When I go to a cowboy shoot or the range my guns are in the back of my SUV in range bag, long guns in zippered cases. I’m not worried about it in Ohio. 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

My guns and ammo are all carried 100%  lawfully, locked in cases wherever required.  I have a California CCW license, which (in Ca) covers just about anything pertaining to a "handgun".  But the license also virtually guarantees that any LEO contacting me will directly ask if I have my weapon with me.  I will just respond truthfully if it ever happens --but it never has happened. 

 

If they want to search my vehicle (IF I am in my own vehicle with only my family, so I know for sure what is there and don't risk surprises) I will allow them to search.  It will be a work intensive and boring experience for them, as anyone who has ever looked in my vehicle would attest.  My reputation is to have just about any tool or instrument that anybody asks me for somewhere in the truck or van.   

 

I don't spend time worrying about being stopped, because I generally obey speed limits, stop at stop signs/lights and drive courteously.  I don't use or cary any alcohol or drugs except my personal meds.  Somehow in 65+ years of driving, I've not been stopped or had a vehicle accident.  I know the attorneys all say not to let an LEO search and don't say anything.  I've just not had a situation like that. 

A number of my personal friends are LEOs and I gather from them that an ounce of friendly cooperation and respect goes a long way toward getting back on your way. 

 

Understand that when an LEO  sees evidence of a firearm on a vehicle stop, they are trained that their life depends upon their awareness and control of that firearm.  So antagonizing them or appearing obstinate is probably not the best way to get them and you back on your way.   

Edited December 18, 2024 by Dusty Devil Dale

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Way back, I was at the range in Harvard, MA, showing my wife how to shoot CAS stages. A town cop car entered the bay and the officer asked if…… I had some jumper cables.

[Subdeacon Joe]

On 12/16/2024 at 7:29 PM, Hashknife Cowboy said:

The Officer told me to exit the vehicle because he was going to search the vehicle based upon a Colt mug, stating I was obviously a "gun guy."  Before this got out of hand I displayed my law enforcement credentials from AZ and politely told him to re-think this. At the time I was a Detective Lieutenant. He rethought this order and began to apologize profusely.  

 

This type of double standard irks me to no end. 

If he is going to search Joe Sixpack because of a coffee mug,  he should search John Law for the same reason.   If he goes, "Oh! Just kidding!  No need to search since you're part of the club." when a badge is flashed at him there was obviously no cause to search in the first place and Joe Sixpack shouldn't be subject to search.

[Alpo]

The way I read that was not that officer friendly changed his mind when he discovered hashknife was a fellow policeman. Professional courtesy kind of thing.

 

I read it as he changed his mind when he found out that hashknife was a fellow policeman who could and would complain to his Superior and get his ass in a sling.

 

Joe sixpack probably won't do that, and even if he does the superior probably would not listen.

 

When a "civilian"* complains about a cop, the cops don't pay a lot of attention. But when a cop complains about a cop, the other cops take it a little more seriously.

 

 

 

*I personally hate the term "civilian" as applied to normal citizens by the police. But they use the term constantly. Like they don't believe they are also civilians.

[Subdeacon Joe]

50 minutes ago, Alpo said:

 

I read it as he changed his mind when he found out that hashknife was a fellow policeman who could and would complain to his Superior and get his ass in a sling.

 

It still shouldn't make a difference. If one is justified,  so is the other  

 

50 minutes ago, Alpo said:

*I personally hate the term "civilian" as applied to normal citizens by the police. But they use the term constantly. Like they don't believe they are also civilians.

 

In this context I usually phrase it as "non-sworn citizen."  

I'm not a fan of it either,  but language seems to have evolved to class police as military.  

[Buckshot Bob]

34 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

It still shouldn't make a difference. If one is justified,  so is the other  

 

 

In this context I usually phrase it as "non-sworn citizen."  

I'm not a fan of it either,  but language seems to have evolved to class police as military.  

The way I have always heard it explained is if you are not subject to military justice you’re a civilian. Because you are then subject to the civil justice system. So to me if you’re not in the military that makes you a civilian. But most police officers don’t seem to identify as civilians .

So if a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man or a dog or chicken I guess a police officer can be what they want to be . 

[John Kloehr]

Police are civilians. They do have some immunity under color of authority when acting officially. Still are civilians.

 

I run into this mostly in car forums when discussing former police cars. I do not refer to non-police cars as "civilian," they are "consumer" versions. I'll explain this only if asked and it really is me making the point, the police cars are still civilian vehicles.

 

I also have spent an extra 40+ minutes at the side of the road for refusing a search. Standards have tightened a lot since then. And I no longer live in California. I also do back the blue.

[Subdeacon Joe]

8 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I also do back the blue.

 

As do I.  I've never had a negative professional encounter with one (as in the stories about traffic stops).  But in conversations when behind the counter helping out at the gun shop/indoor range I've seen the "you're just a civilian" attitude by a very few.  Especially when trying to impart some of the nuances of California gun laws. 99 44/100 were pretty down to earth and reasonable.  But, as in any largish population, there are going to be a few jerks.

 

 

[John Kloehr]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

...But, as in any largish population, there are going to be a few jerks.

True, and I recognize the same truth for those who officers pull over. Not to excuse jerk officers, I do not do so. Met a great officer at a (non-SASS) shoot a week ago, he took a weekend to run his car gun (AR-15) to failure and had problems during the competition. You can only run so many rounds with a suppressor before the  gun finally gunks up and won't run. This happened in the middle of his second case of ammo. Anyway, he was not a jerk. And a bit humbled to find problems did not come on slow, his gun just stopped cooperating at all. His life may depend on his arms.

[Subdeacon Joe]

32 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

This happened in the middle of his second case of ammo. Anyway, he was not a jerk. And a bit humbled to find problems did not come on slow, his gun just stopped cooperating at all. His life may depend on his arms.

 

If a LEO is in a situation where he's going through a case and a half of ammo something is seriously wrong.  

[watab kid]

a lot of mine are in backpack style cases as its how ive always transported , only my ramge shotguns were in the old style shotgun cases