CEO killed

[Widder, SASS #59054]

9 hours ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

Gun Jesus says it's not a B&T9

 

 

If I'm ask, I'm gonna tell the reporter that it looks like a BR-549.

 

..........Widder

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

If I'm ask, I'm gonna tell the reporter that it looks like a BR-549.

 

..........Widder

 

You mean this? 
 

https://countryreunionmusic.com/junior-samples-big-fish-and-br-549/

[Rye Miles #13621]

The Mangione family 

 

https://nypost.com/2024/12/10/us-news/inside-luigi-mangiones-family-of-beloved-baltimore-royalty-its-a-shock-for-all-of-us/

[Rip Snorter]

No sympathy for a back shooter assassin.

[John Kloehr]

I'll reserve judgment on a number of items including if the firearm was 3D printed or just obscure, and if the shooter had a home-made suppressor or if it was  stolen or if it was registered to him. The press is running wild with conjecture. The gun grabbers will run with it no matter what the facts are.

 

The writing was on cases, it does look like three cases had writing. One of the cases was a complete unfired round. The writing was three words, part of a common phrase used in reference to health care, except the shooter wrote "depose" and the phrase contains "defend."

 

As to calling him an experienced marksman for his apparent skill dealing with his apparent repeated firearms failures, an experienced shooter would not have used an unreliable arm. An experienced marksman shooting someone in the back would not have put a round into the victim's calf.

 

Since I will not be called up for jury duty in that jurisdiction, I do not need to remain impartial or avoid pre-judgement. Assuming the right guy got arrested, I am OK with death penalty if available or life in prison without possibility of parole if not.

 

Yes, our health care systems has problems. This was not the way to address them. This was a criminal act at the highest level.

Edited December 11, 2024 by John Kloehr

[watab kid]

On 12/5/2024 at 12:20 PM, Cypress Sun said:

My gal made me watch some "highlights" of a show on something called News Nation and a show called Ashley Banfield. It featured a pair of so-called gun experts.

 

One of them (the guy on the left of the woman) declared that there was a difference between a "suppressor" and a "silencer". Beyond that, he did not demonstrate any other expertise but at least he did not demonstrate any unsafe actions.

 

The guy on her right (some guy named Steve Wolf) demonstrated complete, idiotic, unsafe handling of firearms. Using live ammo, he repeatedly chambered live rounds into (what appeared to be) a SIG firearm....with his left hand in FRONT of the muzzle of the firearm. Any REAL firearms expert would have used overtly obvious dummy rounds to demonstrate the same actions.

 

IMO, the shooter was clearly an amateur and not a professional "hit man"...or woman. The show's so-called "expert" was not a professional either. Jeez, where do they get these people.

 

 

you have been proven correct - not a pro ., a freeking kid with a manifesto that seems a bit unhinged 

 

we shall see on the 3d printing of the gun and silencer but it functioned well enough to kill and the LEs that arrested him are calling it a ghost gun 

Edited December 11, 2024 by watab kid

[Still hand Bill]

22 minutes ago, watab kid said:

you have been proven correct - not a pro ., a freeking kid with a manifesto that seems a bit unhinged 

 

we shall see on the 3d printing of the gun and silencer but it functioned well enough to kill and the LEs that arrested him are calling it a ghost gun 

It does appear to be a 3d printed chassis for a Glock style pistol.  Not really that hard to do.  
 

I am more interested to see how he got the silencer.  As someone who has gone throught the process it has been quite long until recently.   Also it has to go through a background check with the fbi, not a simple nics  check.  Thus any background 
check obviously won’t stop someone.  If home made it just shows how laws making things “illegal” don’t stop them from being used.   The silencer had no effect on the lethality of the attack and probably made it less so as the gun jammed repeatedly, probably due to not having a booster.  

Edited December 11, 2024 by Still hand Bill

[John Kloehr]

1 minute ago, Still hand Bill said:

... has to go through a background check with the fbi, not a simple nics  check.

As I understand it, the check is no different than a NICS check except each step is run individually. The big speedup in approvals for individual purchases came about from doing all the steps in parallel rather than one at a time. So now approval comes when the longest step is completed manually rather than the total time to complete all steps in sequence manually. Still the same check as far as I know.

 

Purchases into trusts still take a lot of time due to having to review the trust, even if the word-for-word identical trust has already been reviewed thousands of times for previous purchases.

[Eyesa Horg]

Just saw on the news that he's charged with second degree murder in New York. Why wouldn't it be first degree, seemed pretty planned to me?

[Rye Miles #13621]

4 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Just saw on the news that he's charged with second degree murder in New York. Why wouldn't it be first degree, seemed pretty planned to me?

Right I agree!!

[John Kloehr]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Just saw on the news that he's charged with second degree murder in New York. Why wouldn't it be first degree, seemed pretty planned to me?

Details of the law for first degree murder:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.27

 

First degree murder has additional requirements not met in this shooting. The victim was not law enforcement or a first responder, no bystanders were killed, not part of another crime, was not a murder for hire, or the other specific elements.

 

The only possible angle I see would be terrorism, it it can be shown he intended to cause fear in the population. At least in the population of health insurance CEOs.

 

Second degree murder:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.25

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I would hope that a janitor in the company would get the same amount of police concern as the CEO.

[Eyesa Horg]

14 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

Details of the law for first degree murder:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.27

 

First degree murder has additional requirements not met in this shooting. The victim was not law enforcement or a first responder, no bystanders were killed, not part of another crime, was not a murder for hire, or the other specific elements.

 

The only possible angle I see would be terrorism, it it can be shown he intended to cause fear in the population. At least in the population of health insurance CEOs.

 

Second degree murder:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.25

I've always been under the impression that a "planned" murder, was 1st degree. I'm now enlightened, thank you John.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

1 minute ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I've always been under the impression that a "planned" murder, was 1st degree. I'm now enlightened, thank you John.

Different states see it differently.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

Details of the law for first degree murder:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.27

 

First degree murder has additional requirements not met in this shooting. The victim was not law enforcement or a first responder, no bystanders were killed, not part of another crime, was not a murder for hire, or the other specific elements.

 

The only possible angle I see would be terrorism, it it can be shown he intended to cause fear in the population. At least in the population of health insurance CEOs.

 

Second degree murder:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.25

So okay I hate my neighbor, we’ve had several arguments over a fence, loud music at parties, friends of his parking in my driveway etc. I decide I’m going to kill him! I wait until he comes home and I come up behind him in his driveway snd shoot him in the back. That’s not first degree murder? 
(BTW this is hypothetical, I actually like my neighbor and we get along well 😂)

[Eyesa Horg]

Laws seem to be in favor of the thug. Even second let's them off with a good mental excuse. Like Luigi's bad back I bet.

[Rye Miles #13621]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+is+first+degree+murders+mean&ia=web

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

I would hope that a janitor in the company would get the same amount of police concern as the CEO.

 

I looked to see how many people were specifically murdered by being shot in NYC on the same day as the CEO. Six were killed in subway incidents and 5 were shot/killed. I seriously doubt that the other 4 that were shot and killed on the same day as the CEO got anywhere near the same level of investigation or concern.

[Eyesa Horg]

2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+is+first+degree+murders+mean&ia=web

Not in NY apparently. Check out Johns post above. Amazing new knowledge to me. Just gotta be sure your victim isn't a first responder of some sort. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

10 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Not in NY apparently. Check out Johns post above. Amazing new knowledge to me. Just gotta be sure your victim isn't a first responder of some sort. 

New York sucks!

[John Kloehr]

21 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

So okay I hate my neighbor, we’ve had several arguments over a fence, loud music at parties, friends of his parking in my driveway etc. I decide I’m going to kill him! I wait until he comes home and I come up behind him in his driveway snd shoot him in the back. That’s not first degree murder? 

Not in New York. But if before killing him, you torture him, then it is first degree. If he is LE or a first responder, it is first degree. If the bullet in your neighbor's back goes through and strikes another person or your stray bullet strikes another person, it is first degree. If there is a witness and you also kill the witness, that does it too.  What else did I see... If you are robbing your neighbors house and he walks in on you and you kill him, that is first degree.

 

Basically first degree is a bunch of aggravating factors. New York has 12 levels of criminal cause of death:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/P3THA125

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

https://www.findlaw.com/state/ohio-law/ohio-first-degree-murder-laws.html

Just now, John Kloehr said:

Not in New York. But if before killing him, you torture him, then it is first degree. If he is LE or a first responder, it is first degree. If the bullet in your neighbor's back goes through and strikes another person or your stray bullet strikes another person, it is first degree. If there is a witness and you also kill the witness, that does it too.  What else did I see... If you are robbing your neighbors house and he walks in on you and you kill him, that is first degree.

 

Basically first degree is a bunch of aggravating factors. New York has 12 levels of criminal cause of death:

 

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/P3THA125

 

New York is crazy. 
 

https://www.findlaw.com/state/ohio-law/ohio-first-degree-murder-laws.html

[John Kloehr]

And in other news...

• Shooter is fighting extradition to New York claiming they arrested the  wrong guy
• He presented officers with a fake New Jersey ID with the same name presented at the New York hostel on a New Jersey ID
• He had a 3D printed firearm and a 3D printed silencer on him at the time of arrest
• Casing ballistics from the scene match the gun
• His fingerprints match prints on a water bottle and food wrapper found at the crime scene
• He was carrying a 3-page "manifesto" singling out large corporations

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Has been upgraded to First Degree Murder. Prosecutor intends to show that it was an act of terrorism.

[John Kloehr]

Also hear Federal charges are pending. Defense attorney intends to introduce potential double jeopardy challenges but the courts have long ago determined overlapping jurisdictions are each entitled to their own remedies for any particular act.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

8 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Has been upgraded to First Degree Murder. Prosecutor intends to show that it was an act of terrorism.

Yep saw that. Agree with premeditated. 
So why aren’t ALL murders where someone threatens the other, then kills them, considered terrorism? What makes this different? Honest question. 
Regards

    
Gateway Kid

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

2 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Yep saw that. Agree with premeditated. 
So why aren’t ALL murders where someone threatens the other, then kills them, considered terrorism? What makes this different? Honest question. 
Regards

    
Gateway Kid

States Rights …. Getting 50 states to agree on legal standards is about as hard as getting 50 cowboys to agree on anything

Edited December 19, 2024 by Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Okay that makes sense. But what defines terrorism. Shooting in the back?

The wording of the threat? Killing in public? Cause a lot of those actions occur in a “normal” murder but I have never heard of bangers doing a drive by being charged as terrorists. 
Trying to understand why not because it seems the discretion to charge is pretty arbitrary. 
TIA

    

Gateway Kid

[John Kloehr]

23 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Okay that makes sense. But what defines terrorism.

An action intended to instill fear in a particular population. In this case, it seems to be CEOs of large corporation. Have not read the shooter's "manifesto," don't think it has been released but it supposedly cites CEOs in general.

[Cypress Sun]

40 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Yep saw that. Agree with premeditated. 
So why aren’t ALL murders where someone threatens the other, then kills them, considered terrorism? What makes this different? Honest question. 
Regards

    
Gateway Kid

 

Because nobody gives a rat's a** about Joe Schmo....especially the press.

Gotta fit the agenda.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I was curious if this killer was related to trumpet great Chuck Mangione. Thank God he’s not!

 

https://www.distractify.com/p/is-luigi-mangione-related-to-chuck-mangione

[watab kid]

extradited to new york , but seems the feds have charges as well for terrorism , will be interesting to see this unfold , bragg would actually have a criminal to prosecute here , we shall see , 

 

i still have questions about the "ghost gun" stuff , so far im not buying it 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

52 minutes ago, watab kid said:

extradited to new york , but seems the feds have charges as well for terrorism , will be interesting to see this unfold , Bragg would actually have a criminal to prosecute here , we shall see , 

 

i still have questions about the "ghost gun" stuff , so far im not buying it 

 

You mean, instead of political harrassment, he'd have to go after a real, honest-go-gosh bad guy??  His head's gonna explode!