Reloading Dies General Information Needed

[John Kloehr]

My google fu is failing. I'm probably not asking the right questions.

 

I am at this point leaning towards a Dillon press, which takes "standard" dies.

 

I'm still not sure what determines if a die is standard.

 

Seems to be carbide is better than steel, many dies not found in carbide.

 

First need will certainly be .44-40 and .44 Russian, but I have a list of dies I will eventually want for SASS and non-SASS purposes.

 

Please help me get up to speed so I can at least start asking intelligent questions.

 

I am planning to call Dillon later this week with a bunch of press questions and would like to get a little more knowledge on dies before doing so.

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

The "standard" die size is a 7/8-14. That is 7/8 inch diameter and 14 threads per inch. Almost every commercially available reloading machine, with the exception of the Dillon Square Deal, utilize this size. It means you can put 50 year old Brand X dies in a brand new Brand Z machine with few problems. I have a mishmash of dies in the tool heads for my Dillon 550 with great results. Dillon builds a great machine and has class leading service and support. There are other manufacturers out there but Im a Blue Guy.

44-40 will probably be a little more problematic than straight wall cases but not a major concern. Carbide just makes the process a little smoother,  but may not be currently available.

 

Imis  

JK PM me if you want to talk on phone

Edited December 15, 2024 by Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646

[Cholla]

Carbide dies are only for straight wall cases because they have a carbide ring inside. The ring does the sizing. Necked cases like the 44-40 is tapered so a ring won’t work. 

Edit: I am seeing carbide rifle dies offered. I assume the whole thing is machined from carbide. Their cost is double to triple that of regular dies.

Edited December 16, 2024 by Cholla

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Just about all of the answers to your questions are in this book:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Cast-Bullet-Handbook-4Th/dp/B004DWBKQY/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3C5RYOPGUMS53&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.UXPAkEze5FhFe-5pAHuNFxGvXQ1M9uPGfbEVOyxkwNcfH2sentSxJf6uUUNndz5a0nFIvN27u0P3_UwT4fWUHSOylTh2Rx7IOhnjQUrS7UVH58tNZY2UkMv0dj-JKDXg-hdawCDRKAavo3qIUc-QScDPW2BgGTrL1lyC-cDcO35m0AQI9dyebuB668oBrLARt8R8iNaT8PdbM675QMY2TA.TfB3003t282gmWDhYA-zq3eQDQwHCHF0ZjcTMK4nPtA&dib_tag=se&keywords=lyman+cast+bullet+manual&qid=1734305259&sprefix=lyman+cast%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-1

[Cholla]

Surely there is someone in your area that has a reloading room you can see and experience. I have four presses set up from single stage to Dillon 550s. I also have casting and powder coating set up. I have offered to teach local SASS shooters how to cast, powder coat, and reload. There has to be someone close that will do the same. 

[J.D. Daily]

Dillon's SDB press takes proprietary dies.  With the 550, 750 & 1050 presses dies Lee, Lyman, Redding, RCBS, etc. fit.  Some no Dillon dies you have to install locking rings on the underside of the tool head.   I recommend you buy a case feeder when loading case that are long as 45 Colt because ever 4 cycles of the lever you have to stop to refill the case feed tube.  The cost is worth it with the auto advance presses.  Every interruption in the flow is a point of failure. 

Except for a couple of bottleneck rifle calibers carbide dies aren't available.  Dillon has a carbide sizing die for 223/556. 

P.S.  I bought my press setup to reload 45 Colt and the case feed tube holds only fourteen 45 Colt Cases.  I bought a case feeder before the next session.

P.S. 223/556 is the only time I stuck a case in a sizing die.

P.S. Unless I am reloading more than 200 cases I use a single stage breech lock press.  The time required to change calibers on my XL650 isn't time efficient.  I have a tool head with dies for each caliber I reload on the XL650, both large & small primer systems and both large and small powder bars each with Arredondo micrometer powder drop conversion. 

[Rip Snorter]

9 minutes ago, Cholla said:

Surely there is someone in your area that has a reloading room you can see and experience. I have four presses set up from single stage to Dillon 550s. I also have casting and powder coating set up. I have offered to teach local SASS shooters how to cast, powder coat, and reload. There has to be someone close that will do the same. 

Usedta be - these days, not so much.  Keeping a low profile may avoid unpleasant visitors.  One now closed local gunshop offered classes for free, had a full setup with several presses - I don't think they had 5 folks in a year and a half.

[El Sobrante Kid]

If you want more information you can go to the Dillon Precision website VIDEO page. Pick the press you are interested in getting and look at the available videos. Everything from "Unboxing and Initial Setup" to "Troubleshooting Problems". As noted, carbide dies are usually only available for straight walled cases. I reload 44-40 and have never found a carbide die setup. The only thing that really changes (without carbide) is that you HAVE TO use a case lube. Hornady One Shot seems to be the preferred commercially available lube (the RED can, NOT the black can). Get some books; the Lyman books are a great start.

 

There are many, many threads on this site about reloading for CAS. The SASS Wire search tool leaves a lot to be desired, but give it a try. One of the biggest issues currently is finding a steady supply of components. You will need cases, primers, powder, and bullets (as well as the press and the caliber specific dies). The cases and bullets will require a "what kind" decision, but will be pretty easy to find. The primers are offered by a limited number of companies and are in and out of stock on a regular basis. Prices are just starting to come down from the COVID highs. Most people seem to like Federal primers because they are the easiest to set off, but other brands can work well. Powder is also problematic. Most of the powders that are currently available are "newer" powders, not the tried and true powders that most CAS shooters have been using for decades. The older powders (Unique, Red Dot, 700x, Clays, etc.) are almost unobtainium on a regular basis. You will have to do some homework, head scratching, and decision making to come up with the powder(s) you want to try. A good starter powder would be Titegroup, but it may not be the best. I have a decent 44-40 Titegroup load, but I'm looking into using Ramshot Competition to see what it can do.

 

And, very, very, important, reloading is actually fairly straightforward, BUT, the huge caveat is that you have to pay attention to every single little detail at all times while you are reloading. Being distracted while reloading is putting your fingers, hands, eyes, and those around you, at serious risk of injury. Reloading is fun, it saves you a LOT of money, and you can build a load that works best for you, and your guns. GL!

[Sedalia Dave]

Important tip for reloading 44-40 and 38-40.

 

If the case mouth is dented or out of round, You have to make it round before attempting to resize it. I do this by inserting a short tapered mandrel that I made by by cutting off a tapered round punch so that I could push the case mouth over it to remove any deformities.

[Shepherd Book]

Just an observation for what little it might be worth but I reloaded pistol and rifle cartridges in multiple calibers for forty years on an RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press.  Started CAS three years ago and upgraded to a Dillon 550.  Absolutely love it!  Reload multiple pistol calibers...no rifle yet, and still have the Rock Chucker for smaller batches...20-50 rounds.  You will very quickly appreciate your Dillon press.  Enjoy!   SB

[Frontier Lone Rider]

17 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Important tip for reloading 44-40 and 38-40.

 

If the case mouth is dented or out of round, You have to make it round before attempting to resize it. I do this by inserting a short tapered mandrel that I made by by cutting off a tapered round punch so that I could push the case mouth over it to remove any deformities.

This is true, but I use a pair of needle nosed or tapered jaw pliers which work for me.

[El Sobrante Kid]

1 minute ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

This is true, but I use a pair of needle nosed or tapered jaw pliers which work for me.

 

Agreed. Anything metal, with a rounded edge and a smooth surface, should work.

[Kid Rich]

We have seven presses set up in our loading room. Included is a Lee single stage press and an old Lee turret that is used for precision rifle loading.  I use different brand dies for different calibers, doesn't make much difference which ones you use. I would not be without a single stage press. They have many advantages, such as loading a few test rounds without changing over a press that is used for hundreds of rounds in a session.

kR

[Ya Big Tree]

When sizing 44-40 cases you'll need a good case lube to keep from crushing them. I have found that Sharp Shoot R Royal Case Lube (at Midway USA) to work the best. 
Hornady One Shot still let them get crushed when I tried using it. I haven't tried any others types of lube since using the Sharp lube.

[Griff]

The most important answer you received was from Abilene Slim.  I'd buy that book, then any other reloading manual you run across.  Reading is Fun!  Plus, as a side benefit, you learn so much!  Relying on the generosity of others, is opening up yourself to being duped.  Caution is warranted... you're about to embark on an adventure in making small explosive charges... Your safety and that of those around depend on the care you take in making cartridges.  

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

The most important answer you received was from Abilene Slim.  I'd buy that book, then any other reloading manual you run across.  Reading is Fun!  Plus, as a side benefit, you learn so much!  Relying on the generosity of others, is opening up yourself to being duped.  Caution is warranted... you're about to embark on an adventure in making small explosive charges... Your safety and that of those around depend on the care you take in making cartridges.  

 

Birdshot, one of Hodgdon's ballistic consultants once cautioned a fellow on this Wire that his handloads could turn his long gun into a "shoulder-mounted pipe bomb."  Many gun shops and shooting ranges have firearms on display that were destroyed by overcharged rounds or squibs.  Some on this Wire have posted pictures of their personal disasters.  Buy quality reloading manuals and read and re-read them.  Test any advice you get on this Wire against the published information.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

The biggest issue I see with 44-40 thin walled cases is making sure they go into the sizing die straight and also the expanding die.  Be careful not to crimp to heavily as you can bulge or wrinkle the case.  A factory crimp die can be very helpful.  The newer Lee 44-40 dies the seating die only seats the bullet without crimping, that is left to the included factory crimp die.

[Will Kane]

On 12/16/2024 at 6:35 AM, Ya Big Tree said:

When sizing 44-40 cases you'll need a good case lube to keep from crushing them. I have found that Sharp Shoot R Royal Case Lube (at Midway USA) to work the best. 
Hornady One Shot still let them get crushed when I tried using it. I haven't tried any others types of lube since using the Sharp lube.

Another good choice is homemade case lube consisting of 1 part lanolin to 10 parts isopropyl alcohol. A couple or three misty squirts out of a spray bottle into a gallon zip log bag goes a long way.

[Old Man Graybeard]

On 44-40...make sure your expanding plug is the same as the bullet you are using. The newer 44-40's use 44 mag barrels...which need a .430 bullet to be their most accurite. The expanding plug in most dies is .427. You will crush cases. I put a .430 expanding plug in my dies and don't have any problems

["Big Boston"]

On 12/15/2024 at 5:38 PM, Cholla said:

Surely there is someone in your area that has a reloading room you can see and experience. I have four presses set up from single stage to Dillon 550s. I also have casting and powder coating set up. I have offered to teach local SASS shooters how to cast, powder coat, and reload. There has to be someone close that will do the same. 

 

I've also helped a few beginning reloaders. IMHO nothing beats experience, and the experience of someone showing you and coaching as you run through each step will give you a really good jump start on the game. 

 

I'd like to add a comment to the "Standard Die" comment. At some juncture along the way, the reloading world standardized the thread size for most reloading dies. IOW, as has been stated, most dies come standard with 7/8-14 threaded dies. That is where the standard part stops. There are many differences in dies, including the internal dimensions, different decapping pins and/or rods, different expanding dies and plugs, and even different metal alloys for the "Carbide" part of the die. 

 

IOW, some dies are better made tools for the job they have to do. Yes, they will have the same thread on the outside, but the rest if the die is not standardized. Most often, a die set is a die set in the broad sense, but the small differences can make a huge difference. 

 

My second thought is concerning 44-40 and the beginner reloader. In a way, when you start reloading for 44-40, you basically become a beginner reloader again. I'll assume that you have at least one rifle and two hip guns in 44-40. That is 13 chambers in all. And because the 44-40 is a bottle necked cartridge, and not straight walled cartridge, it is different. It is also rimmed, so the headspace is accomplished with the rim, unless the shoulder is not set back somewhat during the reloading process , and then it headspaces on the shoulder. Revolvers do not handle shoulder headspaced cartridges very well. If you are lucky, the die you buy will do a proper job of sizing, and what I've just said will seem like Bull Snot. I did write a short article on reloading the 44-40, it's a bit dated now but if you read it you'll get an idea on what to look out for. 

 

Handloading the 44 WCF.pdf 

 

I wrote that about 5 years ago, and since then I've discovered a few more nuances and how to overcome the issues that come along with those nuances. 

 

But from experience, the Dillon 550 is a good go-to for the average cowboy. If you shoot more than most, an upgrade to a automatically advancing progressive is in order. (the 550 Dillon is a manually advanced progressive, basically an ungraded turret press) Which of the progressives is the best is beyond my experience, I just keep adding another 550 if it's needed. IMHO, if you shoot cartridges and one has small primers and the other has large, you'll want two 550s. 

 

BB